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American & Japanese Tier List combined

xDD-Master

xDD-Master

Smash Champion
Joined
Sep 22, 2008
Messages
2,992
Location
Berlin
Most recent Japanese Tier List (22.3.2012)

I got it from AscWolf who asked the japanese players due to his trip to SRT, and they gave him their most recent Tier List, which is from 22. March 2012.
(Original thread from him on the german board: http://forum.germansmash.de/showthread.php?19185)


Top:
S+:

S:

A+:


High:
A:

B:

C+:


Mid:
C:
/

D+:

D:


Low:
E:

F:

G:

H:

I:

[COLLAPSE="Version 2"]
  1. MK
  2. ICs
  3. Olimar
  4. Snake
  5. Falco
  6. Diddy
  7. Fox
  8. Pit
  9. ZSS
  10. Marth
  11. DDD
  12. Wario
  13. Toon Link
  14. ROB
  15. Gaw
  16. Sheilda
  17. Lucario
  18. Ike
  19. Kirby
  20. Peach
  21. DK
  22. Wolf
  23. Sonic
  24. Pikachu
  25. Lucas
  26. Mario
  27. Luigi
  28. Link
  29. Ness
  30. Bowser
  31. Yoshi
  32. PT
  33. Ganondorf
  34. CF
  35. Samus
  36. Jiggs
[/COLLAPSE]

Most Recent American Tier List (28.4.2012)

Top
S: :metaknight:
A: :olimar: :diddy: :popo: :snake:
B: :falco: :marth: :pikachu2: :wario:

High
C: :zerosuitsamus: :lucario: :dedede: :toonlink:

Borderline
D: :wolf: :gw: :fox: :peach: :pit:

Mid
E: :rob: :kirby2: :sheilda: :sonic: :dk2: :ike: :sheik:
F: :yoshi2: :ness2: :pt: :luigi2:

Low
G: :lucas: :mario2: :samus2: :bowser2: :falcon:
H: :jigglypuff: :link2::zelda: :ganondorf:
[COLLAPSE="Version 2"]
  1. Meta Knight
  2. Olimar
  3. Diddy Kong
  4. Ice Climbers
  5. Snake
  6. Falco
  7. Marth
  8. Pikachu
  9. Wario
  10. Zero Suit Samus
  11. Lucario
  12. King Dedede
  13. Toon Link
  14. Wolf
  15. Mr. Game & Watch
  16. Fox
  17. Peach
  18. Pit
  19. R.O.B.
  20. Kirby
  21. Sheilda
  22. Sonic
  23. Donkey Kong
  24. Ike
  25. Yoshi
  26. Ness
  27. Pokémon Trainer
  28. Luigi
  29. Lucas
  30. Mario
  31. Samus
  32. Bowser
  33. Captain Falcon
  34. Jigglypuff
  35. Link
  36. Ganondorf
[/COLLAPSE]


Combined Tier List:
[COLLAPSE="Placings Combined and Divided by 2"]
1 - MK
2.5 - Olimar
3 - ICs
4.5 - Diddy
4.5 - Snake
5.5 - Falco
8.5 - Marth
9.5 - ZSS
10.5 - Wario
11.5 - Fox
11.5 - DDD
13 - Pit
13 - Toon Link
14 - Lucario
15 - Gaw
16 - Pikachu
16.5 - ROB
18 - Wolf
18.5 - Sheilda
18.5 - Peach
19.5 - Kirby
21 - Ike
22 - DK
22.5 - Sonic
27 - Lucas
27.5 - Ness
27.5 - Luigi
28 - Yoshi
28 - Mario
29.5 - PT
31 - Bowser
31.5 - Link
33 - Samus
33.5 - CF
34.5 - Ganondorf
35 - Jigglypuff[/COLLAPSE]Top:
S+:

S:
,

A:
,
,


High:
B:
,
,
,
,

C:
,
,
,
,
,


Mid:
D:
,
+
,
,

E:
,
,


Low:
F:
,
,
,
,
,

H:
,
,
,
,
,


[COLLAPSE="Version 2"]
  1. MK
  2. Olimar
  3. ICs
  4. Diddy
  5. Snake
  6. Falco
  7. Marth
  8. ZSS
  9. Wario
  10. Fox
  11. DDD
  12. Pit
  13. Toon Link
  14. Lucario
  15. Gaw
  16. Pikachu
  17. ROB
  18. Wolf
  19. Sheilda
  20. Peach
  21. Kirby
  22. Ike
  23. DK
  24. Sonic
  25. Lucas
  26. Ness
  27. Luigi
  28. Yoshi
  29. Mario
  30. PT
  31. Bowser
  32. Link
  33. Samus
  34. CF
  35. Ganondorf
  36. Jigglypuff
[/COLLAPSE]

[COLLAPSE="Compared to Japanese Tier List"]
  1. MK (0)
  2. Olimar (+1)
  3. ICs (-1)
  4. Diddy (+2)
  5. Snake (-1)
  6. Falco (-1)
  7. Marth (+3)
  8. ZSS (+1)
  9. Wario (+3)
  10. Fox (-3)
  11. DDD (0)
  12. Pit (-4)
  13. Toon Link (0)
  14. Lucario (+3)
  15. Gaw (0)
  16. Pikachu (+8)
  17. ROB (-3)
  18. Wolf (+4)
  19. Sheilda (-3)
  20. Peach (0)
  21. Kirby (-2)
  22. Ike (-4)
  23. DK (-2)
  24. Sonic (-1)
  25. Lucas (0)
  26. Ness (+3)
  27. Luigi (0)
  28. Yoshi (+3)
  29. Mario (-3)
  30. PT (+2)
  31. Bowser (-1)
  32. Link (-4)
  33. Samus (+2)
  34. CF (0)
  35. Ganondorf (-2)
  36. Jigglypuff (0)
[/COLLAPSE]

[COLLAPSE="Compared to American Tier List"]
  1. MK (0)
  2. Olimar (0)
  3. ICs (+1)
  4. Diddy (-1)
  5. Snake (0)
  6. Falco (0)
  7. Marth (0)
  8. ZSS (+2)
  9. Wario (0)
  10. Fox (+6)
  11. DDD (+1)
  12. Pit (+6)
  13. Toon Link (0)
  14. Lucario (-3)
  15. Gaw (0)
  16. Pikachu (-8)
  17. ROB (+2)
  18. Wolf (-4)
  19. Sheilda (+2)
  20. Peach (-3)
  21. Kirby (-1)
  22. Ike (+2)
  23. DK (0)
  24. Sonic (-2)
  25. Lucas (+4)
  26. Ness (0)
  27. Luigi (+1)
  28. Yoshi (-3)
  29. Mario (+1)
  30. PT (-3)
  31. Bowser (+1)
  32. Link (+3)
  33. Samus (-2)
  34. CF (-1)
  35. Ganondorf (+1)
  36. Jigglypuff (-2)
[/COLLAPSE]
 
Life

Life

Smash Hero
Joined
Jul 19, 2010
Messages
5,264
Location
Grieving No Longer
Sonic too low. Sheilda exists. Pika way too low. Wolf too low. Yoshi too low.

This was a bad idea IMO.

I thought Japan didn't order within tiers anyway.
 
#HBC | Joker

#HBC | Joker

Space Marine
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NNID
HBCJoker
3DS FC
1864-9780-3232
The combined list isn't really that bad, until you get to Low Tier and realize the world makes no sense anymore.

Overall, only a handful of characters are terribly out of place, but they are waaaaaay out of place. Other than that, it just looks sorta... jumbled.
 
S

Shadocat

Smash Ace
Joined
Aug 2, 2011
Messages
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Location
Roanoke, VA
3DS FC
3737-9651-3260
At least Japan realizes that :lucas: is mid-tier worthy

Im guessing :link2: has untapped potential that has yet to be discovered considering how high he is right now.

:pikachu2: and :lucario: are so low though.

LOL at :zerosuitsamus: over :marth: and :wario:.

:kirby2: forever average :(
 
tarextherex

tarextherex

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Mar 1, 2009
Messages
186
Location
Mtl, Qc
PrivateJoker-Brown said:
The combined list isn't really that bad, until you get to High Tier and realize the world makes no sense anymore.
Click to expand...
Fix'd, really

And Link's placement is actually perfect tbh even if you take america's metagame as an exemple, he could even be above Bowser since no one plays him anymore
 
Orion*

Orion*

Smash Researcher
Joined
Jun 1, 2008
Messages
4,503
Location
Dexters Laboratory
I really like this tier list

people can complain about LT but that part of the tier doesn't really matter in all honesty.
 
#HBC | Red Ryu

#HBC | Red Ryu

Red Fox Warrior
Joined
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Messages
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Location
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NNID
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Events would be the only problem in that area, still it's not...uhh useful in the sense it doesn't really work for either region.
 
Luigisama

Luigisama

Smash Champion
Joined
Jun 25, 2010
Messages
2,957
Location
New york
wow luigi and mario dropped like rocks since the last tier list for Japan. Imo I think their luigis, mario, other low tiers and mid tiers etc metagame isn't as developed as other like US and EU. Sure they know stuff, but they probably don't have players who put their all into a character.

Weird since they play for no money over there.
 
Sorto

Sorto

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jul 21, 2008
Messages
409
A lot of decent characters got ranked into lower tiers when these lists were combined then many would expect. The reason for this can most likely be 1 of 2 reasons. Reason 1, that specific characters metagame has evolved more in one country then another. I would use americas pikachu as an example. In america, Pikachu is higher ranked character mainly because of Esam and the popularity that Esam brought to Pikachu. Esam was a good player, picked up what seemed like a mediorce character and learned the character, figured out tricks with the character and helped cause evolution to that characters metagame. After players saw that pikachu could win major tournies they picked him up and caused further evolution to pikas metagame. In this case, I would feel, that the country with the higher ranking for a character would be MORE accurate as they have a higher developed metagame for that character. Reason 2 that rankings would differ is because the evolution of metagame occured like in reason 1 but then further evolution to the casts metagame made the threat that intial character respresented seem not so threatening. After a few months/years the tricks were figured out and the character was not seen as such a threat. In this case the country with the character ranked lower would be more accurate because there metagame would be further evolved.

So what does this lead me to conclusion wise? Pretty much it gave me an interesting idea for how to mix these tier lists with more then just averaging.

I would argue that Reason 1 in my argument is the more likely scenario. I have never heard of a pit that had results like esam in america. Which means we never faced a metagame that caused us to EVOLVE to play against pits. So we can't be in reason 2 land. And japan seems to think pit is like american pika status. So maybe there is a player in japan doing what esam is doing in america.

I am at work, but maybe when I have time I will do what I am explaing.

Concept:

1) Order the characters by the HIGHEST ranking they have recieved between the two tier lists.
ex: MK(1), Olimar=IC(2), Diddy(3),Snake(4), etc

2) For any place there is a tie. Use the average ranking between the two tier lists to break the tie

ex: MK(1), Olimar=IC(2)
On avg Olimar (2.5), IC(3), therefore
MK(1), Olimar(2), IC(3), Diddy(4), Snake(5), etc.
 
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