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Dream of Our Generation: Potential Rhythm Heaven Fighters

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Yitsul

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all I can think of for fighters are Marshall,
I can imagine 2 special moves based off of Rhythm Heaven Fever/Beat the Beat's Credits Minigame, and Karate Joe
who has appeared in every rhythm heaven game with a new move up his sleeve each game. discuss
 

Frostwraith

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hmm... the OP could have more details about the franchise, as I (and likely other people as well) don't know much about it. other than that, I'm not opposed to have a new series represented.
 

~ Valkyrie ~

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I dunno if Rhythm Heaven should get a rep. If so, then either Marshall or Karate Joe. But I think the series would feel more like being a franchise featured in a similar way to Animal Crossing. (-övö-)

On the other hand, we don't want ANOTHER HANENBOW, do we? Just wishing they get it right this time when doing a stage based on musical gimmicks.
 

Yitsul

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for stages, I can think of Working Dough from Rhythm Heaven Fever/Beat the Beat
 

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I doubt we would get a Rhythm Heaven character. I think we might get a stage that is like a cross between WarioWare, Inc. and Hanenbow. I would be shocked if this series got a character though!
 

~ Valkyrie ~

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Arcadenik: I wouldn't since I'm a longtime Rhythm Heaven-fan. But I'd be though bit confused too because I don't really see it needing a rep. (-l´l-)
 

Yitsul

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cans someone make a Marshall support stamp? I would love that
 

3Bismyname

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i feel like this will Rhythm Heaven will just get the Animal Crossing Treatment from Brawl. it definitely deserves acknowledgement but a whole character is a little difficult, even more so than Animal Crossing was.
 

Yitsul

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I think the opposite, rhythm heaven has some fighting unlike animal crossing
 

3Bismyname

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it has fighting in the sense that Elite Beat Agents, or Warioware have fighting. it's part of a few select minigames in a game filled with mini games. but unlike those two series, Rhythm Heaven has no definitive main characters to the franchise. but like i said, it does warrant the shoutout.
 

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Rhythm Heaven is one of the few significant original IPs to develop from inside Nintendo's in-house developers (Intelligent Systems, no less). This alone makes it deserve a spot. In a world where unique characters and IPs are dwindling, it'd be quirky and fun to have this brilliant series represented in Smash Bros. with a playable character.

A simple stage would not do, in my opinion. When a character is made playable, it's just as much a statement about their franchise and history as it is about their control style. A RH character would do proper justice to the series, which is a colorful, character-driven one that has a lot to draw from.

My personal choice would be Marshal. He could use attacks from many different RH games, and use rhythm-based punches and kicks for his Normals.

Some ideas for Specials:

Neutral Special: Together Now! - This move is inspired by the game "Glee Club" from Rhythm Heaven DS, in which Marshal sings with two similar looking fellows. In Smash Bros., when the B button is pressed, Marshal throws back his head and sings (or rather, screams) a loud note, sending a small shockwave in all directions. This attack can be fired off very rapidly, making it great for intercepting and nullifying projectiles, and it packs quite a punch if a foe is touching you while you use it. This move can also be used while moving.

Side Special: Staff Roll - This move is taken from the "Credits" game in Rhythm Heaven Fever. Marshal curls up into a ball and rolls very quickly (you don't have to keep holding the attack button). You can turn around and do a small hop while in ball form, but you won't do any damage until you hit the Special button again. When you do, a loud clap noise will play and Marshal will jump into the air a bit. You can attack and have all your jumps when you jump out of the ball form. Really, this move is for getting out of tough situations quickly, but it also has recovery applications, and you can use it to sneak into a crowd with an explosive item and blow your foes away!

More later, perhaps. I wish I knew more about the original Rhythm Heaven for the GBA. They should gimme dat on 3DS VC.
 

Yitsul

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I exactly thought of that for his side special! my thought of up special: Balloons, just look at the beginning of night walk
 

3Bismyname

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Rhythm Heaven is one of the few significant original IPs to develop from inside Nintendo's in-house developers (Intelligent Systems, no less). This alone makes it deserve a spot. In a world where unique characters and IPs are dwindling, it'd be quirky and fun to have this brilliant series represented in Smash Bros. with a playable character.

A simple stage would not do, in my opinion. When a character is made playable, it's just as much a statement about their franchise and history as it is about their control style. A RH character would do proper justice to the series, which is a colorful, character-driven one that has a lot to draw from.
the same argument can be said for Animal Crossing but they didn't make it into Brawl and their legacy makes them far more viable candidate than Rhythm Heaven's does. and while i do agree that with Rhythm Heaven being first party it deserves recognition, it's sales and general reception weren't anything spectacular. the DS version was the only one that broke 1 million copies sold. and when referencing the whole world that's really not a lot. the Wii and Gameboy advance games weren't even able to sell half of that. critical reception is average at best and general populace are frankly unaware of the series existance. there are lots of IPs that are deserving of a spot and sad to say Rhythm Heaven just falls bellow most of them. but hey that's just me taking my fanboy glasses off.
 

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the same argument can be said for Animal Crossing but they didn't make it into Brawl and their legacy makes them far more viable candidate than Rhythm Heaven's does. and while i do agree that with Rhythm Heaven being first party it deserves recognition, it's sales and general reception weren't anything spectacular. the DS version was the only one that broke 1 million copies sold. and when referencing the whole world that's really not a lot. the Wii and Gameboy advance games weren't even able to sell half of that. critical reception is average at best and general populace are frankly unaware of the series existance. there are lots of IPs that are deserving of a spot and sad to say Rhythm Heaven just falls bellow most of them. but hey that's just me taking my fanboy glasses off.
Well, I'll tell you that sales aren't a great indicator of popularity (Earthbound says hi), but I also don't think you've taken into account that Japan is CRAZY over these games. I'll point you to Fire Emblem for an example of a series that made its way into Smash Bros. based on overseas popularity alone. Besides that, RH is young. It hasn't gained super duper mainstream appeal because its a somewhat niche and new series.

Oh, and about Animal Crossing. I'm one of the biggest advocates ever for an AC character. I think that the general perception of the series getting a playable character is skewed just a bit because of the unfortunate circumstances that surrounded Brawl's development cycle. Sakurai has mentioned that he was considering making the Villager playable, using his tools to fight, but that there were other characters that out-prioritized him. However, most people latch onto the Iwata Asks quote, where he places an AC character alongside a Nintendog and says it doesn't make sense for them to fight. I think it was a bit of a generalization, and hopefully Sakurai realizes that the legacy of the Animal Crossing series is too significant for it to be denied one of the most sought-after roles for Nintendo characters.

I think an AC character will definitely be on the table for SSB4, and I'd honestly be surprised if one doesn't make the cut. This time, Sakurai has less to draw from for characters, and if he even considers an AC character, there's not too many that would out-prioritize it this time.

But yeah, Rhythm Heaven. It's niche, it's wacky, it screams "Nintendo." I'm not saying that it's altogether likely this time around, but I would really love to see Marshal.
 

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for animal crossing I thought of since the brawl days Ai from the animal crossing movie, but this is irrelevant to rhythm heaven :/
 

~ Valkyrie ~

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Yu would fit more, he's more of the fighting type.

But I like the ideas you guys have for Marshall, maybe he'd be not too out of place if added.
 

Yitsul

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well, enough animal crossing talk, this a rhythm heaven thread. and I really wanna see marshall too
 

SmashChu

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Rhythm Heaven is one of the few significant original IPs to develop from inside Nintendo's in-house developers (Intelligent Systems, no less).
It's done by Nintendo in house actually. Not IS.

No surprise, no one understands Rhythm Heaven. No surprise. It's also not a big series here. It's more popular in Japan.

FYI, Marshal has only appeared in Rhythm Heaven Fever. He's never been in the other games. The problem with Rhythm Heaven is it lacks a stand out character. The series itself is rather big with the DS one selling 3 million. It even had a live concert segment for it (can't find the video). As far as character, karate Joe is the closest to the main character. He was the first game in the GBA game and has appeared in every game. He is the last game in the DS and Wii versions and he has a unique song.

It's not the most likely, but a Rhythm Heaven character is not out of the realm of possibilities. I am 100% sure a stage will happen.

the same argument can be said for Animal Crossing but they didn't make it into Brawl and their legacy makes them far more viable candidate than Rhythm Heaven's does. and while i do agree that with Rhythm Heaven being first party it deserves recognition, it's sales and general reception weren't anything spectacular. the DS version was the only one that broke 1 million copies sold. and when referencing the whole world that's really not a lot. the Wii and Gameboy advance games weren't even able to sell half of that. critical reception is average at best and general populace are frankly unaware of the series existance. there are lots of IPs that are deserving of a spot and sad to say Rhythm Heaven just falls bellow most of them. but hey that's just me taking my fanboy glasses off.
The difference is that an Animal Crossing character really couldn't fight. With Rhythm Heaven, it's the lack of a solid character. Karate Joe comes close, but it may be a stretch.
 
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Honestly, I would agree that Karate Joe is the closest thing to a solid character, appearing in all the titles.

But I disagree on the "Animal Crossing character really couldn't fight" part. Sakurai even said that he could have had the player character fight using tools like the shovel and bug net, but he felt he needed to prioritize characters that fit the fighting vibe more due to not being able to include every popular character.

And if anything else, Resetti would definitely fit the fighting vibe, what with wildly swinging a pickaxe, yelling at people, and even bragging about his fighting prowess in Brawl during one of his rants. He would fit more as a fighter than R.O.B. did prior to Brawl, just saying.
 

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It's done by Nintendo in house actually. Not IS.

No surprise, no one understands Rhythm Heaven. No surprise. It's also not a big series here. It's more popular in Japan.

FYI, Marshal has only appeared in Rhythm Heaven Fever. He's never been in the other games. The problem with Rhythm Heaven is it lacks a stand out character. The series itself is rather big with the DS one selling 3 million. It even had a live concert segment for it (can't find the video). As far as character, karate Joe is the closest to the main character. He was the first game in the GBA game and has appeared in every game. He is the last game in the DS and Wii versions and he has a unique song.
I do know that IS team members do quite a bit of work on the RH games, even if IS isn't directly credited. But yeah.

And Marshal didn't appear by name in the other two games, per se, but a character who looks identical appeared in Rhythm Tengoku (Night Walk) and in Rhythm Tengoku Gold (Glee Club). Plus, RH is a series known for keeping unnamed characters running, like how one of the members of the Clapping Trio from Rhythm Tengoku is the director of the Glee Club in Rhythm Tengoku Gold.

But yeah, Karate Joe would be fine, I guess. I think I lean more toward Marshal because Karate Joe is kinda "eh" for me, just because he's more humanoid and punchy and kicky, but I would gladly take any Rhythm Heaven character. Not that I think it's altogether likely or super high-priority at this point, but it would be a pleasant surprise to say the least.

And the "can't/doesn't/shouldn't" fight thing doesn't fly with me. Like ever. Sorry, Sakurai, but you can't say that. Just can't.
 

PsychoIncarnate

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I've never heard of Rhythm Heaven but if it's another mini game ridden game I'll pass. Those get boring fast.
 

SmashChu

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But I disagree on the "Animal Crossing character really couldn't fight" part. Sakurai even said that he could have had the player character fight using tools like the shovel and bug net, but he felt he needed to prioritize characters that fit the fighting vibe more due to not being able to include every popular character.

And if anything else, Resetti would definitely fit the fighting vibe, what with wildly swinging a pickaxe, yelling at people, and even bragging about his fighting prowess in Brawl during one of his rants. He would fit more as a fighter than R.O.B. did prior to Brawl, just saying.
I agree that an Animal Crossing could work. But Sakurai doesn't. So that's that. I do think the Crosser would fit better, especially as you play as him.

I do know that IS team members do quite a bit of work on the RH games, even if IS isn't directly credited. But yeah.

And Marshal didn't appear by name in the other two games, per se, but a character who looks identical appeared in Rhythm Tengoku (Night Walk) and in Rhythm Tengoku Gold (Glee Club). Plus, RH is a series known for keeping unnamed characters running, like how one of the members of the Clapping Trio from Rhythm Tengoku is the director of the Glee Club in Rhythm Tengoku Gold.

But yeah, Karate Joe would be fine, I guess. I think I lean more toward Marshal because Karate Joe is kinda "eh" for me, just because he's more humanoid and punchy and kicky, but I would gladly take any Rhythm Heaven character. Not that I think it's altogether likely or super high-priority at this point, but it would be a pleasant surprise to say the least.
Those characters aren't Marshall. In Glee Club, it is mentioned that they are just some random choir. Not sure about the GBA one, but I figure it's not as the Wii one is kind of playing homage to it. He's more of a one time thing.

Karate Joe fits pretty well. he'll just use Rhythm Karate.
 

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I think Marshall is becoming Rhythm heaven's new mascot. the series only has 3 games so far so hopefully we'll see a new Rhythm heaven on 3DS before Smash Bros. 4 I see a lot of potential in Marshall
 
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Read my post again.
I stated that he DOES feel it can work. Just that he felt the need to prioritize others.
I'm not on my main computer since it's acting out, so I can't provide the proof on-hand, but StarPhoenix is the one to talk to for a confirmation.
 

SmashChu

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Read my post again.
I stated that he DOES feel it can work. Just that he felt the need to prioritize others.
I'm not on my main computer since it's acting out, so I can't provide the proof on-hand, but StarPhoenix is the one to talk to for a confirmation.
Proof would be nice, if you can get to it.
 
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On my main computer for who knows how long, so I got the proof.
I had forgotten that I had two sources of proof; Starphoenix and ChronoBound.

http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=14333871&postcount=98436
http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=14363793&postcount=99629

However, the sources are a bit conflicting; both say that he said he could make the player work by using tools to fight, but Star's says that he decided not to in order to prioritize, and Chrono's simply says the characters are too removed from Smash's violent image and that Sakurai was joking about making them fight.
If Star is correct, AC is still viable for a character.
If Chrono is correct, AC will remain characterless unless New Leaf provides any excuse to why them fighting would be ok.
 

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And here in the real world, everyone who supports an AC character, or otherwise just loves the series and wants to be able to control an AC character in Smash, will continue to scratch their heads and wonder why Sakurai suddenly draws the line for being "too far removed from the violent image" at Animal Crossing, when that has never stopped him from adding such characters before. The idea is dumb. Sorry Sakruai, but it's dumb. Suck it up an realize that Smash Bros. isn't "violent" in any sense that isn't cartoony. Sorry, but Peach is just as removed from the "violent" image of Smash Bros., and her using parasols, golf clubs, tennis raquets, and frying pans is just as "silly" as a Villager using tools. Characters don't need excuses to be able to fight. This is freaking Smash Bros. Oh my God.

END OF RANT. Sorry, just talking about AC characters gets me kinda riled up.

But yeah, an RH character. Whoo!
 
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Peach has done her share of participating in fights.
Super Mario RPG
Super Mario Bros. 2 (even if it was a dream by Mario; afterall, her floating and vegetables come from the game)
Various Mario Parties before and after her debut in Melee
Other Sports games where characters get particularly violent, such as Sports Mix and the Strikers games
Super Princess Peach

You can't compare Peach to a Villager, who's only sense of violence within their series is hitting people with bug nets and digging pits for them to fall in for practical joke.
I'm not saying that Sakurai is necessarily right in his decision, but you're kind of grasping at straws when comparing Peach to them.
 

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My comparison wasn't so much to demonstrate that Peach doesn't fight, but rather if you take into account the ridiculously subjective criterion of who makes sense for the "violent" nature of Smash Bros., then it's just that, ridiculous. I'm more hitting on the idea that Sakurai is commenting on a character's nature. I think the comparison could be made for a few characters.

Peach "fights" in some games, yeah. But when you think of a "sense of violence," she's pretty low on the list. Characters like Peach, who are not necessarily "violent by nature," are in Smash Bros. because they're icons. They're important to Nintendo history, and they're notable enough to warrant being playable.

Peach is docile. So docile, in fact, that pretty much every Mario game involves saving a helpless, kidnapped Peach. Tell me this isn't something you could see Sakurai saying if Peach weren't already in Smash:

"Peach? Well, we considered her for awhile. Though, it didn't make much sense for her to fight since she's always being kidnapped by Bowser, and she doesn't really fight back! We decided against it in the end, as she doesn't much fit the violent image of Smash Bros."

I'm not saying that that statement would be correct, but it's something that could easily be said about a few characters who are in Smash Bros. because of their status first, and their "violent image" last.
 
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Except that with her track record of actual fighting, it renders it null and void to the point that the comparison can't be given.

The Villager, unlike these supposed characters, has pretty much nothing. Not only does he theoretically not fit the vibe, but neither does his series.
I'm going to make a few guesses at who you are going to say would be compared.
Peach, I already covered.
Zelda, has done actual fighting in Wind Waker, Twilight Princess, and Spirit Tracks in order to assist Link take down Ganondorf and Malladus. Prior to that, she is implied to have had off-screen action in OoT as her Sheik persona, even to the point that there is official artwork of Link and Sheik back to back against a horde of enemies with her knife drawn.
http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/_.../Link_and_Sheik_Battle_Ganondorf's_Hordes.png
Mr. Game & Watch? Technically, he doesn't exist in the Game & Watch series; there is no "Mr. Game & Watch" in those old games. He is based on the various generic characters within all the games, however, and the characters themselves have done violent actions, such as hitting moles (Vermin) and each other (Judge) with hammers, and throwing firesticks and otherwise try to set buildings on fire (Fire Attack).
Kind of different from a game where the objective is to live a happy life, and the only form of "violence" available is to put a bug net over someone's head or dig pitfalls for practical joke.
R.O.B., is more of a clean slate than anything. He was a peripheral, rather than a real character, which means, if making him into a character, there is nothing that states he can or can't fit a fighting vibe. Though if you want to get technical, he did participate in the rather chaotic racing of Mario Kart in MKDS, and a giant R.O.B. served as a boss in one of the Boss Microgames in WarioWare: Smooth Moves wielding a NES Zapper, in the game based off of StarFox. And then the whole R.O.B. Squad deal, although that's a case of the chicken and the egg, whether Sakurai thought to include the Squad first or R.O.B. as a character first.
Olimar, while not known for fighting, persay, his series is about survival by controlling Pikmin to attack. In Brawl, he fights by....controlling Pikmin to attack.
 

8-peacock-8

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The closest will see to anything violent in animal crossing is in the Nintendo Land mini game and thats not even the villagers. It's the Mii.

Also, why don't you two bring the animal crossing conversation to the Villager thread. :urg:
 

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Couldn't be farther from boring. It's got all the charm and bit-sized fun of Warioware, but with rhythm. Hugely fun games.
The charm of games that get boring after the first time you play them?

Is Warioware a multiple playthrough kind of thing?
 

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@Golden
I'll leave it at this to not derail this thread, but the fact that one has to pick out certain games from a character's appearances and point out times that they assisted a main characters just to qualify choices for fighters thus far speaks to what I'm trying to say.

Yeah, I'm not denying that Animal Crossing is a peaceful series, and that the game contains no conventional violence or conflict. But I am saying that four out of five of those characters you listed are not playable because they come from games that are violent, or because they themselves have fought or displayed violence before. Peach, Zelda, Mr. G&W, and R.O.B. are in Smash Bros. because of who they are, not because of their "combat experience. The fact that we have to qualify their fighting experience with things like your list is a good indicator of that. I honestly think your justification for why Mr. G&W fits a fighting atmosphere is "grasping for straws." I'm not saying that any of those characters are more or less "violent" than an AC character, but pretend we're not comparing them to an AC character. They're most often nonviolent.

I understand that bolded statement may be a bit inflammatory, but that's just the way I see it. I'm not saying that who a character is should be taken into more careful consideration than a workable playstyle, but you can't tell me that Sakurai looked at Peach and said, "We should include her because she's fought in a few of her playable roles." I'm thinking Sakurai looked at Peach and said, "Well, she's the Princess of the Mushroom Kingdom, and she's a really big part of Super Mario."

Oh, and as for using past combat roles to determine Peach's moveset, one of her biggest staring roles (Super Princess Peach) has been almost completely ignored by Sakurai. Yeah, he gave her the floating and Vegetables from SMB2, but that's all she's got from her "fighting" roles.

Here, final statement that really sums up how I feel:
I'm only asking that Sakurai extend the same consideration to characters and series that have clout and that also have potential for fun and interesting playstyles. "Doesn't make sense to fight" feels like a cop-out.


@Psycho
You're sort of bumming me out Psycho. Why you no like WarioWare?

Rhythm Heaven games aren't short like WarioWare's Microgames. I can't think of one that lasts less than 90 seconds. The songs are catchy, and it's oddly gratifying to time your button presses to the rhythm, especially when the game and characters react accordingly. Plus, getting rewarded for perfect runs with little unlockables gives the games a decent amount of replay value.

I suggest you try one before you knock 'em. You might end up really liking them!
 

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An Animal Crossing character, Nook, is in my top wanted characters. I have no problem with a character not showing violence before being put in smash bros.
 
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@Breadbug:
I never said that they were in because of their combat experience. What I am saying is that the fact they do have combat experience makes them not comparable to the situation at hand.

Do I agree with the situation? No. I mean we have Phoenix Wright in UMvC3, who does not like to use violence to solve disputes, no matter how justified it is. That alone is a big indicator that non-violence should not be an issue.
However, the issue is what it is, and to try to claim others fit what has been said for the non-violent characters just because they are usually the damsel in distress or what have you is completely asinine and a way to try to find hypocracy that simply isn't there and is, as you put my description of G&W, "grasping at straws". I mean, at least there's a game in the G&W series that's about hitting other people with a hammer. I guess giving people concussions for sport isn't violent.

And as an FYI, Super Mario RPG; she slaps enemies and hits them with frying pans. In Smash, her main method of direct combat is slapping. And one of the things she hits people with in her Forward Smash is a frying pan.


EDIT: As to say something more on-topic, I honestly don't see much to offer for a character, as the series is not character-centric. Closest thing to a major recurring character would be Karate Joe, due to being in all three games in the series. But even then, he's still obscure. A stage would be best for this series unless Karate Joe is really a reasonable option.
EDIT:
How many people would be scratching their heads if this guy was among the roster?
 

SmashChu

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EDIT: As to say something more on-topic, I honestly don't see much to offer for a character, as the series is not character-centric. Closest thing to a major recurring character would be Karate Joe, due to being in all three games in the series. But even then, he's still obscure. A stage would be best for this series unless Karate Joe is really a reasonable option.
EDIT:
How many people would be scratching their heads if this guy was among the roster?
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That's the point of Smash.
 

~ Valkyrie ~

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I guess I can expect Lip because she'll definitely be making people scratch their heads.

And then claim she must be that Lip Stick-girl
 
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