Regarding NYTE and the MK Ban (DECISION FINALIZED! PLEASE READ 1st POST!)

Nicknyte · Oct 17, 2011

Result of thread here: http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=14005787&postcount=0

Before I start, I will politefully ask my Melee Brethen to not troll, demean, or underrule this topic. I am very serious about this, and I would like some respect with this. Its rather important to me. Basically, if you come in here saying "You shouldn't have Brawl at all," I will just ban you from NYTE, and be done with you. Period. (Really, I will. You can appeal it by writing a 1 page double spaced essay in MLA format explaining why The Brawl community deserves to be a legitimate community compared to Melee with 2 work cited references.)

Anyway, if some of you may know, the Unity ruleset has permabanned MK after Jan 9th, after Apex. This directly affects NYTE, since the tournament currently is supposed to be done with the unity ruleset. I have gotten notices from other smashers across the country asking for MK to be legal in this tournament, including M2K himself. I understand the MK players postition. I would not favor having my favorite character, Luigi, banned for any reason, just because he would be better than the rest of the cast, especially if I like the character because he is just friggin awesome and I am a fan of it. This is how we pick characters. Although I mainly come from the Melee side, each of the players in AZ have characters we play from our hearts. I with Luigi, Vectorman with Yoshi, Taj with Mewtwo, Silly Kyle for Peach, and Axe with Pikachu. We wouldn't want these characters to be banned one day and honestly, I feel that it isn't fair.

Likewise, I think MK is a over powered character. He has not real competition except Diddy, and only a few players in the Brawl community know how to play Diddy enough to actually fight against him. It's tough. I know, but if there is one thing the Arizona Brawl community has been able to handle, is the onslaught of Metaknights that tend to enter the state. Although Darklink here is our #1, Silly Kyle beats him in tournaments as well, and he's our #2, and he plays Peach of all characters. We know how to get around it.

I won't say if I am for or against the ban. I will say I understand that the overpopulation of MK's by those who do not actually like the character but use him to just win, ruins the spirit of the game, and in fact, screws up with the metagame. Instead of versatility, we have MK and the rest of the cast. If you take a look at Gen2's or Pound5's Top 25 lists, you can see why the ban was in consideration in the first place. I can't believe that that many people want to play MK for real, instead of for victory. There is nothing wrong with trying to win at any means necessary, but the community is getting saturated with it.

This is where you come in. NYTE is a regional, not a national, or intercontinental, or international (although Mexico might come). It is mainly for the Southwest communities of Texas, the 4 Corners states, and OK. I wan't to hear your opinion on this. I want to know if the Southwest wants MK, or doesn't, because the decision could come from me, but I don't want to hold anything without the Southwest Brawl community's thoughts on it. In January, after Apex, I will hold a poll to see if you guys want to have MK banned at NYTE, and thats when I will have my decision, but for now, I want your guys opinion.

TL;DR: Do you think MK should be banned at NYTE, and why?

ForteFreak · Oct 17, 2011

I personally believe he should be banned because sadly from what I see, most MK players play him when they lose with their main, or just because their main has a bad match up. As you stated, the reality is that most players don't play MK cause they're a "fan", but because they want an easier win. There is no character that can't in reality win against another. If you switch to MK just because you're scared you might lose with your main, that is a cowards move, and an insult to the other player you're playing.

My proposal for NYTE is, although it may seem a little unorthodox, is register for every player before the brackets go up(or just before anybody starts playing), a main, and a secondary. They can pick between those two on their matches, and no others. This is really the only way I would agree to having MK legal. And most people really only have 1-2 characters they would seriously consider playing in a competitive tournament anyways. If that can't become a reality, as that is really my only beef with MK, than I say we keep him banned.

Nicknyte · Oct 17, 2011

Can't say I agree with that proposal, because some people wouldn't want a restriction to just 2 characters if they can play with 5 different ones depending on the situation (Like I can in Melee).

SFA Smiley · Oct 17, 2011

No. It's a slap in the face of anybody who put time into learning MK and getting good with him. There's always going to be a best character, MK is definitely beatable... especially by the gayer high tier characters. It's hard but he's the best character, that's how it's going to be. That doesn't mean he should be banned though.

@Chris: That's WAY too extreme and limits counterpicking. And you honestly think that'd generate less MKs? I guarantee most people would put theyre main and MK as secondary if they were limited to 2. I'd do it :troll:

Nicknyte · Oct 17, 2011

SmileyFace =) said:
@Chris: That's WAY too extreme and limits counterpicking. And you honestly think that'd generate less MKs? I guarantee most people would put theyre main and MK as secondary if they were limited to 2. I'd do it

I totally would myself :troll:

ForteFreak · Oct 17, 2011

SmileyFace =) said:
No. It's a slap in the face of anybody who put time into learning MK and getting good with him. There's always going to be a best character, MK is definitely beatable... especially by the gayer high tier characters. It's hard but he's the best character, that's how it's going to be. That doesn't mean he should be banned though.

@Chris: That's WAY too extreme and limits counterpicking. And you honestly think that'd generate less MKs? I guarantee most people would put theyre main and MK as secondary if they were limited to 2. I'd do it

Yeah, I know it's pretty extreme, that was just my condition for me giving my vote for a anti-ban at NYTYE. And as I said, I don't mind there being a lot of MK players, I don't have an issue with that. I just hate that people fall back on him is all.

Nicknyte · Oct 17, 2011

Yea. I got 17th at the last tournament because people switched to MK mid game (of course, they both gave me mad props for having an amazing Luigi) I lost, but I was quite flattered.

TommyDerMeister · Oct 17, 2011

I want the to see the King of Mews in AZ, don't ban MK

Nicknyte · Oct 17, 2011

They want to get rid of my Avatar. Apparently, they can't see the Watermelon bikini under the shorts. I think I need to make that Avatar bigger lol

DerpDaBerp · Oct 17, 2011

Don't ban MK

1. Unity is not absolute. Whether or not results from this tournament are recognized by whatever ranking system or whatever the URC governs, this is to be a regional tournament for the sake of cash prizes and good times, no? No URC required.

that being said
2. Allowing MK means attracting a large amount of people who would otherwise not find it worth it. Yay entrants.
-It might be argued that allowing MK will repel players who were looking forward to not having to deal with him. But honestly, if they don't like MK that much, have they been biding their time not entering anything just waiting for a ban to take place? No. They enter tournaments regardless. Nyte will be no exception.

and just a thought
3. I think having the hype of being one of the first major regionals to openly defy the ban would also attract many people and give rep to yourself and AZ

Mike2 · Oct 17, 2011

100% in favor of the ban.

Nicknyte · Oct 17, 2011

Mike2, I would like your reason why he should be banned, opposed to a 10- word sentence XD

@Derp, Being the first major regional to openly defy the ban sounds like a big deal to me (and a potential money maker).

DerpDaBerp · Oct 17, 2011

And his title has MK written all over it lol

Mew2King · Oct 17, 2011

ill 100% come to AZ one last time if you don't ban him for that event.

plz don't be a unity drone

TommyDerMeister · Oct 17, 2011

Nicknyte said:
They want to get rid of my Avatar. Apparently, they can't see the Watermelon bikini under the shorts. I think I need to make that Avatar bigger lol

Did they ask you to change your (my, lol) Snake/ZZS avatar? I had it originally like a year ago and they asked me to change it. But I've now added it back into my rotation of avatars. I should increase the size of that one too.

Go big or go home.

Shockna · Oct 17, 2011

1000% pro-ban.

MK being legal not only makes it infinitely more frustrating to play (See: Akuma in ST, Justice in GG, Shao Kahn in MK9, etc), but also drains all interest as a spectator.

My opinion isn't particularly important though, really. I won't be participating as I'll be about 3000 miles away at that time. >_>

Strong Badam · Oct 17, 2011

comparing MK to Akuma in ST just shows your scrubby ignorance. Akuma can't be dizzied by any of the cast (which in that game is pretty important; it lets you reset your combo/do the same combo again allowing double damage) and has no drawbacks. and his worst matchup is 60-40 in his favor.

Nicknyte · Oct 17, 2011

Strong Bad, keep your name calling (scrubby ignorance) and your SF out of here. Personally, I'd like this thread to pertain to my tournament's rules, not your attitude when you read something you don't agree with. I see your point SB. Tho, you aren't really Southwest XD

Tee ay eye · Oct 17, 2011

he's disagreeing vehemently with the argument put forth by shockna, saying MK is nowhere near as bad as shockna is saying that he is.

he can't disagree with shockna's argument about MK being as bad as akuma in ST without talking about ST.

i'm anti-ban

Nicknyte · Oct 17, 2011

Why are you anti-ban Tai? Also, do you play Brawl Tai? XD

Strong Badam · Oct 17, 2011

i'm going to NYTE tho nicknyte and I compete very seriously in Brawl, therefore it affects me greatly.
& i was calling his ignorance scrubby, not him. [/umad?]

Nicknyte · Oct 17, 2011

I never actually knew that SB, but its alright. I was mainly trying to get a southwest opinion honestly. Adam, are you really going to behave that immaturely with a "U Mad" quote? For shame. I had some respect for you. :troll:

Also

Strong Bad said:
i'm going to NYTE tho nicknyte and I compete very seriously in Brawl, therefore it affects me greatly.

Shockna · Oct 17, 2011

Strong Bad said:
comparing MK to Akuma in ST just shows your scrubby ignorance. Akuma can't be dizzied by any of the cast (which in that game is pretty important; it lets you reset your combo/do the same combo again allowing double damage) and has no drawbacks. and his worst matchup is 60-40 in his favor.

I'm familiar with the mechanics of ST, thanks.

MK has -zero- bad matchups, and they only favor him more as the metagame evolves (I'd wager if the ban doesn't hold, he'll be considered to be at least 55-45 with everybody, if not 60-40). The point is, MK has practically no drawbacks either, and those that do exist are drowned by his strengths to the point where they may as well not exist.

Either way, when a single character in a roster of 36ish gets 20% of players using him, and almost 50% of all tournament money, and several rules and surgical limits need to be added just to keep him legal, I'd say claiming he's not boss level bad is delusional. You can say that he is beatable, and sure, it's possible. But it's also possible to beat Justice in GG:AC, but she's damn well not tournament legal. Just because "it can be done", doesn't mean it's permissible to allow broken characters.

Never did quite understand the logic behind being dogmatically against character bans; keeping MK has zero positives, and the sad state of the current Brawl metagame proves that quite handily.

Nicknyte · Oct 17, 2011

Honestly, I am really ignoring the opinions of trolls (Strongbad) and people who don't actually play Brawl (Tai) or those not in the region. SB doesn't play Brawl actually, so ignore him as you will :D

Jane · Oct 17, 2011

gah, i can't post my full opinion right now, don't have the time... but i will do something quick.

i believe metaknight should be banned at NYTE.

and now to quickly address some anti-ban arguements in the thread:

"slap in the face to all MK mains" - well, yeah, but the fact of the matter is people voted for a ban and an overwhelming majority were in favor. the emancipation proclamation was a slap in the face to sugar and tobacco farmers, but that's a bit irrelevant when the majority wants change, is it not?

"he's definitely beatable" - i am not to passionately pro-ban because mk is "not beatable." as a matter of fact, i have lots of fun in the MK matchup. the problem is that mk has a ridiculous amount of advantages; only drawback being he can die kind of early. but when you look at his stupid amounts of advantages, THAT is why i, and many others, chose to ban. not because he is not beatable. he is certainly beatable.

"don't ban him because M2K" / "don't ban him because it'll attract more entrants" - this is the best argument as far as NYTE is concerned. and i can see why you would allow him simply because it will instantly mean M2K and that means more potential entrants. i still disagree, and believe that the more MK-banned tournaments there are, the faster everyone will get used to it. NYTE would be the first ever regional mk banned tourney in the southwest, ever, and i was quite excited for that. but, again, i understand your qualms elvis, and will understand your position should you choose to keep mk legal.

"unity is not absolute" - unity was never absolute, and i don't think anyone ever thought that. unity is meant to UNITE as many tournaments as possible--certainly not all of them, but as many as possible. by 76% of the voting population voting for the ban, it shows that unity (as a concept) is still very possible.

well... that wasn't very quick. and now i'm late. xD

lusiris · Oct 17, 2011

You should allow MK purely on the basis that it will draw more people because it will draw big names such as M2K. As a TO you want to make a big impact and draw as many people as possible so to cover your costs and to create the opportunity to impress as many people as possible with the professionalism of this event.

Failie · Oct 17, 2011

Since I'm being extra nice this upcoming weekend to make sure the tournament can happen and that I get to spend time with my dear friend Ganny, I feel I have the right to say my 2cents.

Strong Bad said:
comparing MK to Akuma in ST just shows your scrubby ignorance. Akuma can't be dizzied by any of the cast (which in that game is pretty important; it lets you reset your combo/do the same combo again allowing double damage) and has no drawbacks. and his worst matchup is 60-40 in his favor.

Personally, I have to agree. Comparing any character in smash, let alone Brawl of all games to actual fighting games is just silly and never a valid argument. I think everyone's misunderstanding the point of the ban. It's not that Metaknight is unbeatable, it's that 50% or more of your average tournament turnout plays him. Which I can understand is very frustrating. However, I feel it's silly to ban a character because MORE PEOPLE play that character, than the rest of the cast.

I'll be quite honest and blunt here. The problem is not the character.

THE PROBLEM IS THE COMMUNITY

I mostly play standard fighting games now a days other than Smash, and you know what we do when we encounter most of the community using top tiers? We deal with it. The Brawl community, honestly is just silly when it comes to characters. Instead of taking the time and devotion to learning the game and it's matchups, they default to the E-Z Mode-O Broken character. Which in a normal case of a normal game, wouldn't be a problem because there are very few games that just have that one character which you can jump to to win with. The better player will win the bad matchup. You'll have to work harder, but you should still be winning.

If you look at people who don't play Metaknight, the actual GOOD players who have learned their character, know the matchup. They figure out how to deal with MK. How to fight him and how to counter him. People need to stop being babies about it and learn the damn game. So what if the majority of the population plays him because he's easy? If you're the better player, prove it.

People who pick Metaknight because they want to win, are just being smart. There is nothing wrong with picking a good character because you want to win. People that don't pick him and complain, need to take the time to learn to fight it before they just cry and whine. I don't care what the matchup is, I don't care what advantage he has over your main, you PICKED THAT MAIN, knowing you'd have bad matchups. You'll never be professional, if you sit and complain about a game mechanic, for the game that you're playing.

DEAL WITH IT.

Not that this will change anything, but seriously people, stop it.

bubz · Oct 17, 2011

elvis youre the tourney host. you dont have to follow the rules. if you have to ban a character in a game then the game shouldnt even be competitive in the first play. IMO i think you should have him be legal. theres already enough rules for brawl why make it more complicated right? lol

Mike2 · Oct 17, 2011

bubz said:
theres already enough rules for brawl because of metaknight why make it more complicated right? lol

Actually this

Nicknyte · Oct 17, 2011

Failie said:
Since I'm being extra nice this upcoming weekend to make sure the tournament can happen and that I get to spend time with my dear friend Ganny, I feel I have the right to say my 2cents.

Personally, I have to agree. Comparing any character in smash, let alone Brawl of all games to actual fighting games is just silly and never a valid argument. I think everyone's misunderstanding the point of the ban. It's not that Metaknight is unbeatable, it's that 50% or more of your average tournament turnout plays him. Which I can understand is very frustrating. However, I feel it's silly to ban a character because MORE PEOPLE play that character, than the rest of the cast.

I'll be quite honest and blunt here. The problem is not the character.

THE PROBLEM IS THE COMMUNITY

I mostly play standard fighting games now a days other than Smash, and you know what we do when we encounter most of the community using top tiers? We deal with it. The Brawl community, honestly is just silly when it comes to characters. Instead of taking the time and devotion to learning the game and it's matchups, they default to the E-Z Mode-O Broken character. Which in a normal case of a normal game, wouldn't be a problem because there are very few games that just have that one character which you can jump to to win with. The better player will win the bad matchup. You'll have to work harder, but you should still be winning.

If you look at people who don't play Metaknight, the actual GOOD players who have learned their character, know the matchup. They figure out how to deal with MK. How to fight him and how to counter him. People need to stop being babies about it and learn the damn game. So what if the majority of the population plays him because he's easy? If you're the better player, prove it.

People who pick Metaknight because they want to win, are just being smart. There is nothing wrong with picking a good character because you want to win. People that don't pick him and complain, need to take the time to learn to fight it before they just cry and whine. I don't care what the matchup is, I don't care what advantage he has over your main, you PICKED THAT MAIN, knowing you'd have bad matchups. You'll never be professional, if you sit and complain about a game mechanic, for the game that you're playing.

DEAL WITH IT.

Not that this will change anything, but seriously people, stop it.

OH. MY. GOD. You actually created an account to say your opinion, Ryan. I gotta say, I appreciate your input. BTW, if anyone didn't know, I am Ganny he is talking about XD In all due honesty, I remember when people complain that Sheik was too broken, and then how much they wanted to rid of her back in 2007 back when the community was Marth heavy, due to Ken. Hah. There is obvious issues to the community, but I really think comparing smash to other fighting games, is a bad decision.

Jane · Oct 17, 2011

Failie said:
Personally, I have to agree. Comparing any character in smash, let alone Brawl of all games to actual fighting games is just silly and never a valid argument.

i know, right? never a valid argu--

Failie said:
I mostly play standard fighting games now a days other than Smash, and you know what we do when we encounter most of the community using top tiers? We deal with it.

--wait wha?

Nicknyte · Oct 17, 2011

I think Jane caught you in a contradiction Ryan, would you like to retract your testimony? :D

-ShadowPhoenix- · Oct 17, 2011

Anti-ban.

I want to play M2k

Strong Badam · Oct 17, 2011

Shockna said:
MK has -zero- bad matchups, and they only favor him more as the metagame evolves (I'd wager if the ban doesn't hold, he'll be considered to be at least 55-45 with everybody, if not 60-40). The point is, MK has practically no drawbacks either, and those that do exist are drowned by his strengths to the point where they may as well not exist.

the fact he has no bad match-ups is largely irrelevant. it just means that MK is the best character which we all know. yawn.
and then you go onto hypotheticals which you have not the credentials to do so. For example, the following statement counters yours since you didn't add any support or evidence to your claim:
I'd wager that if the ban doesn't hold, the metagame will advance and MK will gain some disadvantageous match-ups, if not several.

Shockna said:
Either way, when a single character in a roster of 36ish gets 20% of players using him, and almost 50% of all tournament money, and several rules and surgical limits need to be added just to keep him legal, I'd say claiming he's not boss level bad is delusional. You can say that he is beatable, and sure, it's possible. But it's also possible to beat Justice in GG:AC, but she's damn well not tournament legal. Just because "it can be done", doesn't mean it's permissible to allow broken characters.

His popularity and success in tournament are irrelevant and don't prove that he's broken. His popularity proves that he's popular. His success in tournament proves that he's the best character, which we all know very well.
The LGL is largely unjustified in and of itself (there was only one case of high level play where planking was even useful, Will vs. Rich Brown, and it's beatable), and allowing ******** stages such as Rainbow Cruise, Frigate, and Brinstar for so long when it was clear that doing so would only increase MK's ability to perform well in tournament seemed like a ploy to make MK seem more broken and effective than he really was.
Even banning IDC before it was abused in tournament was incredibly scrubby. Melee doesn't ban Fox's standing infinite (waveshine -> dash -> jc shine -> wavedash back) because no one can use it. I highly doubt anyone could abuse IDC outside of waiting out respawn invincibility, so banning it is pretty stupid.

Comparing him to Justice is the same as comparing him to Akuma. Justice was not intended to be used competitively and is supposed to be broken to pose a challenge to the player against the AI. In a player's hands, he doesn't even have even match-ups. Eddie has no disadvantageous match-ups, but does that make him broken? No. People still win tournaments with Jam, even Chipp, because player skill is more of a factor than character at top level.
Contrarily, MK is a character selectable before you even unlock anything and was clearly intended to be used.

Shockna said:
Never did quite understand the logic behind being dogmatically against character bans; keeping MK has zero positives, and the sad state of the current Brawl metagame proves that quite handily.

This just isn't a very convincing argument at all. Keeping MK has the obvious positive of preserving more of Brawl by not banning a part of Brawl, and leaves the game in a state closer to its out-the-box settings. There are toggles for items, and stages, but not a toggle for characters.

The only case where a ban should be used is when two criteria are met.
1. All of the top level players agree that the character is broken, and the character is so good that the top 32 of every tournament would be that character. This is clearly not the case when DK and ZSS players are placing at nationals.
2. The quality of the game is so high without said character that banning it is worth it. This is not the case with Super Smash Bros. Brawl.

Let me know when you have a more convincing argument bro.

Failie · Oct 17, 2011

Nicknyte said:
I think Jane caught you in a contradiction Ryan, would you like to retract your testimony? :D

Nah, I wasn't comparing gameplay. I was comparing the mentality of competitive gaming, which can be applied to just about every genre. The point is: If you're going to play a game competitively, expect the competition to do what works best. Not use bad strategies. It's the mentality of every game. Play to win, or go home. If you're good enough and dedicated enough to win with your favorite character, awesome. If you're gonna be a tier ***** and play top tier, deal with it.

In short: Stop complaining and learn the game, or find a new one. It's every players own responsibility to know how to fight Metaknight. There's no reason to ban him just because he's the best.

No ones going to get better at the game if you appeal to the cry babies who don't want to learn their game.

Jane · Oct 17, 2011

ok, stop being a crybaby. hear you loud and clear. what about the fact that 76% of the voting community voted in favor of a ban?

maybe we really are just a bunch of crybabies, but when the community wants something that overwhelmingly, it should be done.

all of the people that are against it should just pipe down, and watch the mk ban either be a failure, or be a success. the problem is that the brawl community has never had a significant amount of time (half a year or more) to gather data regarding how a mk ban would affect the tournament scene.

would the top characters diversify into a pool of core group top tiers? or would marth/falco singlehandedly take metaknights place?

would some lower tiered characters see a significant rise? such as peach and toon link? or would the tier list hardly change at all?

and most importantly, after a significant time period, how would the community feel about the enjoyment level of the game with metaknight gone? and then, we can have another community vote on whether mk should stayed banned or if we really did blow him up to be something he's not.

but these are questions we can't really answer accurately NOW. like i said, we need a signinficant amount of time of mk ban to really know. this is why i would prefer elvis to follow protocol - so we can pile up the data. the more mk ban data the better, especially at a regional. this is not about me being sad i can't beat metaknight. i suck **** at this game with or without the bat; i know this, i accept this fully. this is not about a desperate attempt to make the game easier for myself, this is about the possibility of playing a more fun game.

Nicknyte · Oct 17, 2011

Jane said:
all of the people that are against it should just pipe down, and watch the mk ban either be a failure, or be a success. the problem is that the brawl community has never had a significant amount of time (half a year or more) to gather data regarding how a mk ban would affect the tournament scene.

This is why i would prefer elvis to follow protocol - so we can pile up the data. the more mk ban data the better, especially at a regional. this is not about me being sad i can't beat metaknight. i suck **** at this game with or without the bat; i know this, i accept this fully. this is not about a desperate attempt to make the game easier for myself, this is about the possibility of playing a more fun game.

Jane, this discussion is to see the side of the anti-ban side, and the pro-ban side. If I didn't want to hear their opinion, I would have never made this topic to begin with. Likewise, I am not going to be tied down to "protocol". Genesis 2 did not follow protocol when it came down to stage selections and counterpicks either. I can decide to keep MK or Not, and I would like to see the SOUTHWEST community discuss the pros and cons of why he should be legal or not. Although 75% of the community said they wanted MK banned, on what basis is that? A forum's? That doesn't work with me. I want to know my communities' input with respect for each other, not by telling MK supporters to pipe down. They have a voice, they are the minority, and they deserve a chance to speak up, even when no one is with them. As politefully as I can say this, Jane my good friend, Protocol does not mean **** to me.

On an honest note, the game is fun, but on a competitive level, its business first, and fun on the side. I am sure a lot of us have fun at tournaments, but we do go to try our best, and ultimately, win money. Ryan, win and go home is an obvious answer. And we could all play MKs to fight other MKs. But, I think that is not how it should be. I think we should play the characters we like, and try our best to win. I do think if someone is losing to a character, then they should pick up a character (or in this case MK) to defeat them. Honestly, I could learn MK fine, and still play weegee, but even for a silly game like Brawl, people still have pride, and that goes with everyone. I will play Weegee, and even if I lose, I am contempt knowing I tried my best with him. I think Jane is thinking about the community in this aspect, but overall, it is still unfair to the 25% that actually cares for MK.

The problem is with the community, we all know Ryan, but if the community wants MK Banned, what do you think they should do? (Stop playing Brawl is not an acceptable answer, although tempting)

Jane · Oct 17, 2011

Nicknyte said:
Jane, this discussion is to see the side of the anti-ban side, and the pro-ban side. If I didn't want to hear their opinion, I would have never made this topic to begin with.

of course. i know fully well you want to hear both sides opinions. i was simply stating mine. no need to reprimand me, haha.

Nicknyte said:
Likewise, I am not going to be tied down to "protocol". Genesis 2 did not follow protocol when it came down to stage selections and counterpicks either. I can decide to keep MK or Not, and I would like to see the SOUTHWEST community discuss the pros and cons of why he should be legal or not.

i understand completely. all i was saying is "this is why you SHOULD follow protocol," not "follow protocol or you are a bad person" or anything of that sort. again, just stating my argument.

Nicknyte said:
Although 75% of the community said they wanted MK banned, on what basis is that? A forum's? That doesn't work with me. I want to know my communities' input with respect for each other, not by telling MK supporters to pipe down. They have a voice, they are the minority, and they deserve a chance to speak up, even when no one is with them.

put simply, on the basis that they don't want to deal with metaknight, for different reasons i'm sure. i can't speak for the entire 76%, only my own viewpoint.

i have full respect, for most of the entirety of the community, even if i've never heard them say a word. just because i used the expression "pipe down" doesnt meant i lack any sort of respect. honestly, i thought using that expression would've lightened the mood a little, if anything. here, i'll rephrase for you:

all of the people that are against the ban should quit making all that racket, and just try something different.

Nicknyte said:
As politefully as I can say this, Jane my good friend, Protocol does not mean **** to me.

understood. and like i said in my previous post, if you choose to keep him unbanned, i realize why you would do so, and would not criticize you for your decision. these are not easy choices to make at a time like this.

Nicknyte · Oct 17, 2011

Ok. I still love you Jane <3

AeroLink_the_SoulMaster · Oct 17, 2011

This tournament was planned ahead of time before the MK ban, with the expectation that MK would be legal; MK should remain legal if the protocol doesn't mean anything to you.

Personally, I'd go with the protocol, seeing as rules are rules, and you are using the Unity Ruleset. If you keep MK legal, then you are not using Unity rules.

I'm fine with whatever decision you make regarding NYTE.

Regarding NYTE and the MK Ban (DECISION FINALIZED! PLEASE READ 1st POST!)

Smash Lord

Smash Rookie

Smash Lord

The SFA King

Smash Lord

Smash Rookie

Smash Lord

Smash Lord

Smash Lord

Smash Champion

Smash Ace

Smash Lord

Smash Champion

King of the Mews

Smash Lord

Smash Cadet

Super Elite

Smash Lord

Smash Hero

Smash Lord

Super Elite

Smash Lord

Smash Cadet

Smash Lord

Smash Hero

Smash Apprentice

Smash Rookie

Smash Rookie

Smash Ace

Smash Lord

Smash Hero

Smash Lord

Smash Bash

Super Elite

Smash Rookie

Smash Hero

Smash Lord

Smash Hero

Smash Lord

Let's rock, baby!

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