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The Cheer-Leading Shockers, Plusle and Minun for Smash Bros. 4! DLC Anyone?

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Mega Bidoof

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Note that the OP is under construction, and sections will be expanded on.



(Banner by @N3ON)


As we all know, the Pokémon Gen III remakes are just around the corner, and a decent amount of people are saying that there may be a Gen III Pokémon in Smash 4. Most people are saying it will be Sceptile, to be the grass counterpart to Charizard and Greninja.

BUT THERE ARE OTHERS WHO CAN FIT THIS ROLE AS A HOENN POKÉMON!!!
TWO POKÉMON TO BE EXACT!!!

Ladies and gents, I present to you, Plusle & Minun!

Now you might be an idiot, or an elderly person, thinking to yourself, "What in blazes name is a Pocéman?"
If you are thinking this, GET THE HELL OFF THE INTERNET. If you don't know what a Pokémon is, you don't belong here, especially on a Nintendo game forum.

Now you may be slightly more legitimately thinking, "What is a Plusle & Minun?" in which case, I will answer your question.
Plusle & Minun are two bipedal, cream-colored Pokémon, who originated in Ruby & Sapphire. Like their names imply, Plusle has red plus signs on its body, while Minun has blue minus signs on its body. They aren't part of an evolutionary family, but they are somehow related.
They enjoy fighting together, and always cheer eachother on!

Fun Fact: They were actually made to show off the new double-battle feature in Ruby & Sapphire.
So they were literally made for eachother!


How they would work:
Obviously they would be a duo character, like the a Ice Climbers. But instead of Ice-Based attacks, they would use Electric attacks. In the actual Pokémon games, Plusle is more powerful with attacks, and Minun was more technically-focused. This could be implemented into their moves as a gimmick of sorts.

MOVESETS:
[collapse=Jigglover's Moveset]
Plusle is more attack based in the pokemon games, and Minun is more technical, so I decided (after giving credit to MelMoe for the idea) to implement it into my attacks.
A: Slash upwards while facing sideways with ears. 8% for Minun, 6% for Plusle.
AA: Slash back down while facing sideways with ears. 9% for Minun, 6% for Plusle
AAA: Slash up and down repeatedly with ears. 6% Each slash for Minun, 4% each slash for Plusle.
Up tilt and A: Criss-cross ears above them. 16% Short knock-back for Minun, 13% moderate knock-back for Plusle.
Up smash A: Minun jumps on top of Plusle (or vice versa) and jumps up with an electric ball in-between it's ears. 28% moderate knock-back. for Minun, 23% High knock-back for Plusle.
Side tilt A: Simple head-butt. Plusle and Minun both do it on differentiating sides and so it does not matter which way you tilt, as long as it is left or right. 13% per headbutt minimal knockback but enters the characters into the helpless state so has great edge-guarding capabilities. Since this uses both Plusle and Minun doing the same thing, the hit-box and knock-back stays the same for Plusle/ Minun.
Side smash A: Minun shoves Plusle (or vice versa depending on which way you smash the control stick) to the side and deals 26+ (21+ for Plusle) damage to anyone it hits. Plusle and Minun has priority over the attack once they are shoved but becomes helpless once the shove runs out. The player can make the character go anywhere, up, down, even turn around while their pokemon has been launched. The helpless state only lasts for 1.25 seconds, so if the pokemon is up a long way, it's possible to recover if it drops for a long time. Has a major percentage of knock-back (lesser so for Minun) and is to be feared. It also causes the pusher to trip, but will get back up in half a second.
Down tilt A: A simple kick on the ground in both directions. Trips anyone it hits and could be referred to as low kick ( I know he can't learn the pokemon move, just a suggestion.) It also delivers 21% (14% for Plusle) to anyone it hits but deals no knock-back for Minun whatsoever, it deals very small knockback for Plusle. Also, the character can't get up if either Plusle and/or Minun kicks them for 1 whole second.
Down smash A: They both simultaneously jump, then launch themselves off of each-others feet(?) at a slightly more horizontal angle of mario's fireball, so it's clearly more effective after being charged up and launched in the air. High knock-back capabilities (Guaranteed KO for any character above 45% if Plusle hits anyone) coupled with a 42% (34% for Plusle) possible hit-box makes this a move to watch very carefully for. Since it is a glass cannon move, it would be difficult to pull off. Also since Plusle is obviously the more dangerous user of this move, it is fired in the direction the character tilts the control stick after you begin charging the attack, with Minun being fired on the other side.

Specials now.

Neutral special: Fake tears. A brilliant move if you've been building up HP for the opponent, and need to finish it quickly. It also requires no charging. Plusle and Minun make no warning, and then suddenly shoots tears out of there eyes. You can control where the tears go for 6 seconds, but if an opponent starts coming towards you, then you can go straight into another move (minus that moves starting lag.) It deals 3% damage for each tear, but tears launch themselves in two's since there are two eyes, so unless he manages to roll to the side, it's 6% damage rapidly firing at him over and over again. It fires them upwards and is the meaning of a vertical finisher; It fires them straight up and has star KO's a plenty. Let me give you a taste of how strong it is. On Bridge of Eldin (It's the lowest stage of any stage) you can star KO opponents at 112% - that's if a horizontal finisher doesn't get him first.
Side special: Thunder wave. Does what it says, really. It creates a wave of thunder on both sides of Plusle and Minun and traps any characters it hits as it travels off-stage, it lasts for about 3 seconds, so if it hits anyone recovering, it can easily trap them and carry them beyond the blast-line.
Down-special: Baton pass. Plusle taps Minun (or vice versa) and creates a short shockwave launching for 0.45 seconds on the backs of both the characters. This enables the player to switch between plusle and minun freely with minimal(ish) lag (1.2 seconds) and can then control the other character. While switching, it leaves the pair completely vulnerable from the above, so the players have to time the switch pretty well.
Up B: Electro-ball. For this attack I wanted to make a reference to the fact that they're called: 'the cheer-leading pokemon' so naturally it would involve some cuteness. Plusle and Minun combine their electricity to create a giant ball of electricity and they jump on top of it, they can control it for a short amount of time to get back on stage. They do this while chanting their respective names and both wave pom-poms. it also meteor smashes any opponents that come into contact with the ball. 33% Very strong meteor smash.
Edit: Forgot to include final smash so here it is:
Charge beam. Both Plusle and Minun Go to the top of the screen, much like Lucario now, and they both use charge beam. I looks much like aura storm, but there are two of the beams (controlled symmetrically) and the beams are a little bit smaller. It also includes some things surrounding discharge to it, since random shocks of thunder come out of the beams if you press A during the smash.

Taunts:
Taunt 1: They both: twirl, hi5, sleep and awaken in 2 -- 3 seconds.
Taunt 2: Plusle and Minun seperate, then launch a ball of electricity in-between eacother to create a bigger ball in the middle of them.
Taunt 3: Plusle and Minun wrap one arm around the others neck, take out pompoms, wink, spin around and then put the pom poms away.
[/collapse]

BUT WAIT! THERE'S MORE!

What would a comedy-filled OP be without a Codec Call!?

Codec Calls:
[collapse=Codec Call by Jigglover]
Snake: Colonel, why are there two rats running around?
Colonel: Those are no rats snake, they're Plusle and Minun, don't anger them or you'll end up with more of a shock than Ocelot's torture device.
Snake: ..! But they're so small, that's impossible.
Colonel: Alone, yes, but as a duo they can combine they're power to encase you completely in sparks and--
Snake: But will it really hurt that much? I mean, look at them, if they stand on top of eachother, they might be as high as Psycho-mantis' leg.
Colonel: ... There's no talking to you, look, just watch your back... and front.
[/collapse]


Palette swaps, credit to NikoPunkSupeerMaario:


 
Last edited:

VictoryIsMudkipz

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Would have loved to see them in Brawl or Melee, but now that their irrelevant in Pokemon I'm a little ehhh, but they would have been great in SSBB
 

Robert of Normandy

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I'm not pushing for them, but I'd be game if they got in. The I.C. need tag-team competition. And I'd rather them than the Pichu bros.
 

jigglover

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It's not so bad having some characters a bit out-dated in the game, I mean, jigglypuff's out-dated, she's in it. Also I don't want to bring up the seven who were cut from brawl but...
 

ndayday

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Yeah, my concern is that they're largely forgotten now. Still, like you said, 3rd gen remakes are inevitable and that could spark interest (pun intended).

Oh! and you make collapse tags by typing this around the text:
[collapse ]text goes here[/collap se]
Alternatively it's the icon furthest to the right in the advanced post box.
 

Kink-Link5

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Would prefer if they had a tandem moveset and acted as a single character instead of another Ice Climbers thing. An entire moveset of hand-in-hand attacks would certainly be different.
 
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MelMoe

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If a 3rd gen remake were to happen they would definitely be a front runner. But as of right now, the have some huge competition with 5th gen pokemon & Mewtwo.

Regarding ur moveset, what is the point of switching between them if all their moves are the same? If u want them to switch, I recommend giving a reason to do so. Since Plusle is the more offensive of the two, it can be a heavy hitter who relies more on strong knock-backs rather than racking up damage. Minun is defensive, it can be a hit & run character who is better at causing damage than K.O.s. I also recommend that some of their moves should be different based on who is being controlled; specials can remain the same.

Not a bad moveset at all. About the Thunder Wave, does it literally trap an opponent or does it just stun them temporarily? I really love ur Electro Ball idea.

:phone:
 

jigglover

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If a 3rd gen remake were to happen they would definitely be a front runner. But as of right now, the have some huge competition with 5th gen pokemon & Mewtwo.

Regarding ur moveset, what is the point of switching between them if all their moves are the same? If u want them to switch, I recommend giving a reason to do so. Since Plusle is the more offensive of the two, it can be a heavy hitter who relies more on strong knock-backs rather than racking up damage. Minun is defensive, it can be a hit & run character who is better at causing damage than K.O.s. I also recommend that some of their moves should be different based on who is being controlled; specials can remain the same.

Not a bad moveset at all. About the Thunder Wave, does it literally trap an opponent or does it just stun them temporarily? I really love ur Electro Ball idea.

:phone:
Thanks for the tips. I should have clarified a bit more. When you use baton pass, and then an A attack ( tilt and smash,) then it uses the character you're controlling at that moment. So Plusle pushes Minun on the side smash A if you've baton passed onto Minun. When I thought of the move-set, I hadn't thought about putting a difference between the two pokemon, but that idea is amazing, and would give baton pass a lot more use. I will edit the OP now.

In regard to your question about Thunder Wave, I don't think what will happen has been used before. It will stun the opponents, but it will carry them with the wave as they are stunned. They will be stunned for 2 seconds and the likelihood that they will be carried off screen is great, as it moves at a slightly quicker speed than a dashing Pikachu. Thanks about the electro-ball, I was quite pleased when I thought of it since my first idea was basically a cuter version of the ice climbers' recovery with an electric thread...
Does anyone know an estimated release date of SSB4, so I can try and see if the gen 3 remakes will be out by then?
 

jigglover

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Jhonnykiller45

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If they make it in(I hope not) I do believe they'll be some sort of Ice Climbers-inspired Pikachu clone.
And considering how not-important they are now, I doubt they'll be in.
I also expect them to be kinda like how Pichu was in Melee, a lightweight character that has self-damaging moves(not that this is a good thing).
 
D

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If they make it in(I hope not) I do believe they'll be some sort of Ice Climbers-inspired Pikachu clone.
And considering how not-important they are now, I doubt they'll be in.
I also expect them to be kinda like how Pichu was in Melee, a lightweight character that has self-damaging moves(not that this is a good thing).
As much as I don't want P+M, them having self-damaging moves would not make any sense.

Pichu had it because Pichu cannot control its electrical power yet, and thus hurts itself when using it. This is an attribute mentioned in it's Pokedex entries and shown in the anime.
 

jigglover

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They won't attack them-selves that's for sure. Jhonnykiller, well, for one, what do you have against Jhonny? And two, did you even read the OP? I've already confirmed on behalf of nintendo on this site that Gen 3 remakes (the genaration Plusle and Minun is from) are inevitable either before, or marginally after SSB4 is released, so it will basically be advertising the Gen 3 remakes much like Pichu or Roy. Also, I just think they would be fun to play as. By the way, read my move-set, mainly Baton Pass (down B) and you can see why they would be good to carry on the PT mechanic in a simpler fashion if the PT is/isn't cut. Although personally, I think they would have more supporters (not that they need them with the Gen 3 remakes) if PT is cut. Also, they were part of the forbidden 7 in brawl, so we know that Sakurai knows of their duo capabilities, and like dixie kong (who was going to be a duo with Diddy) due to mere inconveniences, and so that means that Sakurai still has his eye out for them.
 
D

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Until they actually confirm Gen. 3 remakes, you can't act as though they will happen.
The reason why there were Gen. 1 and Gen. 2 remakes was because you could not connect Pokemon from those Generations to Generation 3 and above.

You CAN however, get a Pokemon from Generation 3 and transfer it all the way to Generation 5 by first using Generation 4 as a stepping stone.
Until Pokemon games go on the 3DS, there is no need for a Gen. 3 remake.

Oh, and by the way, you can't "confirm" specuation.
 

jigglover

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Generation 6 might make it so that you can't transfer from generation 6 in favour of the remakes and as a marketing tool. Why isn't generation 6 on 3DS anyway? It doesn't make any sense... On a more appropriate note, now that Pokemon is such a big franchise, nintendo and gamefreak feel as if they need more than 3 main-series games in each generation anyway, since it beats even LoZ in the amount of money it makes each game.
 

MelMoe

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Until they actually confirm Gen. 3 remakes, you can't act as though they will happen.
The reason why there were Gen. 1 and Gen. 2 remakes was because you could not connect Pokemon from those Generations to Generation 3 and above.

You CAN however, get a Pokemon from Generation 3 and transfer it all the way to Generation 5 by first using Generation 4 as a stepping stone.
Until Pokemon games go on the 3DS, there is no need for a Gen. 3 remake.

Oh, and by the way, you can't "confirm" specuation.
I haven't followed pokemon for a while so this could be bad for any Hoenn pokemon.

I honestly like Deoxys a bit more, but Plusle & Minun would be good choice for a Hoenn too. They can represent the team mechanic that Hoenn introduced.

Mewtwo makes a better phychic pokemon rep than Deoxys anyway.

:phone:
 
D

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What people need to realize too, is that Sakurai doesn't look at Pokemon by Generations.
He doesn't go by "Oh, *insert Pokemon* is from the *insert* Generation, and needs to be included to be fair". A Pokemon is a Pokemon is a Pokemon.
I mean, Pichu was an afterthought character added as a clone to beef up Melee's roster.
Had Sakurai not decide to add clones, we would've only had Pikachu, Jigglypuff, and Mewtwo. That's 3 1st Gens.
As for Lucario, I doubt he was included solely for being a 4th Generation. Lucario became very popular after his movie, and even had various cameos and references before his Generation even came out.
 

jigglover

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In regards to your melee argument, there was only generation 1 and 2 released at the time. My last post wasn't at all speculation, the top 4 series' for nintendo goes: Mario, Pokemon, LoZ and DK respectively, and that's ground in fact. As afore-mentioned, Plusle and Minun could be used as a marketing tool much like Pichu and Roy were, and Plusle and Minun have been voted the favourite gen 3 Pokemon online quite a few times (well, Plusle then Minun and vice versa.) Also, there really hasn't been a gen 3 rep since the start of smash bros, and Sakurai might not look at the Pokemon characters in generations, but I'm sure a lot of the other producers will, and another gen 3 rep would honestly shock me like hell. If you can, think of some popular gen 3 reps, it will be interesting what you think.
Edit: I would also like to say that a reason for the previous remakes was to introduce younger players to older generations and story-lines. Since gen 3 is a generation for the game boy, and a lot of people don't have a DS or DS lite anymore, and have a DSI or a 3DS instead, it's another reason why they should happen.
 

MelMoe

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I understand how pokemon are picked by popularity rather than for generation.

However, remakes & new gens will make those specific pokemon a bit more popular because they will be the media & such.

EDIT: So a remake of Hoenn might be the only time for Plusle & Minun to be included due to competitions with newer gens or just more popular pokemon like Mewtwo.

:phone:
 
D

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In regards to your melee argument, there was only generation 1 and 2 released at the time. My last post wasn't at all speculation, the top 4 series' for nintendo goes: Mario, Pokemon, LoZ and DK respectively, and that's ground in fact. As afore-mentioned, Plusle and Minun could be used as a marketing tool much like Pichu and Roy were, and Plusle and Minun have been voted the favourite gen 3 Pokemon online quite a few times (well, Plusle then Minun and vice versa.) Also, there really hasn't been a gen 3 rep since the start of smash bros, and Sakurai might not look at the Pokemon characters in generations, but I'm sure a lot of the other producers will, and another gen 3 rep would honestly shock me like hell. If you can, think of some popular gen 3 reps, it will be interesting what you think.
Edit: I would also like to say that a reason for the previous remakes was to introduce younger players to older generations and story-lines. Since gen 3 is a generation for the game boy, and a lot of people don't have a DS or DS lite anymore, and have a DSI or a 3DS instead, it's another reason why they should happen.
I never said that Pokemon wasn't one of Nintendo's most popular series, that is fact.
But saying that there's going to be a 3rd Gen remake is speculation.
Also, in recent polls (pre-Unova, though), the top 3 for Pokemon in Japan are Arceus, Darkrai, and Deoxys, making Deoxys the most popular 3rd Generation Pokemon. Following Deoxys in 3rd Gen is 8th Place Rayquaza and 9th Place Jirachi. Neither Plusle nor Minun are in the Top 10. In fact, the only non-Legendaries in the Top 10 were 4th Place Pikachu and 7th Place Eevee.
Sakurai even comments of Deoxys being popular even before that poll on its Dojo page. "Now, this one is popular."
This leads me to beleive that if ANY 3rd Gen were to make the cut, it would be Deoxys, not Plusle & Minun, who's purpose in Brawl was to be Pichu's replacement.

But aside from that Pichu was hardly a marketing tool as Gold and Silver came out before Melee, unlike Roy's game. Pichu was added to be a joke character, one that was deliberately bad.
Also, a marketing tool for a remake? Unheard of.

And again, saying that something SHOULD happen or a personal belief does not make something true. It's just speculation.
 

jigglover

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Legendary Pokemon do not feel welcome being playable in the smash bros. series. Sakurai doesn't want to fill up on legendary Pokemon in his roster, even though they are the most popular, because otherwise the other easier obtainable Pokemon get no recognition in smash bros. and it would also make players introduced to Pokemon via smash bros. think: "that's funny, smash bros. has Arceus all over the place, but you have to go onto wifi at a certain time period to get this Pokemon in it's actual games, I can't even get Darkrai in Gen 6 until July next year. This series is stupid."
Gold and Silver could still have been marketed by Pichu, it wasn't released that much before. Besides, if it wasn't that, then it would have been put in for the purposes of having a gen 2 rep in there, so that's a point to me either way. There must have been some reasons why they put Pichu in as the joke character rather than Zubat or something.
Mewtwo is OK because of the lack of good pokemon in Gen 1&2 to use in smash bros. and the fact that he contributes well to the balance of the roster.
 

Opossum

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Legendary Pokemon do not feel welcome being playable in the smash bros. series. Sakurai doesn't want to fill up on legendary Pokemon in his roster, even though they are the most popular, because otherwise the other easier obtainable Pokemon get no recognition in smash bros. and it would also make players introduced to Pokemon via smash bros. think: "that's funny, smash bros. has Arceus all over the place, but you have to go onto wifi at a certain time period to get this Pokemon in it's actual games, I can't even get Darkrai in Gen 6 until July next year. This series is stupid."
Gold and Silver could still have been marketed by Pichu, it wasn't released that much before. Besides, if it wasn't that, then it would have been put in for the purposes of having a gen 2 rep in there, so that's a point to me either way. There must have been some reasons why they put Pichu in as the joke character rather than Zubat or something.
Mewtwo say hi.
 

Mario & Sonic Guy

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You may want to take the generation debate conversation somewhere else, as it's derailing this thread's primary topic, which is Plusle & Minun.
 
D

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Oh, I wasn't aware you know what Sakurai wants. Can you ask him his viewpoints on K. Rool?
And the reason why Pichu was chosen as the joke character was because Pichu made sense as a clone and wasn't completely random as someone like say, Igglybuff.
 
D

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So is this entire subforum. Get over it.

As an aside, the self-damaging bit could be considered from the Plus and Minus abilities in Pokémon, due to the extra charge/power/whatever.
Wow, for a Moderator, you sure don't pay attention do you?
He was claiming that there was going to be remakes of the 3rd Generation as fact, when it is currently only speculation, which is what I was telling him.

People can speculate all they want, but when they claim speculation as absolute fact, there's a problem.
 

Venus of the Desert Bloom

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People can speculate all they want, but when they claim speculation as absolute fact, there's a problem.
This.

There may be a remake of R/S but we aren't 100% sure. Claiming these will be made only lessens credibility.

:phone:
 

jigglover

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So is this entire subforum. Get over it.

As an aside, the self-damaging bit could be considered from the Plus and Minus abilities in Pokémon, due to the extra charge/power/whatever.
But Pichu can also learn some powers that hurt him, and Plusle and Minun can't. Besides, they're already fully-grown.
 

TheReflexWonder

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Wow, for a Moderator, you sure don't pay attention do you?
He was claiming that there was going to be remakes of the 3rd Generation as fact, when it is currently only speculation, which is what I was telling him.

People can speculate all they want, but when they claim speculation as absolute fact, there's a problem.
It's the most likely thing at the time as far as Pokémon goes, and, again, every single post of why or why not any character would fit in Smash 4 is based on speculation, confirmed or not (except for the Smash veterans, naturally). I just don't see why it bugs you so much that someone would suggest it when it appears rather reasonable and the most logical next step despite not actually being confirmed.

But Pichu can also learn some powers that hurt him, and Plusle and Minun can't. Besides, they're already fully-grown.
Technically, they can learn Double-Edge in Generation 3!...But I know that's not what you mean, heh. If anything, they get Wild Charge now, though.
 
D

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It bugs me because he's using it as irresputable fact when it isn't, and actually has points against it as much as points for it.

Namely the fact that the previous remakes were because you couldn't connect Pokemon from R/B/Y/G/S/C to later games, while R/S/E Pokemon can be even in B2/W2 by first using D/P/Pl/HG/SS as a stepping stone. Granted, it's not as simple as R/S/E -> B2/W2, but the connection is still there.

Until Pokemon hits the 3DS, there is no need for remakes.
 

TheReflexWonder

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It bugs me because he's using it as irresputable fact when it isn't, and actually has points against it as much as points for it.

Namely the fact that the previous remakes were because you couldn't connect Pokemon from R/B/Y/G/S/C to later games, while R/S/E Pokemon can be even in B2/W2 by first using D/P/Pl/HG/SS as a stepping stone. Granted, it's not as simple as R/S/E -> B2/W2, but the connection is still there.

Until Pokemon hits the 3DS, there is no need for remakes.
The mere existence of HeartGold/SoulSilver rebuts the idea that remakes only exist for the sole purpose of connecting stuff to later games. They just want to make some more money.

Either way, it's not just blind, baseless hope. There's definitely reason to suggest it.
 
D

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Suggest it yes, but not state as fact to support an argument. It'd be like me claiming that Skull Kid is very likely because a Majora's Mask remake is inevitable and is definitely going to happen inbetween now and Smash 4's release for sure.

And how is HG/SS a rebuttal? You cannot connect G/S/C to future Generations.
 

TheReflexWonder

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Suggest it yes, but not state as fact to support an argument.

And how is HG/SS a rebuttal? You cannot connect G/S/C to future Generations.
You're arguing semantics. It's perfectly reasonable to support an argument on a subforum entirely based around speculation.

The most reasonable excuse for remakes is to bring back the old countries, not the old Pokémon. An incredibly small number of Pokémon were unavailable in DPPt prior to HG/SS, all of which would've fit perfectly well in events (which is basically how you get them all in HG/SS).

As a result, either they want to recreate the old countries in the new games to keep continuity, or they want a lot of money (which is what more remakes will get them). Either way, it makes a new game based in Hoenn an obvious step for them.
 
D

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Well, seeing as this is getting me nowhere (on the speculation front) I'll end that note with this: Since speculation is perfectly reasonable to support an argument, I will say that it is fact that Skull Kid is likely because it is inevitable we get a Majora's Mask remake as it's the logical next step after an Ocarina of Time remake and it's defintely going to happen inbetween now and Smash 4's release for sure.
Perfectly reasonable and cannot be proven wrong. Anyone who says otherwise needs to get over it. :troll:

As for your explanation on the furture remakes, I do see your point. However, I just personally don't see it happening until you cannot connect R/S/E to current Generations. I will concede though, that again, I do see your point.
 

jigglover

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OK, we have to get this forum back on track about Plusle and Minun now, so nobody should comment on the previous *cough *cough debate, and begin discussing Plusle and Minun again
 
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