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Mole Maniacs: Muddy Mole for SSB4 DLC

Opossum

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Thanks to N3ON for the awesome banner.






He's a character everyone will dig.

He hasn't been seen in 15 years.

He's defeated a Kangaroo, the Sun, a 100-ton Weight, a Giant Hedgehog, a Plumber, two Sumo Bros, a Snowman, and an Evil Farmer.

He's Muddy Mole.



Background

Now, Muddy Mole, for those of you who don't know, comes from a charming little Game Boy game called Mole Mania. Mole Mania was basically a Puzzle-Adventure Game where Muddy threw iron balls at gates to traverse the land looking for his family members, who were stolen by the evil farmer, Jinbe.

Now, Mole Mania got pretty good reviews, but it faded into obscurity once Pokemon came out and dominated the Game Boy market. Since then, Muddy Mole has yet to make any other game appearances.

Why Muddy Fits the Bill as a Smash Character:

Now, ever since Melee, Sakurai has added retro characters that people would either remember from the good ol' days, or scratch their heads at, going, "Who is this?"

In Melee, he added the Ice Climbers, and in Brawl, he added Pit (at the time he was retro, he's obviously not anymore due to Uprising.).

Now, Sakurai has stated in an interview (still trying to locate this one...) that character inclusion must follow 4 basic guidelines...

1. The character's inclusion must make people want to play the game.

2. The character must be unique.

3. The character must fit into the style of Super Smash Bros.

4. They must contribute to the game balance​


I'm just keeping this here for future reference. Now, Muddy Mole has an ability in Mole Mania that makes him a force to be reckoned with: digging.

This can easily translate well into Smash, which I'll get to later on. No other character can do this, so it is unique.

This may also make people want to play the game, as the new mechanic is bound to have fans.

One interesting fact about Muddy Mole is that he was made by Shigeru Miyamoto, i.e., the same man who made Mario, Link, Donkey Kong, Fox McCloud, and Captain Olimar. I'd say he fits into the style fine.

For the game balance thing, you can easily make Muddy powerful without being overpowered, but I guess Number 4 is the responsibility of the production team.

Now, you may ask as to why Muddy over other retro characters. Well, in Melee, Sakurai dismissed some retro characters: Excite Biker, Balloon Fighter, Bubbles from Clu Clu Land, Sukapon, and Urban Champion, for various reasons ("Unable" to find a way for him to fight on a bike or jump, Wonders what he'll do if his balloons are popped, Couldn't figure out a way for her to fight, too complex, and "boring", per say, respectively.) Many, if not all, of these characters were more popular than the Ice Climbers on the Melee poll. However, Sakurai chose them because he saw them as original due to their Tag-Team style. For this reason, Muddy could be in due to his "unique" style.

To illustrate, I will preview my Muddy Mole moveset.

[COLLAPSE="Possible Moveset"]
Muddy Mole



A: Right Claw Swipe 2%
AA: Left Claw Swipe 3%
AAA: Alternating claw barrage. 2% per hit
A Side: Muddy does a small punch. Can be performed in quick succession. 8%
A Up: Muddy holds his hands up like a goal post and jumps up. 12%
A Down: Muddy gets low and kicks at the opponent’s feet. 14%
Dash A: Muddy does a leaping somersault forward. 13%

Smash Side: Muddy does a strong headbutt. 18%
Smash Up: Muddy spins upward corkscrewing his claws.22%
Smash Down: Muddy spins low to the ground kicking up a small wave of dirt to both of his sides. 20%

Air A: Muddy does a small midair cartwheel for weak damage. 5%
Forward Air A: Muddy slaps the foe weakly in midair. 4%
Backward Air A: Muddy roundhouse kicks in midair. 7%
Up Air A: Muddy sweeps his claws in an arc. 4%
Down Air A: Muddy kicks the opponent down with both feet. Meteor-Smash. 9%

Grab and Pummel: Muddy grabs the foe and knees them in the torso. 4%
Forward Throw: Muddy kicks the foe ahead of him. 10%
Back Throw: Muddy spins the opponent and throws them back, similar to Mario. 8%
Up Throw: Muddy digs under the foe and hits them with a tack from underneath, sending them upward. 15%
Down Throw: Muddy slams his foe into the ground, kicking up some dirt in the process. 12%

His Neutral B would be the iron ball. Press B once, and it spawns, and stays on the ground in front of you. You can keep it there, and it will act as an unbreakable wall. However, if you press B again when you are close to the ball, you can throw it at your opponent! It will be very slow and not very powerful at first, but if you hold B, Muddy will charge up the throw, increasing the speed, distance, and damage. However, if the opponent hits you during start up, you will drop the ball. The ball will eventually disappear if A.) Too much time passes without you throwing it, or B.) You hit the opponent. Only one Ball can be present at a time per Muddy Mole. It does 15% when pushed forward with no charge, 22% when charged. Going backwards, it does 20% uncharged, and 30% when charged.

His Side B will be the Hole Trap. Muddy would crouch low, dig a small hole, and then be able to leave the scene. The foe wouldn't know where the pitfall spot is, under normal circumstances. When it is stepped on, they fall into a pitfall. Muddy cannot get trapped by this move. So yeah, it's the pitfall item, essentially. Muddy can have up to two of these out on the stage at any given time. 0%

His Up B would be the cabbage jump. After Muddy Mole defeats a boss in his games, he saves one of his children, who pop out of a giant cabbage that falls from the sky, and leap up with a corkscrew-like jump. Muddy would essentially do the same. A giant cabbage would surround him, and he'd pop out using a Wario-like Corkscrew. If used in Midair, the cabbage will fall to the ground, potentially doing damage, and possibly a meteor-smash. When used on land, it disappears after use. I guess you can call it a mix between Wario's and Sonic's. 16% with the corkscrew, 10% if the cabbage hits you.

Muddy Mole's Down B would be Burrow. Going underground was key in Muddy Mole's adventures, so naturally Smash should reflect that. He would dig a hole, and go underground. If used on a passable platform, he'd fall through it. While underground, he can move around very fast, but at the expense of not being able to see where he is. By releasing B, he will pop out of the hole, causing minimal damage. However, you only have a three second time frame to stay underground, otherwise you are forcefully removed from the dirt. This would make up for Muddy's lackluster aerial game.

Finally, his Final Smash would be the Mole Family. When the Smash Ball is obtained, Muddy whistles loudly. His children and wife appear by his side and burrow into the stage. Going with Muddy's theme of stage control, his family makes the entire stage shake with violent tremors. To make matters worse, if the foe gets hit by one of the descending moles, they will be put into a Pitfall state. Every two or so seconds, the tremors cause 6% damage to any foe on the ground. Tripping is also slightly more likely. The effect only lasts for 15 seconds, but Muddy himself is free to move about and perpetuate the foe's agony by keeping them grounded. After 15 seconds, the family emerges. Muddy's wife puts the baby moles in their wagon, and they disappear.


Taunts: Up: He adjusts his sunglasses with a shine and smiles. (With the clichéd *ding* sound of course)
Down: He digs a small hole and pulls out a small cabbage. He proceeds to eat it.
Side: He holds out his paw and extends his claws.



Kirby Hat: Kirby dons a pair of shades and a handkerchief.

Codec Conversation: Snake: Colonel, who's the mole wearing sunglasses?
Colonel: That's Muddy Mole, Snake.
Snake: Never heard of him. He's probably no big threat.
Colonel: Be careful, Snake, Muddy here can do something that no one else here can do. He'll dig right beneath you and hit you from the other side.
Snake: That's pretty cheap, wouldn't you say?
Colonel: Coming from the man who's fighting a mole, while using a ton of explosives...just make sure to watch out, Snake.
Snake: What else is there to watch for?
Colonel: Besides digging, Muddy can also launch giant iron balls. And bombs, too.
Snake: ...Ugh.


Playstyle: Basically, Muddy Mole is your trap user to the extreme. Block off certain spots with the Iron Ball, dig underneath it, and hit the foes on the other side is a pretty good tactic. If time is running out on it, throw it for good damage. Being a mole, Muddy is best on the ground, of course. Many of his smashes and throws are powerful. That being said, if you’re playing Muddy in the air for any reason other than recovery, you’re using him wrong. Muddy is just plain bad in the air. Low fall speed, bad aerials, and semi-lightweight an aerial fighter does not make. All in all, Muddy is an interesting character to play as, and will leave the opponents guessing as to which move he’ll use next.
[/COLLAPSE]​


I'd say it's unique enough for Smash.

As another note, Muddy Mole has been rumored to have been liked by Sakurai, being on the infamous "Brawl Poll." Recently in an interview, his game was mentioned along with StarTropics and Ice Climber as far as retro series that could get representation, with Sakurai replying with something along the lines of, "I'll do my best to give older games and series fair representation." At the very least, he knows of Muddy's existence.


He'd also potentially bring along a nice stage to call home.


[COLLAPSE="Possible Stage: Jinbe's Farm"]
Okay, here goes my first promised attempt at a stage concept:






That's right, a Mole Mania stage for none other than Muddy Mole.

Stage Name: Jinbe's Farm
Stage Icon: A cabbage.

Layout:

__u__-----____J____-----__u__
.........l_______________l.........


Basically, it is a simple stage with walk off edges. Overall, the stage would showcase the Wii U's graphical capabilities, as the foliage, trees, and rolling hills in the background would be in an high definition autumnal setting. Based on my poorly shown layout, the top row of underscores are the basic ground of the stage. However, if you break the plots of tilled land (marked as ---s) then an underground path opens up, connecting the two plots.

Jinbe (Marked as J) realizes what happened after a period of time, and comes to the foreground to fix the plots. If you get in his way, you get minor damage from his hoe.

Cabbages, marked as "u", can be hit with a smash attack to uproot them. If you push them underground, they explode, leaving behind a healing item. This is a reference to Mole Mania's gameplay. This angers Jinbe, who comes to the foreground and chases whoever hurt the cabbage with his hoe. If he hits you, you take 20% damage and a bit of knockback. Jinbe can be defeated pretty easily, however. When defeated, he angrily returns to the background and starts to tend to his other crops in the background.


Music:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E1GFp23dF6I Mole Mania - Title Theme

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S3yf3g_THRw Mole Mania - Forest Theme

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A80dmIbJhX0 Mole Mania - Beach Theme

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NdTWVfN7ma0 Mole Mania - Snow Theme

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rlc43JuTdCk Mole Mania - Pipe Theme

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vfDFstihFZY Mole Mania - Boss Battle Theme

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zTMW0XPZM1g Mole Mania - Final Boss

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vShfrlIQ6mA Mole Mania - Credits Theme

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nYr0MYUaF-0 Mario Kart Wii - Moo Moo Meadows

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YUoswjz79lo Wii Play - Charge! (SSBB Version)​

[/COLLAPSE]​

And of course Muddy should bring along an Assist Trophy for his series!


[COLLAPSE="Assist Trophy"]
Assist Trophy: Kangaroon








Now, Kangaroon is the first Boss of the game. He attacks Muddy by jumping and crushing Muddy under his large feet. Muddy needed to push tacks under him three times while he was jumping to defeat him. As an Assist Trophy, Kangaroon bounces around the stage, being a head and a half taller than Muddy. If someone is underneath him, they get crushed and stay in a Pitfall state. It also does 15% damage per hit. The whole shebang lasts for about 10 seconds.​
[/COLLAPSE]


Also, have some color swaps, courtesy of Splat, who colored Fryguy64's work, who based it off of Young Horsetail's drawing. I take no credit.

[COLLAPSE="Color Swaps!"]



The second row is a colored version of the blue, green, yellow, and black swaps,in case you prefer Muddy colored along with his neckerchief. The one at the end of the first row is the pixelated Muddy from his in-game sprite. [/COLLAPSE]​

Now, many detractors of Muddy say that the retro spot is exclusive for one or two characters per game. This is usually followed by "Why Muddy over other Retros? I think *so and so* is more likely!"

Now, I'm of the belief that it isn't that exclusive, and more can be added if so desired, but under the premise of "one only," I would still choose Muddy. Why, exactly? I'll go through the dilemmas that other retros face, and in the end show why Muddy may top them in Sakurai's eyes. Keep in mind that I would like to see many of these characters more, and these are just my reasons as to why I think Muddy is more likely. This is in no way meant to bash the other characters or their support base. :D


[COLLAPSE="Retro Debates"]

Vs Little Mac Little Mac Confirmed. However, he may be seen as this game's retro, worryingly.

Simply put, with the new game, Mac's no longer retro, and therefore not a threat to Muddy. I only put him here for those who believe he still counts. They could easily coexist even under the premise that we only get one retro.



Vs Sheriff

I've seen this fella come up a few times. Many say that his claim to fame is that he's Nintendo's first character. Now, I've yet to find one that came before him, but that's not what breaks him as a choice. It's more of a question of originality, as they need to add something to the game. This may be seen as a problem, seeing as all you did in the game was walk slowly and shoot. I mean, they could go for a Cowboy inspired moveset with a lasso, gun, spurs, etc., but why would you go for a generic cowboy when Nintendo has a cowboy that can offer much more in Dillon's Rolling Western? Muddy at the very least has other things to offer.


Vs Prince of Sable Prince of Sable Disconfirmed.

Prince of Sable is an interesting case. For one, he has low popularity in the US at first, but then much larger support came for him after the false "Universe Leak." The main thing holding back Sable is the fact that he's an obscure Japan-only character. Sakurai is very wary about adding Japanese only characters. The Fire Emblem characters almost didn't make it to the American Melee...even after that, the only Japanese only character added was Lucas, from a series that in itself wasn't Japanese only. For the Frog the Bell Tolls is a one-game series that, while a cult classic, is largely unknown and exclusive to Japan.


Vs Lip Lip Disconfirmed.

Now, I'll start by saying that Lip is a choice that I like. That being said, I do not find her likely. The reasoning behind this is that, well, she is also kind of Japanese only, but in an arguably worse case than Sable. Her game was released in the US, but she wasn't. Yep, they removed all traces of Lip and the other fairies out of Panel de Pon and renamed it Pokemon Puzzle League or Tetris Attack (TBH I don't remember which...). For this reason, I find her unlikely. And there's the fact that even Sakurai mentioned her obscurity...


Vs Mach Rider

Mach Rider offers a bit of competition to Muddy, no doubt. Sakurai stated that he was his favorite character for "Smash 2" (this was pre-Melee). We managed to get his theme in Melee, and a trophy, but nothing else. In Brawl, the song was carried over and his trophy was ditched. What happened to Mach Rider? One can only guess. Many theorize that he was the 20th character Sakurai was going to add, before he decided on the six clones instead. Many also guess that due to his similarities to Falcon, he was originally going to be the Falcon clone before Sakurai realized Ganondorf's popularity. My only guess is that since Sakurai never spoke of him again, he only saw him feasible off the bike as a clone of Falcon. On the bike, Excite Biker was decided against for being unable to jump, or something similar. I assume he thought the same of Mach Rider.



In the Unlikely Case of Version Exclusives: Takamaru Disconfirmed.

In this case, I find that if retros are version exclusive, Muddy is a lock for the 3DS. I would also say that Takamaru would be the best bet for the Wii U. It would then be likely that you could transfer those characters to the other version. This would be a win win for the Muddy and Takamaru fans, but its chance of happening is rather slim.

And now, this is confirmed to not happen. :p
[/Collapse]

While here, you can discuss his moveset, chances, playstyles, music, stage, Assist Trophies, Role in the Possible Story Mode, and generally rally support for this old character of Nintendo's past.



Muddy Supporters

(ask to be added/removed. These are people who commented in support of Muddy and/or that I know think well of him.):

1. Opossum
2. Arcadenik
3. Yani
4. Shinhed-echi
5. Cider
6. GoldenYuiitusin
7. Lobotheduck21
8. The Drilling Juggernaut
9. 8-Peacock-8
10. Muddy Mole (he came to the thread! :D)
11. NoPLo
12. Ember Reaper
13. Robotic Wind
14. Inawordyes
15. Powerstars
16. Propeller Toad
17. 3Bismyname
18. grizby2
19. Zombie Baki
20. Kikwi-Kiwi
21. vicgur
22. MaskO'Gears
23. Young Horsetail
24. Ariand/AEM
25. Second Power
26. Louie G.
27. SuperBrawler
28. fogbadge
29. Golden Icarus
30. Louie G.
31. APC99
32. Sobreviviente
33. Keybladeguy
34. Crap-Zapper
35. KiraYoshikage
36. Crooner Mike
37. Fortanono
38. RadRedi
39. Zzuxon
40. BluePikmin11
41. Chase
42. domokl
43. Captain Mac
44. jigglover
45. Con0rrrr
46. smashkirby
47. GunGunW
48. Lucimar
49. Lizardon
50. continuityOfficer​


[COLLAPSE="Some Nice Fanart of Muddy and Jinbe"]

By Boshi00
by Hotfeet444




By fryguy64, the same guy who did the original color swap image.

[/COLLAPSE]
 
Last edited:

Arcadenik

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You got that Sundes Final Smash from me, didn't you? ;)
 

Opossum

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Reserved just in case. You never know if you'll need it.


Curse you Arcadenik! You ninja'd me! But yes. I believe I credited you. :D
 

Opossum

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I figure one more reserved post couldn't hurt. This is where I will post if any sort of update on Muddy or his chances comes out.

For starters:



Mole Mania Arrives on American 3DS Virtual Console


The famed Nintendo creator's 1997 puzzle game is the newest addition to 8-Bit Summer.

Mole Mania, a 1997 Game Boy game worked on by Shigeru Miyamoto, is coming to the 3DS Virtual Console tomorrow, according to Nintendo of America.

Mole Mania is part of Nintendo of America's 8-Bit Summer initiative, which began at the beginning of July. It is a puzzle game in which Muddy Mole must save his family from an evil farmer by maneuvering a black ball from screen to screen. It originally came out in Japan in 1996, and is one of Miyamoto's least known games.

Working with Miyamoto was Pax Softnica, a development studio that made Balloon Kid and Wave Race for the Game Boy prior to Mole Mania, and later worked with HAL Laboratory on Pokémon Snap. They also worked on the first two Mother/Earthbound games.

In addition to Mole Mania, Wario Land: Super Mario Land 3 is also coming out tomorrow.
http://www.nintendoworldreport.com/news/31159


Credit to StarPhoenix for the Above.


Mole Mania Heading to 3DS Virtual Console.

http://www.nintendolife.com/news/2012/06/mole_mania_digging_its_way_to_3ds_virtual_console

While seemingly insignificant, this may bring about some new fans for Muddy Mole. This in turn can raise his popularity and support.


Sakurai Interview Mentions Mole Mania

http://www.cubed3.com/news/16920

Adam Riley: You have mentioned how you like to breathe new life into forgotten franchises. Now that Kid Icarus has been completed, what other old classic would you like to look at? Ice Climbers, Star Tropics, MoleMania…or something non-Nintendo?

Sakurai-san: I am planning on doing my best to bring old characters back in Smash Bros. From that perspective, I am probably in the most fortunate position in the world.
That snippet. Not major news, but perhaps now he's thinking more of Mole Mania? It is definitely good, however, that he likes bringing back retros and plans on doing it again.






Rumor:


Sakurai Likes the Idea of a Playable Muddy?


http://www.hardcoregaming101.net/molemania/molemania.htm


I need to tread lightly with this one.

At any rate, this is actually pretty shocking as initial reports from Smash Bros. Brawl indicated Masahiro Sakurai as being interested in giving Muddy the full "playable character" treatment and even featured him as a selection on polls during the game's development period. However, even after those reports, Muddy failed to materialize at all in the final product.
Anyone remember that Brawl "Poll" that Sakurai had? Many places say that Muddy was mentioned once, but the nature of it was unknown. Being that the list is now lost, this very well may have been what was said.


Even though little goes against the theory, it is still unconfirmed, as the original source has yet to be recovered. I'll update this if I find out more. Nonetheless, it is interesting.







I'll keep everyone covered in case more news pops up.
 

yani

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Hopefully the game is coming to eShop soon like that site says. I'd love to finally be able to play it..

Muddy for Smash.
 

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Many sites reported on it, apparently. I only posted one to not be redundant. xD

It seems at this point confirmed anyway.

Let's just hope it bodes well for Muddy.
 

Jakor

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I think Muddy Mole would be interesting. If he doesn't appear as a playable character, then an assist trophy would be fine I guess.
 

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I'm hoping for at least AT status. I'm still hoping for him to be playable.



Also, if you would like to be added to the OP as a Muddy supporter, please say so.
 

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I can't believe I still haven't played his game, but Muddy Mole deserves to be in Smash.

As long as he's balanced properly of course. :D Which I'm sure they'll do anyway. I'm all up for retro additions, and this guy is particularly interesting.


BTW, totally love that moveset! Iron Ball will sure be really unique for against-wall combos.
 

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Thanks for that, shinhed! In other news, I have one idea for the moveset provided we get another Special attack like in Melee and Brawl.


New Special Idea

I dunno. Maybe it'll be a Touch/Shake Special.

Elbow Pipe: One part of Muddy's game involves traversing a level filled with pipes that redirect objects like Iron Wrecking Balls and Barrels. With the possible new Special attack, Muddy pulls out an Elbow Pipe. It essentially is a reflector, but can be carried around by Muddy, as well as dropped when needed. However, the move has a drawback: unlike the Iron Ball, the elbow pipe can be moved by the opponents and thrown off the ledge. A cool down time is needed if the pipe leaves. Only one Pipe can be in use per Muddy at a time.



I dunno. Anyone like this idea for a possible new Special? This is only provided that we get one in SSB4.
 

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Update:


I will update with an Assist Trophy for Muddy Mole.


Assist Trophy: Kangaroon








Now, Kangaroon is the first Boss of the game. He attacks Muddy by jumping and crushing Muddy under his large feet. Muddy needed to push tacks under him three times while he was jumping to defeat him. As an Assist Trophy, Kangaroon bounces around the stage, being a head and a half taller than Muddy. If someone is underneath him, they get crushed and stay in a Pitfall state. It also does 15% damage per hit. The whole shebang lasts for about 10 seconds.​




Any thoughts on this?
 

yani

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I like the Kangaroon assist trophy! I think more people will show interest in Muddy Mole when his game comes out on the VC (hopefully this month, since NoA is doing double VC games each week) :bee:
 

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I'm hoping it's this month. I don't have a 3DS yet, but when this comes out, I may finally decide to get it, along with possibly Uprising, Super Mario 3D Land, Pokemon Conquest, and/or Mario Kart 7, depending on my current amount of money. Either way it's a must-have in my eyes for a VC game.


Also, I updated the OP with some more issues, edited the format to make it pretty, and added a supporter list.
 

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I should probably keep up with my job of keeping this thread active. That being said, I wanted to do something like this.

Now, many detractors of Muddy say that the retro spot is exclusive for one or two characters per game. This is usually followed by "Why Muddy over other Retros? I think *so and so* is more likely!"

Now, I'm of the belief that it isn't that exclusive, and more can be added if so desired, but under the premise of "one only," I would still choose Muddy. Why, exactly? I'll go through the dilemmas that other retros face, and in the end show why Muddy may top them in Sakurai's eyes. Keep in mind that I would like to see many of these characters more, and these are just my reasons as to why I think Muddy is more likely. This is in no way meant to bash the other characters or their support base. :D


[COLLAPSE="Retro Debates"]

Vs Little Mac

Simply put, with the new game, he's no longer retro, and therefore not really a threat to Muddy. I only put him here for those who believe he still counts. They could easily coexist even under the premise that we only get one retro.



Vs Sheriff

I've seen this fella come up a few times. Many say that his claim to fame is that he's Nintendo's first character. Now, I've yet to find one that came before him, but that's not what breaks him as a choice. It's more of a question of originality, as they need to add something to the game. This may be seen as a problem, seeing as all you did in the game was walk slowly and shoot. I mean, they could go for a Cowboy inspired moveset with a lasso, gun, spurs, etc., but why would you go for a generic cowboy when Nintendo has a cowboy that can offer much more in Dillon's Rolling Western? Muddy at the very least has other things to offer.


Vs Prince of Sable

Prince of Sable is an interesting case. For one, he has low popularity in the US at first, but then much larger support came for him after the false "Universe Leak." The main thing holding back Sable is the fact that he's an obscure Japan-only character. Sakurai is very wary about adding Japanese only characters. The Fire Emblem characters almost didn't make it to the American Melee...even after that, the only Japanese only character added was Lucas, from a series that in itself wasn't Japanese only. For the Frog the Bell Tolls is a one-game series that, while a cult classic, is largely unknown and exclusive to Japan.


Vs Lip

Now, I'll start by saying that Lip is a choice that I like. That being said, I do not find her likely. The reasoning behind this is that, well, she is also kind of Japanese only, but in an arguably worse case than Sable. Her game was released in the US, but she wasn't. Yep, they removed all traces of Lip and the other fairies out of Panel de Pon and renamed it Pokemon Puzzle League or Tetris Attack (TBH I don't remember which...). For this reason, I find her unlikely. And there's the fact that even Sakurai mentioned her obscurity...


Vs Mach Rider

Mach Rider offers a bit of competition to Muddy, no doubt. Sakurai stated that he was his favorite character for "Smash 2" (this was pre-Melee). We managed to get his theme in Melee, and a trophy, but nothing else. In Brawl, the song was carried over and his trophy was ditched. What happened to Mach Rider? One can only guess. Many theorize that he was the 20th character Sakurai was going to add, before he decided on the six clones instead. Many also guess that due to his similarities to Falcon, he was originally going to be the Falcon clone before Sakurai realized Ganondorf's popularity. My only guess is that since Sakurai never spoke of him again, he only saw him feasible off the bike as a clone of Falcon. On the bike, Excite Biker was decided against for being unable to jump, or something similar. I assume he thought the same of Mach Rider.


Vs Takamaru

He is definitely Muddy's biggest hurdle. Takamaru's got many things going for him. Amazing moveset potential, popularity...except that he is also currently from a Japanese only game. Now, I know that Sakurai stated that if Takamaru ever gets another game, he'll likely get in Smash, but that's the problem...

You see, in Samurai Warriors 3, they remade his game to fit the gameplay style of the game, iirc. I'm not sure if a remake counts in Sakurai's eyes. He also has a minigame in NintendoLand...where he doesn't appear. Then there was a minor cameo in Captain Rainbow! He didn't really do anything. I believe Sakurai meant another game of his own. In this case, it has yet to happen. That being said, I still find him Muddy's biggest competition.



In the Unlikely Case of Version Exclusives:

In this case, I find that if retros are version exclusive, Muddy is a lock for the 3DS. I would also say that Takamaru would be the best bet for the Wii U. It would then be likely that you could transfer those characters to the other version. This would be a win win for the Muddy and Takamaru fans, but its chance of happening is rather slim.

[/Collapse]


Just my opinion on the matter. Feel free to discuss.
 

Gene

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I'd like to be added to the list of supporters if that's okay. Muddy Mole sounds like a very interesting and likely retro character. I need to find a rom of Mole Mania today so I can play it. I don't have a big list a characters that I'd like in smash 4 because I'm keeping my expectations really low this time but Muddy Mole is now on my list of playable characters. If he makes it as an AT then that's fine I guess, unless they do DLC.

:phone:
 

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Both of you have been added to the supporter list, and feel free to spread the word! I'm working on getting a better signature for this thread for the supporters that would want it, but at the moment it is unfinished.
 

Starphoenix

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The famed Nintendo creator's 1997 puzzle game is the newest addition to 8-Bit Summer.

Mole Mania, a 1997 Game Boy game worked on by Shigeru Miyamoto, is coming to the 3DS Virtual Console tomorrow, according to Nintendo of America.

Mole Mania is part of Nintendo of America's 8-Bit Summer initiative, which began at the beginning of July. It is a puzzle game in which Muddy Mole must save his family from an evil farmer by maneuvering a black ball from screen to screen. It originally came out in Japan in 1996, and is one of Miyamoto's least known games.

Working with Miyamoto was Pax Softnica, a development studio that made Balloon Kid and Wave Race for the Game Boy prior to Mole Mania, and later worked with HAL Laboratory on Pokémon Snap. They also worked on the first two Mother/Earthbound games.

In addition to Mole Mania, Wario Land: Super Mario Land 3 is also coming out tomorrow.
http://www.nintendoworldreport.com/news/31159

Have at it.
 

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Okay guys, the time is almost here. Tomorrow, Muddy will be up for debate in the Rate Their Chances thread. Make sure to use this thread's info to help support our retro revival of choice! :D


Word of Warning, however. Don't attack people, don't fight to the death, generally don't go overboard. It's just a game, and if you do it'll just make you and Muddy look bad. Support him, don't kill for him.

Just remember to have fun! I hope everyone here will look forward to tomorrow, and remember to predict for Muddy today, as well as vote on Dark Samus!



I'm Opossum, and on behalf of Muddy Mole, I approve this message.



EDIT: Whoa, like a ninja, Star saved me from double posting. I'm impressed.


Anyway, thank you, Star. I now have an incentive to buy a 3DS. That'll surely be added to the OP. Just in time for tomorrow. Nintendo's watching...*hides*. Joking about that, of course.
 

FlareHabanero

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Kind of glad to see a bit of an obscure gem is getting some attention. Probably won't mean too much in the end, but it's a start somewhere. Especially since we can play it with the nostalgic puke green coloring.

:phone:
 

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Speaking of that, I find it odd that they didn't port over the Super GameBoy colors. Oh well. Still tons of nostalgia.
 

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Tomorrow is going to be expensive. ...And by expensive I mean they are probably going to be like $3.99 each
Hey, as far as I see it, four bucks is worth giving this game some recognition.
 

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Uh, I got a question. Did Mole Mania get any representation in Smash games? I've already looked around on Google. Appears like it didn't. I was astonished that it didn't even get a sticker, compared to other obscure franchises.

:phone:
 

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It got a Chronicle mention in Brawl, if that helps. To my knowledge, it did not receive a sticker, but considering Popo also lacked a sticker, it is not too much against him.
 

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Oh, I forgot about the Chronicle. :/

I think he could be an interesting fighter...I just prefer others.

:phone:
 

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I see. By the way, do you mean other retro characters, or characters in general? Just wondering.
 

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Ah, I see. Well, to each his own.
 

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Mole Mania on 3DS tomorrow! Can't wait to play this game again.
 

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I'll just keep being jealous of all you people with 3DSes. Either way, I hope this will expose more people to Muddy to make him more wanted. By any chance, does anyone know if this was released on Japan's VC as well?
 

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I've never played, or even heard of Mole Mania before, but I guess tomorrow is my chance to try it
 

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Muddy Mole is like my #3 most wanted retro newcomer so even if Muddy Mole gets in over either Duck Hunt Dog or Takamaru, I'd be fine with that (having all three would be better). I really think he would incorporate digging in his playstyle. Maybe he could bury an opponent underground like when Donkey Kong uses Side Special or when any character throws a Pitfall item at another character.

I don't think Mole Mania is out on the Japanese 3DS VC yet.
 

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I've never played, or even heard of Mole Mania before, but I guess tomorrow is my chance to try it
I hope you enjoy it. It's one of those hidden gems. Hey, maybe you'll come out of it a Muddy supporter, who knows?


Arcadenik said:
Muddy Mole is like my #3 most wanted retro newcomer so even if Muddy Mole gets in over either Duck Hunt Dog or Takamaru, I'd be fine with that (having all three would be better). I really think he would incorporate digging in his playstyle. Maybe he could bury an opponent underground like when Donkey Kong uses Side Special or when any character throws a Pitfall item at another character.

I don't think Mole Mania is out on the Japanese 3DS VC yet.
I was thinking that I should add that when Muddy pops out of his hole (read: not forced out by means of time), it leaves behind a small pitfall. It may be a nice touch.
 
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@Starphoenix: Dang it, they put a Game Boy game I really want on the 3DS Virtual Console. Why can't I just get the Wii-U and call it a day?

I may have actually played this once back in the day and I think I enjoyed it.

Regarding Muddy Mole for Smash, this makes him look like an ok addition that I'd be fine with and I dig the digging mechanic (pun intended). However, I do want to ask something in regards to the digging mechanic:

How would it work in regards to stadium with little ground to dig on like Flat Zone? In order for the mechanic to work, it needs to work in every stadium and if it can't work in one, then it doesn't contribute to game balance and keeps him from using one of his greatest tools in certain stages, which would be unfair to Muddy Mole.

Also, the fact that Adam Riley mentioned Mole Mania means nothing. Had Sakurai said something about Muddy Mole (and as you said, that rumor that he was considered for Brawl is just that, a rumor. I'm not going to assume either way), that'd be something worth getting. But that really seems to be grasping at straw for something to support Muddy Mole and there's more reasons to believe that Mach Rider will get the retro revival treatment by Sakurai (which I explained in my support thread). That being said, he could be a possible contender for Sakurai to revive with a new game given that Takamaru has technically been "revived", but it depends on if Sakurai has big plans for Muddy Mole.

In short, I'm fine with Muddy Mole getting in, although I am not a "supporter" since I prefer Lip, Takamaru, Duck Hunt Dog, and Mach Rider to him. But I do feel a couple of your arguments have holds in them. However, I do look forward to see how you present your case tomorrow in Rate Their Chance (I skimmed it and it looks okay).
 

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@Starphoenix: Dang it, they put a Game Boy game I really want on the 3DS Virtual Console. Why can't I just get the Wii-U and call it a day?

I may have actually played this once back in the day and I think I enjoyed it.

Regarding Muddy Mole for Smash, this makes him look like an ok addition that I'd be fine with and I dig the digging mechanic (pun intended). However, I do want to ask something in regards to the digging mechanic:

How would it work in regards to stadium with little ground to dig on like Flat Zone? In order for the mechanic to work, it needs to work in every stadium and if it can't work in one, then it doesn't contribute to game balance and keeps him from using one of his greatest tools in certain stages, which would be unfair to Muddy Mole.

Also, the fact that Adam Riley mentioned Mole Mania means nothing. Had Sakurai said something about Muddy Mole (and as you said, that rumor that he was considered for Brawl is just that, a rumor. I'm not going to assume either way), that'd be something worth getting. But that really seems to be grasping at straw for something to support Muddy Mole and there's more reasons to believe that Mach Rider will get the retro revival treatment by Sakurai (which I explained in my support thread). That being said, he could be a possible contender for Sakurai to revive with a new game given that Takamaru has technically been "revived", but it depends on if Sakurai has big plans for Muddy Mole.

In short, I'm fine with Muddy Mole getting in, although I am not a "supporter" since I prefer Lip, Takamaru, Duck Hunt Dog, and Mach Rider to him. But I do feel a couple of your arguments have holds in them. However, I do look forward to see how you present your case tomorrow in Rate Their Chance (I skimmed it and it looks okay).
Well, as far as the Adam Riley thing, I just put it as a sort of fun tidbit, and may possibly make Sakurai at least know the game's existence. But mostly just a fun fact.

Anyway, as far as the rumor goes, like I said, it for the most part holds up, but cannot be proven and therefore taken with a grain of salt. Still, a rumor is a lot more than a lot of other retros have going for them. Not much more, but still more.

Now as far as the Digging thing on certain stages, I think that on stages with no ground could pose a problem. By this, I'm specifically looking at Hanenbow. But I do think that if Muddy uses the move on a non-diggable platform, he'd drop through and attack the foe underneath. It wouldn't completely break the game balance, as I see Muddy as a stage-controlling character due to his maneuverability and many traps. The traps themselves would still work on stages with little ground, but digging is more problematic. If anything, it is almost like in Mole Mania where you couldn't dig through certain types of tile.

The balance wouldn't be to bad, as Muddy would be a character who, while being a stage-controller, would need to adapt his strategy for the stage that he is playing on.


Just my view on things. Did I answer your question, or did I completely misunderstand what you were saying?
 

FlareHabanero

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I do like the idea of a character that is influenced by the stage and can take advantage of it in different ways. But a certain care of balance might be needed to prevent Muddy from being incredibly overwhelming in some stages but suffer hard in others, especially with the burrowing mechanic. But this is the type of gameplay I would like to see regardless.

:phone:
 

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One way to solve that is stage variety. Digging itself has a time limit and slight cooldown, and traps have minor cooldown and a limit on how many an be out at once, to prevent being broken.

As far as balance is concerned, certain stages based on area may need traps due to low amount of digging space, or more digging if the stage is too big for traps to be used effectively.
 
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