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more representation for less popular games.

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nessokman

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You probably know this for fact. Nintendo's top 3-4 franchises make up near 4/5 of the games characters.Zelda,Pokemon, and mario make up a large portion of the characters.i feel as though lesser games are thrown to the side.Kirby i understand because sakurai made kirby (if i recall).I think games like mother deserve more recognition.let's face it, mother didn't get squat compared to mario.Two characters, around 7 trophies, a stage and melee stage.that is far more than what kid icarus got!i think sakurai needs to wake up and stop throwing us characters that are already overused.he should give us more that we don't know.

edit:smash bros is about the best nintendo has to offer in one single game.

anyone agree?
 

Venus of the Desert Bloom

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MOTHER is a dying series that hasn't had a game in over 10 years. Sure, there are plenty of characters to pull from the series but, in the end, it comes down to how these characters can sell the game. And MOTHER is a relatively unknown game outside of Japan.

For a rather minor (but interesting series), I'm surprised it got the amount of attention that it did in Brawl. As well, those series you mentioned are flag ship series so its a no-brained they are more represented than MOTHER, F-Zero, Pikmin, Wario, Kid Icarus, etc.

As for unknown characters, I'd rather him expand less into veteran franchises and explore lesser known franchises such as Sin and Punishment, Takamaru, Golden Sun, etc.

I don't agree with your meaning of Smash Bros. But that is the beauty of the series: it's open to what you perceive the meaning is.

I take SSB as a celebration of Nintendo's history, present, and future in a format that everyone can enjoy.
:phone:
 

nessokman

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MOTHER is a dying series that hasn't had a game in over 10 years. Sure, there are plenty of characters to pull from the series but, in the end, it comes down to how these characters can sell the game. And MOTHER is a relatively unknown game outside of Japan.

For a rather minor (but interesting series), I'm surprised it got the amount of attention that it did in Brawl. As well, those series you mentioned are flag ship series so its a no-brained they are more represented than MOTHER, F-Zero, Pikmin, Wario, Kid Icarus, etc.

As for unknown characters, I'd rather him expand less into veteran franchises and explore lesser known franchises such as Sin and Punishment, Takamaru, Golden Sun, etc.

I don't agree with your meaning of Smash Bros. But that is the beauty of the series: it's open to what you perceive the meaning is.

I take SSB as a celebration of Nintendo's history, present, and future in a format that everyone can enjoy.
:phone:
no.mother's last game was mother 3 in 2006.mother has a cult following in the u.s.There are tons of fans.there is even a fan translation of mother 3.people here love it.they should have put the masked man from mother 3 in brawl, but that is a story told before.they do need to lay back on the mario.Let some newer franchises join in. Sakurai probably loves him some nostalgia.
 

Venus of the Desert Bloom

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Yeah but publicly it is a rather obscure franchise. I was under the impression Mother 3 was in 2003 for some odd reason. Regardless, the flag ship series has a much higher priority within Nintendo.

If I'm getting you correctly, do you believe that franchises like Mario and LoZ are over represented? That is the feeling I am getting from you. Kirby received two characters because they were highly requested. In fact, King Dedede was one of the most requested newcomer for both SSBM and SSBB.

So I imagine if The Masked Man or other Mother characters are highly requested, they may have a chance. However, compiled with a lack of relevancy and disinterest, a Mother newcomer is slightly unlikely. None of they are requested much and have little fan support.

Oh and this can be carried over into the Roster discussion. It doesn't merit it's own thread.

:phone:
 

nessokman

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yet people asked for geno from super mario rpg and never got him.it's not just mother, nintendo seems to think that smash bros has to be almost full of characters from their most popular series to be successful. they seem to push characters that could be as successful in smash bros aside
 

N3ON

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You probably know this for fact. Nintendo's top 3-4 franchises make up near 4/5 of the games characters.Zelda,Pokemon, and mario make up a large portion of the characters.i feel as though lesser games are thrown to the side.Kirby i understand because sakurai made kirby (if i recall).I think games like mother deserve more recognition.let's face it, mother didn't get squat compared to mario.Two characters, around 7 trophies, a stage and melee stage.that is far more than what kid icarus got!i think sakurai needs to wake up and stop throwing us characters that are already overused.he should give us more that we don't know.

edit:smash bros is about the best nintendo has to offer in one single game.

anyone agree?
Nintendo's top 4 franchises with playable characters (Mario, Zelda, Pokemon, and DK -- not Kirby) make up 14/35 of the roster, which is 2/5, not 4/5. Even if they did make up the majority of the roster, that's entirely justifiable, they are without a doubt the most popular and well-known of Nintendo's characters among the mass market, and with the general non-hardcore gamer have high recognition value, which is important for a "spin-off" series that strays from its original playstyle, as Smash does to every series involved.

Personally, I would enjoy more characters from less well-known Nintendo games as well, but honestly we should be grateful that a series like Mother, F-Zero, and especially the retro ones get the amount of content they do, considering how minor they are compared to the top series. If actual sales directly effected the roster, Mario, Pokemon, and Zelda would make up like 90% of the roster, as opposed to the 30-something they make up now, and characters from Mother, F-Zero, Fire Emblem, etc would be nowhere to be seen.

Sure, there are a few series that based on the ratio of popularity to playable representation could use a few more reps (like Metroid), or seemed over-repped (like Starfox), but overall the roster is very well balanced, series-wise. There is a reason Mario gets four when F-Zero gets one, and believe me, it could be even more justifiably unbalanced.

As for filling up the roster with unknowns, that would be pretty illogical. Really, the average Smasher only knows about 50%-75% of the roster from outside of Smash, if that. If Sakurai filled up the game with unknowns, it really wouldn't help the hype of the game and would anger many people when logical popular choices aren't included in favor of some semi-popular minor supporting character or obscure protagonist. Sure, a few lesser known characters are fine, and Sakurai does include a couple with each game, but if it became the majority, then there would be more negatives than positives.

yet people asked for geno from super mario rpg and never got him.it's not just mother, nintendo seems to think that smash bros has to be almost full of characters from their most popular series to be successful. they seem to push characters that could be as successful in smash bros aside
I'm not sure what you're arguing here. If Geno was included, he would be a relatively unknown character compared to other ones which you seem to be for, but he would also be another Mario rep, which you seem to be against.

Sakurai includes (for the most part) characters that are important to their series, because it fits the All-Star theme that the games used to promote, and because the most important characters are also usually the most popular. There are a few people clamoring for unknowns, and Sakurai even manages to deliver on that (sure the hardcore knew, but how many others knew who Pit, ROB, and Lucas (outside Japan) were?). It's not illogical that they would want to include characters that would make people want to play the game, like Venus said ↓↓, and it's not like the choices Sakurai makes are unwarranted or imbalanced.
 

Venus of the Desert Bloom

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Genocide is Square-Enix's property. Nintendo doesn't own them and SE hasn't shown any instance of giving him over to Nintendo.

The only reason why Sonic got in was due to the sheer demand for him. And even that was almost not enough to get him in hence why he had no true impact in SE and his late announcement.

Additionally, they have to include characters that will make people want to play the game. Mario and Pokemon characters have much more popularity over lesser know characters. For example, Lucario was much more requested compared to a F-Zero rep.

SSBB got Lucas which was MOTHER 3's rep. Diamond and Pearl didn't get a second rep, Wind Waker either and nor did Fire Emblem: Radiant Dawn. In fact, FE has the same amount of characters to Mother YET Fire Emblem is a immensely popular series in Japan and continues to produce games. Some franchises are chosen over others.

Incidentally, Mario never received a newcomer in SSBB, LoZ lost Young Link and got Toon Link, and Pokemon lost Pichu and Mewtwo and gained Lucario and PKMN trainer.

Seems fairly balanced to me.

:phone:
 

Weedy Spyze

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MOTHER is a dying series that hasn't had a game in over 10 years. Sure, there are plenty of characters to pull from the series but, in the end, it comes down to how these characters can sell the game. And MOTHER is a relatively unknown game outside of Japan.

For a rather minor (but interesting series), I'm surprised it got the amount of attention that it did in Brawl. As well, those series you mentioned are flag ship series so its a no-brained they are more represented than MOTHER, F-Zero, Pikmin, Wario, Kid Icarus, etc.
Mother isn't a dying series, it's an ended series. And the newest game is only six years old (and pretty much brand new when Brawl was released). Regardless that's not a reason for it to be ignored when it comes to potential new characters. Yeah it may be more obscure than many other series, but it still has its loyal fans. The creater of the Mother series is even one of the most influential cultural figures in Japan. I'm not saying Mother should get about six new characters, but there is one character I'd like to see at least. But I'd be happy with just having Ness and Lucas again.

Anyway, I agree that when it comes to new characters, I'd rather the focus be on interesting choices from lesser represented franchises (including brand new franchises), rather than just throwing in any Mario or Zelda character just for the sake of having another one. Series like Mario, Kirby, and StarFox are represented well enough as is, they don't need any new characters because we've already got the ones that matter. But that's just my opinion.
 

~ Valkyrie ~

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While I'm a supporter of lesser known Nintendo-characters, I think Smash Bros's popularity and audience would go much smaller, only catering to hardcore Nintendo-fans instead of both longtime fans and casuals alike, if it had mostly lesser known series being used for majority of the roster. N3On's not lying when saying that not much people know all the series represented in Smash outside of it just like that (expect hardcore Nintendo-fans).

I think the inclusion of these lesser known series is more to a fanservice and dedication to longtime Nintendo-fans and maybe the smaller population of fans behind those series. Kid Icarus maybe was this? (-l.l-); And indeed, not the majority of series in Smash are just "popular series". (-l_l-);
 

Arcadenik

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IMO, the most likely new franchises added to Smash would be Punch-Out!! (Little Mac), Murasame Castle (Takamaru), Xenoblade Chronicles (Shulk), and Wii Sports (Mii). There's also a good chance that Balloon Fight (Balloon Fighter) might be added - my reasoning based on Nintendo Land - but Sakurai already rejected him just like he rejected Animal Crossing characters. My reasoning for handpicking these franchises is because they seem to be the most successful new games in recent years and have the most references in other games that aren't from their own franchises (Takamaru, Balloon Fighter, Mii).
 

SureNsync

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This is an interesting thread. I'm a supporter of lesser known Nintendo franchises as well and If Sakurai add a roster of 45 or 50 characters, the Nintendo franchises I feel should get more reps is the Fire Emblem series since it have over 12 titles released and the Mother series.
 

Sharkarat

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Compared to the series not the big five (Mario, DK, Zelda, Pokémon & Kirby), I would imo say Mother has pretty good representation. I think they should prioritise unrepped series before mother.
 

Tetra's Tracker

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Unfortunately the vast majority of the new characters are going to be Mario, Zelda, Pokemon and third parties. Hardcore Nintendo fans isn't the primary audience Smash is aimed at anymore, it's the casuals and general video game fans Nintendo want to appeal to - the ones that bring in the big $£€¥. The casuals only want characters they've heard of, which is from a very small pool, so that is what they'll get. If we end up getting Little Mac and one of Isaac and Shulk we should think ourselves very lucky.
 
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