Such Villainy!!! Should More Villains be included in Smash 4?

Venus of the Desert Bloom · Jul 31, 2012

In Super Smash Bros. Melee, all we got in terms of villains of Bowser, Ganondorf, and, technically speaking, Mewtwo. Bowser, while a villain, got a roster spot due to his iconic popularity as well as his history with Super Mario Bros. Ganondorf got on similar reasons. However, both are the villains of their series

In Super Smash Bros. Brawl, we got Wario, Wolf, King Dedede, and the morally ambiguous Meta Knight. We also saw the introduction of Boss fights such as Ridley, Porkey Minch, and Petey Piranha.

So, with Smash 4 due out in the next few years, do you think villains will take a more prominent role in Smash bros. as well as more villain representation in the roster? Considering two of the top three characters (according to the R&D thread), King K. Rool ad Ridley are villains of their series; villains seem to be highly requested.

What are your thoughts on more villain representation, which villains could/should make the roster, and do you think it is possible for a 3rd party character villain to represent a series?

This thread is all about villains and if they need/don't need to be in Smash 4.

TheJohnMonster · Jul 31, 2012

Lets bring in Ridley and Dark Samus, Dark Samus is the villain of the Prime Trilogy and Ridley is a villain in every Metroid game, plus he killed her parents and blew up her planet.

Yomi's Biggest Fan · Jul 31, 2012

There are some good choices like Alex, Petey Pirahna, King Boo, N Harmonia, Rocket Grunt, Kamek, King K. Rool, Vaati, Ghirahim, Skull Kid, Dark Matter, Black Shadow, Porky, Claus/Masked Man, Devil, Nightmare, Black Knight, Medusa, Hades, Leon, Panther, Pandora, King Hippo, Ashley, and Captain Syrup. Andross would never happen since he is known for being planet sized and canonicaly never shown his normal body.

Mypantisgone · Jul 31, 2012

Eeeerrrmmm...

I feel people say size is unimportant for Ridley only...

jigglover · Jul 31, 2012

Nobody should get in just because they're a villain. It's like saying that Primid should be playable because they were villains in brawl. Only if they are important to the series. Also, Wolf is a rival to fox, not an enemy. They're two very different things.

N3ON · Jul 31, 2012

I'm gonna give the same sort of answer I did in the female topic, which is, the character should be included based on if they warrant inclusion, not solely because they are a villain. Luckily this time around there are some definite chances for villain characters that warrant inclusion, like Ridley and K. Rool. Also Bowser Jr. and Goroh have decent chances as well (although Goroh is more of a rival than a villain). And I guess Medusa and Dark Samus have an outside shot.

As for 3rd party villains, I wouldn't count on it. I'd love an Eggman boss battle though.

Deleted member · Jul 31, 2012

Honestly, I think more villains are all but guaranteed (just like more females) but like N3ON said, it's because the character themselves earn a spot in Smash, villain status have nothing to do with it.

King K. Rool is as close to a sure bet as you can get for a newcomer. Ridley also has a decent shot and Bowser Jr. is a plausible contender as well. Dark Samus may have a shot as well if Sakurai recognizes that she is completely different from Samus.

If we're going to stretch the definition of a villain, I would be shocked to see Mewtwo absence from this game. Samurai Goroh may or may not count as a villain, but his chances are good as well.

Anyone else? Not seeing it.

Arcadenik · Jul 31, 2012

These are the new villains I want In SSB4!

jigglover · Jul 31, 2012

I haven't seen ghirahim brought up here. (I haven't finished skyward sword so if he turns out to be a good guy at the end or something then don't say.)
Duck hunt dog is a villain!? :-O Who the heck is top right?

Deleted member · Jul 31, 2012

Oh dear, I forgot about Ghirahim.

He would make a FABULOUS addition to the roster. If there were to be a Zelda rep, it would probably be him.

Arcadenik · Jul 31, 2012

jigglover said:
I haven't seen ghirahim brought up here. (I haven't finished skyward sword so if he turns out to be a good guy at the end or something then don't say.)
Duck hunt dog is a villain!? :-O Who the heck is top right?

The guy on the top right is King Hippo, one of the more famous/popular boxers from Punch-Out!! games.

I think the dog is evil. How else is he able to drive millions of people into rage simply by laughing at their failures? Who is going to suspect a stupid dog as a member of Nintendo Villainy Club?

But seriously, when you are pointing a gun at the dog and all he does is laugh at you, you know he is crazy.

Sage of Ice · Jul 31, 2012

i don't know how to answer this. half the characters i want are out-and-out bad guys, and the other half could be seen as such. but their being villainous isn't why i want them, it's because i find the idea of a plasma-breathing space dragon objectively awesome.

jigglover · Jul 31, 2012

Arcadenik said:
But seriously, when you are pointing a gun at the dog and all he does is laugh at you, you know he is crazy.

LOL!!! Anyway, I didn't count him as a villain, but now I think he is more evil than Bowser wearing Darth Vador's helmet!

N3ON · Jul 31, 2012

Yeah, I forgot about Ghirahim too. I think the further we get from SS, the less likely he becomes, but he's still got a shot, and I'd agree with SSBF, he is the most likely Zelda newcomer. However if he doesn't get in SSB4, I doubt we'll ever play as him in Smash, similarly to Skull Kid and Midna (though Midna isn't a villain). Maybe if we get a MM remake it would boost Skull Kid's chances (I'd love that), but I doubt it'll really affect anything.

I also forgot to mention Black Shadow, who I think would only be implemented in SSB4 if Ganondorf gets a new moveset and Sakurai wants someone to have his old one, an opinion shared with many. Other than that though, and Goroh should be added first.

Opossum · Jul 31, 2012

I think the main reason why people like adding villains is the fact that, in my opinion, anyway, the villains of Nintendo are generally good characters with pretty cool, strong and sometimes outlandish powers.

As far as villains go, I'm personally betting on K. Rool, Ridley, Ghirahim, and if you consider them such, Goroh and Mewtwo.

Mario & Sonic Guy · Jul 31, 2012

The villains that I pretty much see being playable include Bowser Jr., King K. Rool, Ridley, and Black Shadow.

Waluigi · Jul 31, 2012

You know personally if they added a bunch of villains this time around it would be cool if the played into that theme in adventure mode and such a bunch of new villain music adventure mode focuses on the villains all working together to take over the world of smash Epic introduction cutscene.

Also i frekin HATE ghirahim he is literally in the exact same position as zant who was heavily requested in brawl i don't expect much more than a trophy from him MAYBE an AT.

@M&S guy
Bowser Jr
Waluigi
King Boo
Sylux
Dark Samus
Mewtwo
Genesect

Lechteron · Jul 31, 2012

Going off of Waluigi's idea about the villains teaming up in story mode... You know what'd be cool? Being able to play multiple sides of the story? Have the good guys, bad guys, and neutral characters. Three different story modes all around the same story.

lobotheduck21 · Jul 31, 2012

Biggest villain want is alex from golden sun, especially since all we have for water users is squirtle

@I don't consider genesect a villian since it hasn't appeared in anything yet, but who knows, he might be, just not now

Mario & Sonic Guy · Jul 31, 2012

On my end, I really don't treat Mewtwo as a villain, as its savage nature focuses more on fighting powerful opponents, instead of trying to conquer the world.

FlareHabanero · Jul 31, 2012

If I recall correctly, the only time that Mewtwo was actually evil was in Mewtwo Strikes Back. In every other incarnation he is neutral or an anti-hero.

Mario & Sonic Guy · Jul 31, 2012

Habanero said:
If I recall correctly, the only time that Mewtwo was actually evil was in Mewtwo Strikes Back. In every other incarnation he is neutral or an anti-hero.

Well there is the Mirage Mewtwo from that Mirage Pokemon special, but that really doesn't count, as it was being controlled by its own creator.

Deleted member · Jul 31, 2012

Mewtwo is essentially the Akuma of the Pokemon world.
Waits until it sees a worthy opponent, and fights to the death to test their strength (or in Mewtwo's case, to the faint) if they accept the challenge.

Both are ruthless, but not outside of reason. They have enough power to essentially cause mass genocide, but are not bloodthirsty murderers, and only show their power to those they find worthy and are willing to take them on, knowing full well they may not survive.

Whereas people might consider them villains as a result of their way of life, they are not villains.

That being said, Melee established Trophy Mewtwo as a villain in the Smash world, so future Smashes will probably do the same.

Deleted member · Jul 31, 2012

Waluigi said:
Also i frekin HATE ghirahim he is literally in the exact same position as zant who was heavily requested in brawl i don't expect much more than a trophy from him MAYBE an AT.

Hardly. The only thing they have in common are they they are one-shot and that they are insane in personality. Even with the former, we can't say for sure that Ghirahim won't show up in another game as we can't confirm that he actually died.

Plus the situation they were both in are completely different. Zant was controlled by Ganondorf and was used by him, Ghirahim willingly served his master up until the very end.

volbound1700 · Jul 31, 2012

Potential Villian Addition

1. Ridley
2. Mewtwo
3. King K Rool
4. Bowser Jr
5. Fawful
6. Medusa
7. Dr. Robotnik
8. Ghirahim
9. Petey Piranha
10. Demise

Waluigi · Aug 1, 2012

Super Smash Bros. Fan said:
Hardly. The only thing they have in common are they they are one-shot and that they are insane in personality. Even with the former, we can't say for sure that Ghirahim won't show up in another game as we can't confirm that he actually died.

Plus the situation they were both in are completely different. Zant was controlled by Ganondorf and was used by him, Ghirahim willingly served his master up until the very end.

Both were the secondary villain masquerading as the main villain only to get plotjacked seems pretty similar in my book. :lol:

To be honest one of the main reasons i dislike the character is the one game factor if he were in a second title then i might get on board ("maybe" I didn't really like the character in general) But until then i openly oppose him I would rather have Impa if we absolutely OMG need a new zelda rep.

VictoryIsMudkipz · Aug 1, 2012

Yeah, more Villians means More bulk to the story mode, SSE just had about 4 bad guys (not including bosses) Dededee, Wario, Ganondorf, & Bowser, all of the bosses had to play the evil role (except rayquaza) so more playable villians would be cool, I could see Bowser & Bowser Jr. creating chaos in the story mode or maybe even the Wario Bros.. But don't overcrowd the game with villians because then they become filler characters who only serve one purpose, let the villians be double edged swords, being an asset to the story but still being good, playable wise.

Hypercat-Z · Aug 1, 2012

What about Daroach?

http://kirby.wikia.com/wiki/Daroach

jigglover · Aug 1, 2012

Hypercat-Z said:
What about Daroach?

http://kirby.wikia.com/wiki/Daroach

What about no?

Robert of Normandy · Aug 1, 2012

Hypercat-Z said:
What about Daroach?

http://kirby.wikia.com/wiki/Daroach

No, because he's a one-shot villain who isn't very interesting and is overshadowed by other villains. Once Marx or Zero/Dark Matter appear, then we can see about more Kirby Villains.

Anyhow, I fully support Black Shadow, K. Rool, and Ridley for Sm4sh.

Deleted member · Aug 1, 2012

Daroach is an anti-hero.

He helps Kirby out in Mass Attack.

Deleted member · Aug 1, 2012

Waluigi said:
Both were the secondary villain masquerading as the main villain only to get plotjacked seems pretty similar in my book. To be honest one of the main reasons i dislike the character is the one game factor if he were in a second title then i might get on board ("maybe" I didn't really like the character in general) But until then i openly oppose him I would rather have Impa if we absolutely OMG need a new zelda rep.

Ghirahim technically wasn't "plot-jacked" by the main villain. It was his full intention to revive his master and he succeeded in his goal. Plus one of his main goal was to revive his master, which we clearly knew well before it actually happened. Zant was usurp from his position by Ganondorf himself. That is a "plot-jacked".

And not to sound rude, but I think Impa would be an awful addition to the roster. But that's another topic for another day.

TheJohnMonster · Aug 1, 2012

All Impa does is yell at you because she sent Zelda ahead, which was very stupid, and Link was too busy fighting bosses and killing stuff to go help her, and then she blames you for screwing up. Ghirahim was awesome, he was insane and almost homosexual in actions, until he tries to slice your head off. He can teleport and has swords and shoots darts and i can see him catching and opponents weapon and reflecting the damage as a move, or even disabling the weapon. Probably disable it so it won't be another counter. But say donkey kong walks up at tries to throw a punch. If you activated the move, our fabulous demon lord would catch the fist, his hand would glow like in SS, and then that ability would be unable to use for say 10 seconds, just like if he threw your sword away, except you wouldn't have to chase it, just wait. it would have a small time window to compensate for the ability.

Sage of Ice · Aug 1, 2012

christ, i am so very turned off to impa. her whole story in skyward sword was a neat twist, but after coming here... i still twitch a little when i read her name, especially in connection to smash bros.

what were we talking about? ghirahim? right.

what sets ghirahim apart from the likes of zant and majora was that they were very much restricted to their games' storylines. both cases were very open-and-shut, and the characters can't really appear again; there's no way another link could see them before the events of MM or TP, and they're destroyed by the end. (i suppose in theory they could be resurrected somehow, but there's really no very good reason to do so in-story.) ghirahim's got no such hangups - there's no real story reason why he couldn't come back, and as the #1 henchman of the series-wide big bad, i don't feel like we've seen the last of him yet.

Yomi's Biggest Fan · Aug 1, 2012

Potential Villains

SSB4 :cool:

1. Ridley
2. Mewtwo
3. King K Rool
4. Bowser Jr
5. Medusa
6. Ghirahim
7. Skull Kid
8. Masked Man
9. Leon Powalski
10. Black Shadow

SSB5

1. Alex
2. King Hippo
3. Devil
4. N Harmonia
5. Black Knight
6. Dark Matter
7. Captain Syrup
8. Porky
9. Kamek
10. Ashley :troll:

TheJohnMonster · Aug 1, 2012

R.O.B. said:
Potential Villains

SSB4
1. Ridley
2. Mewtwo
3. King K Rool
4. Bowser Jr
5. Medusa
6. Ghirahim
7. Skull Kid
8. Masked Man
9. Leon Powalski
10. Black Shadow

SSB5
1. Alex
2. King Hippo
3. Devil
4. N Harmonia
5. Black Knight
6. Dark Matter
7. Captain Syrup
8. Porky
9. Kamek
10. Ashley

I'm not sure about her chances but what about Dark Samus? Big villain in the Prime Trilogy, final boss in the third Prime.

Yomi's Biggest Fan · Aug 1, 2012

TheJohnMonster said:
I'm not sure about her chances but what about Dark Samus? Big villain in the Prime Trilogy, final boss in the third Prime.

Eh, she ought to wait until SSB5 since I think Sakurai is aiming for only 1 new Metroid rep (Ridley).

Yoshi · Aug 2, 2012

I'm on board for K Rool. If not previously mentioned I throw the suggestion of Baby Bowser since he's become more of a tag along character to Bowser in some games (Mario Kart for example). Could be treated at Pichu-Pikachu in Melee perhaps..

Waluigi · Aug 2, 2012

Super Smash Bros. Fan said:
Ghirahim technically wasn't "plot-jacked" by the main villain. It was his full intention to revive his master and he succeeded in his goal. Plus one of his main goal was to revive his master, which we clearly knew well before it actually happened. Zant was usurp from his position by Ganondorf himself. That is a "plot-jacked".

And not to sound rude, but I think Impa would be an awful addition to the roster. But that's another topic for another day.

There is a bit of difference but the fact still remains that...... neither were the true villain of the game.....

I'm mainly advocating impa as a replacement for sheik so zelda can be her own individual character. by the way but i would be more than happy with the zelda reps staying the same as brawl perhaps cutting toon link but the same overall. I just don't see the point we have the 3 that are absolutely OMG need to be in.

Sage of Ice said:
christ, i am so very turned off to impa. her whole story in skyward sword was a neat twist, but after coming here... i still twitch a little when i read her name, especially in connection to smash bros.

what were we talking about? ghirahim? right.

what sets ghirahim apart from the likes of zant and majora was that they were very much restricted to their games' storylines. both cases were very open-and-shut, and the characters can't really appear again; there's no way another link could see them before the events of MM or TP, and they're destroyed by the end. (i suppose in theory they could be resurrected somehow, but there's really no very good reason to do so in-story.) ghirahim's got no such hangups - there's no real story reason why he couldn't come back, and as the #1 henchman of the series-wide big bad, i don't feel like we've seen the last of him yet.

While that may be true the point still holds that he hasn't appeared in a second title until then he needs to stay out as like it or not he's still in the same boat as the other one shot zelda villains just more recent. And also dissapearing into black smoke similar to the same black smoke that you're master turns into after getting stabbed in the heart is kind of a reason. not the mention the butal butt kicking you got from a dude in a green skirt :troll:

TheJohnMonster said:
All Impa does is yell at you because she sent Zelda ahead, which was very stupid, and Link was too busy fighting bosses and killing stuff to go help her, and then she blames you for screwing up. Ghirahim was awesome, he was insane and almost homosexual in actions, until he tries to slice your head off. He can teleport and has swords and shoots darts and i can see him catching and opponents weapon and reflecting the damage as a move, or even disabling the weapon. Probably disable it so it won't be another counter. But say donkey kong walks up at tries to throw a punch. If you activated the move, our fabulous demon lord would catch the fist, his hand would glow like in SS, and then that ability would be unable to use for say 10 seconds, just like if he threw your sword away, except you wouldn't have to chase it, just wait. it would have a small time window to compensate for the ability.

very much so but she is genuinely more likable later on BUT she has a key advantage over the strange flamboyant man-sword-elf thing multiple titles and series importance she has appeared in several other games most noticeably Ocarina of time like the current three major zelda reps and as stated impa would just replace sheik as an individual character so zelda could be as well.

Venus of the Desert Bloom · Aug 2, 2012

Please don't triple post. If you want to reply to more than one post, just edit your post afterward. It's the big blue button with scissors.

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