Downloadable Content (DLC): Yes or no? (Also regarding SpotPass and StreetPass)

Frostwraith · Jun 26, 2012

Well, like many of you know, this is a quite controversial topic. And since Nintendo has been starting to bring DLC content to their own games, what do you think about it being on SSB4? And what kinds of content should be put and how much would you be willing to pay?

In a game like Smash, I think that it could bring new contents like stages, music, Trophies, character costumes or even new characters. It could also bring new challenges like more Target Smash maps, new unlockables or new Event matches. It could expand the stage builder greatly by providing new parts and features.

Anyway, there a few question that could be brought: how much are people willing to pay? Or should these contents be free? Since the game is also coming for 3DS, what could be put to good use with SpotPass and StreetPass?

I think that DLC could be used as long as the price would be reasonable, for example: paying 5€ for just one stage would be absurd, especially if you look at Brawl's number of stages (41) and its 49.99€ price, which results around 1.20€ per stage included, and that's not including the rest of the content.

Would paid DLC be worth for a set of trophies? I think not.

Hypothetically if they released a thematic pack of content for a certain price for example:

Sample Majora's Mask themed Pack
Includes:
1 character (Skull Kid) + Single Player Trophies (like Melee's Classic, Adventure and All-Star's trophies or Brawl's Character and Final Smash trophies)
1 stage (Clock Town)
5 trophies (Deku Link, Majora's Mask, Happy Mask Salesman, Moon, Four Giants)
Price: 7€

Would it be a reasonable solution or not? Could DLC add more replay value to the game?

SpotPass and StreetPass could be used for passing custom stages, replays and snapshots (much like Smash Bros. Brawl's Smash Service).

In a nutshell: Are you for or against DLC? And how could DLC work if included?

Lechteron · Jun 26, 2012

There would be problems if characters are DLC unless they're free. Perhaps some custom costume packs or extra stages.

Potentially what they could do, since they know SSB will be huge, is give away DLC content as a sort of advertising for upcoming products and new Virtual Console titles and what not.

Frostwraith · Jun 26, 2012

Lechteron said:
There would be problems if characters are DLC unless they're free. Perhaps some custom costume packs or extra stages.

Potentially what they could do, since they know SSB will be huge, is give away DLC content as a sort of advertising for upcoming products and new Virtual Console titles and what not.

Not a bad idea. They could limit the content of greater franchises to the most recent games (with a few more references to other games, of course) and then expand the content of that franchise to include recent releases or VC releases.

For the Mario franchise they could focus on games like Luigi's Mansion 2, Super Mario Galaxy 1 and 2, and NSMB. 2 and U. With some representation from the original SMB, SMW and SM64. Then, as they would re-release the classic games, they would expand on the content of that game, as well as include content from eventual releases.

This would help to keep SSB4 even more alive, providing constant new challenges and new content.

I personally think that DLC could benefit the game a lot if done right.

DarkShadow20 · Jun 26, 2012

I don't see why DLC is a controversial topic(other than things like on disc DLC). If you don't want to buy it, you don't have to. Simple as that.

I support any kind of DLC, and I'd be fine with paying for it too. SSB is my favorite game series, and I hate having to wait several years in between games, so DLC would help fill the gap.

I don't think there would be problems for DLC characters. They could just have a patch for it so that those who choose not to buy the characters can still play against others who have. It would be similar to playing against a character you haven't unlocked yet I would think.

Curious Villager · Jun 26, 2012

They could possibly use DLC for more event matches and music but I'm not sure about Playable characters and stuff. I don't really know much about the DLC stuff and its potential but I'll give it a go for this game I suppose...

Frostwraith · Jun 26, 2012

DarkShadow20 said:
I support any kind of DLC, and I'd be fine with paying for it too. SSB is my favorite game series, and I hate having to wait several years in between games, so DLC would help fill the gap.

I don't think there would be problems for DLC characters. They could just have a patch for it so that those who choose not to buy the characters can still play against others who have. It would be similar to playing against a character you haven't unlocked yet I would think.

I agree. It would expand on the content of the game by keeping it up to date. Because new games are always coming, putting references to them in Smash would be a good form of advertising. For example, it would be as, if Brawl had DLC, putting costumes for Link and Zelda based on Skyward Sword a few days before the release of Skyward Sword.

Johnknight1 · Jun 26, 2012

Free DLC - okay.
Free patches - okay.
Paid DLC (for minor details and improving various features already in the game, including outfits!!!) and patches - no!

Paid DLC for cool stuff like stages (including past stages (I'm not paying for Stage Builder parts), characters, and all kinds of new features - I am cool with! :laugh:

Although for such DLC (especially with new characters) could possibly split the community. That would be my fear. Looking at games with expansion packs that I own (mostly RTS's), this problem tends to happen, and really, most of the time, tends to make things worse than they actually are.

But hey, that's better than the crap Capcom pulled with MvC3 via UMvC3. They did that by not patching issues in the original release/former game, and punishing people who paid $65 for the original (by making them pay $35 for a re-release with more stuff).

Mario & Sonic Guy · Jun 26, 2012

DLC could always be used to get special outfits, or even new stages. Of course, the contents should be downloaded onto an SD card, identical to how Mario Kart 7 utilizes its update.

ThunderBird2678 · Jun 26, 2012

The only problem is that some DLC characts might be better on the Tier List than some non-DLC characters, and that would mean you would have to pay just to be good at the game.

Mario & Sonic Guy · Jun 26, 2012

ThunderBird2678 said:
The only problem is that some DLC characts might be better on the Tier List than some non-DLC characters, and that would mean you would have to pay just to be good at the game.

Don't forget that Nintendo can always patch up online mode if it has to. After all, if it weren't for Mario Kart 7's update, online gamers would still have to use Maka Wuhu's glitch to win.

But obviously, this would not apply to offline matches.

Smasher89 · Jun 26, 2012

Spotpass could for example be used for sending out new items or stuff like that. Weekly items/stages or something like that.
Streetpass could be used for some kind of minigame for unlocking characters, outfits and/or other new ideas.

Oasis_S · Jun 26, 2012

I'm not really convinced DLC for a game like Smash is very feasible. Smash is a HUGE collaborative effort. Getting all those developers together a second time for a few obscure characters, stages, music, and items sounds pretty impractical. Rebalancing would also have to be done.

I mean, if there's a game to make the most use of it, it's Smash, but at the same time it doesn't seem necessary or practical.

lordvaati · Jun 26, 2012

it's basically inevitable, but not a bad thing. Nintendo proved they know what they are doing with Fire Emblem, and the Challenge stage DLC for NSMB2 should be just as well. Namco themselves are trying to restore the reputation of DLC by making free DLC(though the "DLC for TTTT I think was just hidden characters), so we don't need to worry about an on-disc debacle. and even if it is(it won't) it will be free, as the Special events in Pokemon show.

Claire Diviner · Jun 26, 2012

I can imagine certain DLC being free (mostly patches and updates). Otherwise, I can see characters/character packs, costumes, stages, etc. being paid for, since - let's face it - it does cost money to create content for DLC. The same could be said for patches and updates, but those are mandatory, unlike characters, music, etc., which are optional to create.

Regardless, any game I purchase, I always buy all the DLC to go with it anyway, so whether it's free or not makes no difference as far as I'm concerned.

Zzuxon · Jun 26, 2012

I think charging 1 or 2 US dollars for characters and stages would be reasonable. Themed packs are an idea I had a while ago. Songs, and maybe even items, should be included as well.
Overall, I support DLC as it woud increase replayability. It just shouldn't be on-disc.

Johnknight1 · Jun 27, 2012

Oasis_S said:
I'm not really convinced DLC for a game like Smash is very feasible. Smash is a HUGE collaborative effort. Getting all those developers together a second time for a few obscure characters, stages, music, and items sounds pretty impractical. Rebalancing would also have to be done.

Just keep a few of the staff involving particular graphic-based, balancing, and online maintenance stuff to be ready to work on issues.

Mario_and_Sonic_Guy said:
DLC could always be used to get special outfits, or even new stages. Of course, the contents should be downloaded onto an SD card, identical to how Mario Kart 7 utilizes its update.

That content would be easy to add, and yeah, people would like it (so long as it is free). Costumes as DLC would be a good idea.

Also, trading trophies and stickers is an idea I've had for a while. What if you were given like 10 copies of 1 trophy, and there are 4 other trophies for the promotion=??? Like, you have to trade those trophies to get the other 4. It could be cool-ish.

Another thing DLC could do is add content for free as DLC as a promotion for future Nintendo releases. Like if say Super Mario WiiU came out like 2 years after Smash WiiU and 3DS, you were given a "sneak peak" song, sticker, trophy, and maybe even more. for SmashWiiU and 3DS. That would be a fun way for Nintendo to promote and give us stuff.

Mario_and_Sonic_Guy said:
Don't forget that Nintendo can always patch up online mode if it has to. After all, if it weren't for Mario Kart 7's update, online gamers would still have to use Maka Wuhu's glitch to win.

I imagine patching will be used to fix various online issues, frame rate issues, various glitches, game-breaking glitches (see: all the Black Hole stuff), broken moves to where they are hands down ban-worthy in tournaments (the Meta Knight infinite down B; not OP moves like Melee Fox's shine), hit box issues (like how Mewtwo's tail in his down tilt went through characters), and animation issues (if this was in Brawl, they could have used this to fix Snake's up tilt animation, which looks CRAZY!!!). :laugh:

soviet prince · Jun 28, 2012

dlc is definitely welcome in my book

Revven · Jun 28, 2012

It's welcome if they do it right.

Costumes as DLC. Past stages as DLC. Those are fine. Characters? Maybe if they weren't made ahead of time and were balanced along with the rest of the cast... but that's wishful thinking. If Sakurai and his team can't balance the original cast after having two tries at it already, what's he gonna do when he adds more characters through DLC? Yeah, even with Namco Bandai by his side I really don't think DLC characters could pan out well.

Just... stages, costumes, extra FLUFFY STUFF that gives us more things to play WITH rather than play AGAINST or whatever is cool. Or hell, single player content would be neat... like more Events, like Event packs. Those could be cool if done correctly.

Smash has a lot of potential for DLC. Whether Sakurai & co. see it... well, remains to be seen.

Frostwraith · Jun 28, 2012

Falco400 said:
It's welcome if they do it right.

Costumes as DLC. Past stages as DLC. Those are fine. Characters? Maybe if they weren't made ahead of time and were balanced along with the rest of the cast... but that's wishful thinking. If Sakurai and his team can't balance the original cast after having two tries at it already, what's he gonna do when he adds more characters through DLC? Yeah, even with Namco Bandai by his side I really don't think DLC characters could pan out well.

Just... stages, costumes, extra FLUFFY STUFF that gives us more things to play WITH rather than play AGAINST or whatever is cool. Or hell, single player content would be neat... like more Events, like Event packs. Those could be cool if done correctly.

Smash has a lot of potential for DLC. Whether Sakurai & co. see it... well, remains to be seen.

about the characters, there's always the possibility of patching... like most RTS games and Mario Kart 7. it could affect any multiplayer mode. but for replays to work, it could keep the data from older patches for them to work properly. not a hard solution is it? as long as they don't abuse the DLC or include it on-disc *cough* Capcom *cough*, I approve of its existance.

Revven · Jun 28, 2012

Frostwraith said:
about the characters, there's always the possibility of patching... like most RTS games and Mario Kart 7. it could affect any multiplayer mode. but for replays to work, it could keep the data from older patches for them to work properly. not a hard solution is it? as long as they don't abuse the DLC or include it on-disc *cough* Capcom *cough*, I approve of its existance.

Patching is disgusting and should only be used to A. fix gamebreaking bugs and B. things that are actually broken.

Nintendo only patched MK7 because the course was literally BROKEN because of the glitch that people always did online.

Patching should never be relied on as a "oh hey they can patch the game it's okay!" look at tons of shooters these days and you'll see exactly where I come from.

Plus, it's Nintendo, do you really think they're ever going to patch Smash 4 unless it's for compatibility reasons for DLC/bugs? I don't. People are being way too optimistic about this next Smash.

Frostwraith · Jun 28, 2012

Falco400 said:
Patching is disgusting and should only be used to A. fix gamebreaking bugs and B. things that are actually broken.

Nintendo only patched MK7 because the course was literally BROKEN because of the glitch that people always did online.

Patching should never be relied on as a "oh hey they can patch the game it's okay!" look at tons of shooters these days and you'll see exactly where I come from.

Plus, it's Nintendo, do you really think they're ever going to patch Smash 4 unless it's for compatibility reasons for DLC/bugs? I don't. People are being way too optimistic about this next Smash.

good point. we shouldn't get our expectations high, nor we should be very demanding about patches, or else, Nintendo ends up as the rest of the industry, which is what WE DON'T WANT to happen.

DakotaBonez · Jun 28, 2012

Smash Bros DLC would probably be more Event Matches

Octorox · Jun 29, 2012

I have no problem with paid DLC as long as they don't do any on-disc DLC/withhold any characters from us purposefully. It extends the life of the game and keeps it fresh months down the road.

Holder of the Heel · Jul 4, 2012

Sakurai said he wanted to put DLC in Brawl, but the Wii wasn't capable of doing it.

So are we going to get DLC? Very, very likely.

Mario & Sonic Guy · Jul 4, 2012

This could become a major topic in the future, so I'll sticky the thread for easier access.

The_Killah29 · Jul 4, 2012

Frostwraith said:
Sample Majora's Mask themed Pack
Includes:
1 character (Skull Kid) + Single Player Trophies (like Melee's Classic, Adventure and All-Star's trophies or Brawl's Character and Final Smash trophies)
1 stage (Clock Town)
5 trophies (Deku Link, Majora's Mask, Happy Mask Salesman, Moon, Four Giants)
Price: 7€

Not sure about the price, but I love this idea.

Another idea would be a Metal Gear themed pack
Includes:
2 stages (Outer Haven and Rokovoj Bereg)
8 trophies (Big Boss [2014], Naked Snake, The Boss, Metal Gear ZEKE, Liquid Ocelot, Ocelot [mgs3], Old Snake, Otacon)
1 character (Psycho Mantis0

That's just an example.

Like say for costumes, an 8-bit costume for Mario that moves like him in SSB, but the look and feel of the 2D 8-bit mario, and being 2D like the sprite. Something like that.

DLC is only good if it's done right.

yani · Jul 4, 2012

We probably wouldn't get characters, but I'm all for any Smash DLC.

ItsSilverLPs · Jul 4, 2012

I liked the idea of themed packs.
Also, it would be a good idea, for example: After releasing SSB4, Nintendo releases a game that is unexpectedly successful. So, they could make as DLC, a themed pack of that game, so we wouldn't wait more 5-7 years to this game be represented in a Smash game.

Frostwraith · Jul 4, 2012

ItsSilverLPs said:
I liked the idea of themed packs.
Also, it would be a good idea, for example: After releasing SSB4, Nintendo releases a game that is unexpectedly successful. So, they could make as DLC, a themed pack of that game, so we wouldn't wait more 5-7 years to this game be represented in a Smash game.

that's one good use for DLC. they could keep the content related to Nintendo games in Smash up-to-date, by adding stages and trophies from such games. they could also do that for Virtual Console releases, by releasing something related to that title, such as a stage.

another use for DLC could be to release lesser known characters for fans of that franchise. that way, they could keep the more known characters from a series, for example Link, Zelda and Ganon for the Zelda franchise, and release characters like Skull Kid or Ghirahim for fans of the series.
in other words, they can release a roster with the premise of Nintendo All-Stars, but at the same time, they could satisfy fans of a particular series by releasing some fan-favorite characters.

DLC shouldn't be about completing a deliberately incomplete game and profiting from it, it should take on an already complete game and EXPAND upon it. and Smash definitely has room for such expansions.

Like in the new Fire Emblem game, the game can be played without DLC, it has an all-new cast of characters, several missions, a story, but also has optional DLC missions that reward the players with characters and items that expand the gameplay. is it required to complete the game and understand the story? No, but gives replay value and new characters and items that expand the gameplay and open new strategies for the game. the same can be applied to Smash, we can have an all-star roster featuring the more important characters of Nintendo, and add more minor characters as DLC that otherwise would never get in the game.

The_Killah29 · Jul 4, 2012

Frostwraith said:
DLC shouldn't be about completing a deliberately incomplete game and profiting from it, it should take on an already complete game and EXPAND upon it. and Smash definitely has room for such expansions.

Most companies seem to forget this. *cough* Activision. *cough* EA. *cough* Capcom. *cough*

Another idea for a theme pack like the one you mentioned involves Baten Kaitos, a very well done Nintendo exclusive.

Includes:
1 Character (Kalas)
2 Stages (The Sfida, Cor Hydrae)
4 music peices ("True Mirror" - BK1, "The Valedectory Elegy" - BKO, "The Valedectory Elegy ~ Guitar ver ~" - BKO, "Le Ali Del Principio" - BKO)
14 Trophies - (Kalas, Xella, Gibari, Mizuti, Lyude, Savyna, Magnus Card, Geldoblame, Malpercio, Melodia, Sagi, Milly, Guilo, Giacomo)
Price $13

MechaWave · Jul 5, 2012

Patches, game fixes, and adding features are examples of things that should be universally accessible, and should be free. Minor things like additional costumes, rulesets (like for Special Brawl), should also be free.

Additional characters are probably the only thing that can actually be paid DLC. It has been done in many games before.

I'm all for DLC in Smash, especially since it's such a acclaimed franchise. DLC would keep the game live longer and make it so Sakurai can work on other projects other than Smash at the same time, while also letting him think of things to add to the game. It will also prevent certain limits he may have had beforehand, such as characters, which can just be added into the game.

It's a win-win situation for Sakurai and players alike, it should definitely be added.

Kirbunny431 · Jul 5, 2012

I'd happily pay money for characters and stages. If that Majora's Mask pack were to exist in the future, I'd buy it the second came out. I don't think I'd pay for items, costumes, events, or trophies, unless they were all in some "Extras Pack." 2 new items, 5 new costumes, 10 new event matches, 20 new trophies, or something like that.

I have faith that, if Nintendo does DLC, they'll do it right. There are only three real ways to screw up DLC:

1. On-Disc DLC: Makes everybody hate you and feel betrayed. Nintendo is smarter than this and won't allow it to happen.
2. Day 1 DLC: Same as #1.
3. Overpriced and Lacking DLC: This might be a problem, but I don't think Nintendo would let that happen either.

Frostwraith · Jul 5, 2012

Kirbunny431 said:
I'd happily pay money for characters and stages. If that Majora's Mask pack were to exist in the future, I'd buy it the second came out. I don't think I'd pay for items, costumes, events, or trophies, unless they were all in some "Extras Pack." 2 new items, 5 new costumes, 10 new event matches, 20 new trophies, or something like that.

I have faith that, if Nintendo does DLC, they'll do it right. There are only three real ways to screw up DLC:

1. On-Disc DLC: Makes everybody hate you and feel betrayed. Nintendo is smarter than this and won't allow it to happen.
2. Day 1 DLC: Same as #1.
3. Overpriced and Lacking DLC: This might be a problem, but I don't think Nintendo would let that happen either.

the trinity of what DLC shouldn't be.

DLC should only start being released by the time the average player already had the game complete.

Robert of Normandy · Jul 5, 2012

No DLC should EVER be on-disc(I can't believe this is honestly still a thing), and Day 1 DLC should be avoided as much as possible.

Edit: What I'd do for DLC:
-ALL DLC should be able to be purchased individually; DLC packs should be optional.
-Characters & Patches should be free.
-Stages could be paid DLC, depends on the stage.
-Extra costumes for characters, should be inexpensive.
-Extra event matches, should be inexpensive.
-Extra 1P/stadium modes could be paid for.
-Extra VS mode options could be paid for.
-Extra stage builder options(new themes, pieces, etc.) could be paid for.
-NO DLC TROPHIES. Or if there are, they should be free.

lordvaati · Jul 5, 2012

now that I think about it,in a way we ALL want DLC in Smash.look no further then the tons of Costume and stage mods(which can be common DLC), Character moveset tweaks and character mods(which could be character DLC) and stuff like Balanced Brawl and Project M (which were made like balance patches and system tweaks.)

Mario & Sonic Guy · Jul 6, 2012

A user did mention holiday-themed outfits on a different thread. Maybe during certain months, you can download the outfits onto an SD card, and then use them in the game itself.

In terms of how this would all work out, if you start Smash 4 while the SD card has add-on content for that game, you'd get the following message...

Add-on Content has been detected on the SD card. Would you like to enable the data? YES / NO

If you choose YES, all the DLC contents on your SD card will be turned ON. However, the SD card can not be removed, or else the DLC contents will be disabled.

finalark · Jul 6, 2012

Lets be total honest here, characters will not be free. It costs money to make them so of course they're going to want to make a profit off of the money spent on characters.

As for my stance on it, I'm all for DLC for Smash 4 if its done right. As OP suggested, themed packs would be solid assuming they came with a new character, stage, tracks and trophies.

Perhaps DLC could be used also for third party characters they couldn't get the rights to while the game was in development.

Frostwraith · Jul 6, 2012

Mario_and_Sonic_Guy said:
A user did mention holiday-themed outfits on a different thread. Maybe during certain months, you can download the outfits onto an SD card, and then use them in the game itself.

In terms of how this would all work out, if you start Smash 4 while the SD card has add-on content for that game, you'd get the following message...

Add-on Content has been detected on the SD card. Would you like to enable the data? YES / NO

If you choose YES, all the DLC contents on your SD card will be turned ON. However, the SD card can not be removed, or else the DLC contents will be disabled.

not a bad idea. I can see it happening.

really like the idea of holiday outfitts... who wouldn't like to see our favorite Nintendo characters brawiling with Santa hats? or having zombie costumes for Halloween?

GunmasterLombardi · Jul 6, 2012

If I had a nickle for every time pre-order dlc has been announced...

MechaWave · Jul 7, 2012

finalark said:
Lets be total honest here, characters will not be free. It costs money to make them so of course they're going to want to make a profit off of the money spent on characters.

It does not cost MONEY to make characters, it costs TIME.

Downloadable Content (DLC): Yes or no? (Also regarding SpotPass and StreetPass)

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