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Ledge Technique

Yo$himan

No More Free Jumps!
Joined
May 24, 2009
Messages
254
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Bethlehem, Pennsylvania, United States of America
In don't know if anyone has discovered this yet, but I figured I should put it out here anyway. If you have time please give this a try and let me know if you can do it. Unfortunately, I have no way to record right now, let alone upload a video.


Ok, I found some cool things with falcon today when I was playing by myself. So I found a way to instantly pivot on a ledge consistently. Here is how to do just that. While you are dash dancing with falcon and when he pivots to run the opposite direction, he is in a moon-walking position. In order to run off an edge and pivot at the same time, you must hit the edge with that moon-walking position. This kind of tech skill is in the fox level, because it varies depending on how far you are from the edge and how fast you pivot. I have accomplished this at least 5 times in a row before. There is also a frame where you can fall off without pivoting, which means no horizontal movement. The point of this is to mind game your opponent.

Another cool trick, which you guys might already know about, is ledge-canceling falcons forward-b on a platform. If you forward-b a split second after you fall off a platform falcon will ledge cancel the other side. What makes this cool is you can do it multiple times in a row. I've pulled it off 7 times in a row back and forth until I messed up.

Here's where it really gets cool. I eventually got the idea to combined the two tricks above, but I only got it to work once for me. What I did was, run off the top platform on dreamland -> forward-b ledge cancel off the other side -> pivot when I ledge canceled into a falcon punch with no horizontal movement onto the bottom platform. It sounds cool, but it looked even cooler. This is ridiculously hard to do, but it's just a testament showing how hard falcon is.

Anyway, decided to try out this technique with other characters and it works wonderfully. Although, the characters that I think will have the most use of this is sheik and Ganon, because of their large powerful forward airs. I think the easiest character to do this with is Sheik, because she has a very specific frame for dash dancing.
 

Lovage

Smash Hero
Joined
Apr 15, 2007
Messages
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STANKONIA CA
ya this is called pivot dropping

it's very hard and pretty inconsistent because it can only be done from certain distances from the ledge (depending on character)

funny you just made this thread, cuz i've been getting pretty good at it recently. i've started to be able to recognize certain distances where i can pivot drop from, it's still really difficult because you gotta execute your pivot at the perfect time to drop to the ledge.

http://youtu.be/E-3z7a7OEBI
http://youtu.be/zxBBCNHlTJk
 

Yo$himan

No More Free Jumps!
Joined
May 24, 2009
Messages
254
Location
Bethlehem, Pennsylvania, United States of America
I've actually been doing this accidentally a lot since I started playing melee, because I have a bad habit of dash dancing near the ledges. I finally got tired of dying, because I kept pivot dropping into a fast falling knee, so I decided to mess around for a few hours to figure this out and this is what I came up with. But ya, it's really hard for the reasons that you said. I have a feeling that this will be able to change meta-game in the future.

Since I only just started to work on this, I haven't thought about drop zoning with it like in your first clip. I thought it was pretty cool and sexy. It's time for me to put in about 1000 hours of training to be able to do that on command. I plan on messing around a lot with this to see what else I can come up with.

Here's an idea: (on yoshi's story)

down throw pivot drop zone up-air fox from one of the side platforms -> falcon grabbing the edge -> back-air or something.

not sure if falcon can grab the edge from that, but he still might be able to back-air or knee since he didn't use his jump.
 

Bones0

Smash Legend
Joined
Aug 31, 2005
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11,153
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Jarrettsville, MD
Ledge shines are so much easier. lol

Does the distance you start the dash from even matter? I've always just assumed it was a simple matter of sliding off on the pivot frame.
 

Lovage

Smash Hero
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my knowledge is based on an old magus post and magus = GOD


jk, someone should test this with dolphin/ar. just savestate falcon in the various positions and see if he can pivot drop from all of them or only some of them
 

Yo$himan

No More Free Jumps!
Joined
May 24, 2009
Messages
254
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Bethlehem, Pennsylvania, United States of America
I just have to throw this out there real quick before I go to sleep.

I was practicing the idea I posted earlier, but instead of grabbing the edge I landed on Randel and dash attacked fox to his death.


--Maybe with sheik, you can downthrow pivot drop into a back air if they DI off the stage.
 

Acryte

Smash Ace
Joined
Mar 30, 2005
Messages
986
yea. Its difficulty means that for most characters they have equally effective and more consistent options
 

Yo$himan

No More Free Jumps!
Joined
May 24, 2009
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Bethlehem, Pennsylvania, United States of America
yea. Its difficulty means that for most characters they have equally effective and more consistent options
I disagree with the equally effective part. I think it will ether be more or less depending on the character. Yes sheik could be boring and just forward-air off the ledge, but she also has the other option and different situations call for different options. I know most people are willing to chalk this up to pointless tech skill, but there is no pointless tech skill as long as you can apply it correctly. Sure, it's really hard, but you just have to practice it to perfect it and if you practice long enough it can be just as consistent as other options.
 

Magus420

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The distance CF slides from a pivot is at best (when dash is fully accelerated) like 80% the distance he travels each frame of dashing. You also need a bit of space between where you input the pivot and the edge so that you can be on the stage during the pivot for at least 1 frame (if the slide from the 1st frame of pivot puts you over the edge you go into fall without having turned around). You're left with around 60-70% of the possible distances from the edge allowing a pivot drop with him. That's why it's starting distance dependent, even with perfect timing. Dunno about other characters.
 

EthereaL

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Sep 10, 2011
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Lost in Thought
By the way, the "there are better options" argument holds true for edgeguarding generally, but it's still one more tool you can use if perfected. There will be situations in which it would be useful.

Also, it's distance dependent to an extent. You have to allow yourself one frame on-stage to turn around before you slide off. Your starting position / character / dash speed at your pivot influences when this is.

Pretty much like learning the distance for ledge-canceling Falco's versus Fox's SBs, but different for every* character.

*I.E. most. I think some overlap, or the difference is negligible.

Edit: Damn it, I should read the entire thread before I post. Thanks Magus.

:phone:
 

azianraven

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Mar 13, 2007
Messages
342
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Gainesville, FL
I believe this is colloquially know as the PC drop.

Regardless, this tech is cool as **** and I can never do it consistently blah.
 

DtJ Jungle

Check out my character in #GranblueFantasy
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I thought the PC drop was walking and turning around, which is much easier to do
 
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