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Who will be the first newcomers revealed for Smash 4? (Expect first trailer at E3!)

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The Real Gamer

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For a reference point (and a bit of nostalgia), I recommend that we all reflect back on the very first SSBB trailer: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gutOdjg2BUk

Basically there were 5 newcomers revealed in the Brawl debt trailer: Metaknight, Pit, Zero Suit Samus, Wario, and Snake. They were obviously included in the trailer because seeing newcomers in the Smash series was by far the biggest part of the hype that the trailer had going for it (it eventually lead to the massive amount of roster speculation on this very site). Looking back it was a very good choice of characters to choose for the reveal; there were a few familiar faces from big franchises (ZSS, Wario, and Metaknight), an iconic retro character (Pit), and the bombshell of a reveal that made everyone realize third parties were finally going to be a part of the Smash series (Snake).

Based on the insane amount of hype levels that were generated as a result of those character reveals it's pretty safe to assume that Nintendo will be doing the same for Smash 4 (revealing newcomers in the debt trailer). But the question is, who will those characters be? If you're unsure, then which newcomers would you like to see in the debt trailer?

In my opinion... Ridley, Isaac, Krystal, Little Mac, and Pac Man will be revealed. The first 3 are popular characters that are pretty recognizable (Krystal was thrown in there because there needs to be a female and I'm a big supporter of her). Little Mac will be the iconic retro(ish) character revealed, and since Namco is such a big part in this games development there's a good chance they'll want to squeeze a Namco character reveal in there, and I think Pac Man is the most likely rep.

What do you guys think? Lets see if anyone will be able to guess 100% correctly by the time the debt trailer rolls around. ;)

As a bonus (and yet another reference point), here's the Melee reveal trailer: https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=endscreen&v=sfQ75gr2znA&NR=1 Peach, Bowser, Sheik, and Ice Climbers were the revealed newcomers.
 
D

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I've been predicting (or at least semi-predicting) this for a long time:
- Ridley
- Palutena
- Little Mac
- Takamaru
- Mega Man (assuming E3 2013 reveal)

Now what I would love to see is this:
- King K. Rool
- Palutena
- Mewtwo
- Mach Rider
- Mega Man

@The Real Gamer: Isaac might work as E3 material due to how popular he is, but I find his reveal at E3 2013 to be a stretch. Seems to work more along the lines of DOJO!! reveal/unlockable character. For a female character, can't really see anyone else other than Palutena working. Krystal has decent chances, but again, works better as a DOJO!! reveal (can't really see her as an unlockable strangely). Pac-Man I highly doubt will get in Smash.
 

The Real Gamer

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As a bonus I also added the Melee reveal trailer at the end of the OP. Peach, Bowser, Sheik, and Ice Climbers were the revealed newcomers. I feel so old watching that. ;.;
 
D

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I'm afraid that anyone expecting Isaac is only setting themselves for dissapointment and have clearly ignored the main points I've repeatedly given on why he's not all that likely.

I will say it again for hopefully the last time:

-If Isaac's "prime", the first two Golden Sun games did not deem the series "worthy" of having a character like Animal Crossing and Pikmin in the eyes of Sakurai, then how would Dark Dawn, a game with considerably less fan praise, change his mind?
-Even if it magically did change his mind, it would be for Matthew, who is the main character of the game, not Isaac. Also, being a 2nd Party, he would need to discuss with Camelot for using the characters. Given that they are pushing Dark Dawn as the start of the "main series", while the first two games are just "prequels", they are very likely to want Matthew in Smash instead, especially if he's to be the main hero of future titles.
-Isaac and his series overall is not that big in Japan. While this isn't necessarily grounds for staying out of Smash, as characters with more requests in the US CAN get in (Pit and Sonic notably), Isaac is behind Ridley and Little Mac in this regard; both of which have much more going for them as well, especially with their US requests being noted by the Japanese fanbase.

Aside from that, on these prediction lists for first characters revealed, I'm seeing a scary reliance on patterns.
I'm seeing multiple ones that rely on the coincidences given in Melee's and Brawl's trailers
-Villain (Bowser and Meta Knight/Wario (both are anti-heroes that have done their share of dark deeds in the past))
-Retro (Ice Climbers and Pit)
-Female (Peach and Zero Suit Samus)
-Otherwise Popular (Sheik and Wario/Meta Knight (whoever isn't labeled in the Villain category))
-3rd Party (starting with Brawl) (Snake)

It's almost as alarming as those that predict there will be a StarFox Newcomer simply because there has been a new one each game, or 2 Pokemon Newcomers for the same reason.
Why do people think that the first revealed characters are because of some non-existant criteria?

That being said, I will make my prediction later.
 

The Real Gamer

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Iasaac has always been more of a hopeful of mine than anything.

In terms of the other 4 I didn't choose them based on criteria. Little Mac is a very popular retro that would generate a lot of hype, Ridley is pretty much the most wanted character,I chose Krystal because I'm almost certain that they will include a female (I'd put money on her or Palutena), and I chose Pac Man because Namco.
 

BKupa666

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I have no idea which five newcomers may be shown, but I've always said that Ridley will be shown first. He's the perfect badass flashy antagonist to impress audiences right out of the gate, much like Meta Knight and Bowser were before him.

:phone:
 

8-peacock-8

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I think that Ridley, Shulk, Palutena, Little Mac, King K. Rool, and a third party (Namco rep or Mega Man) will be shown.

:phone:
 

Arcadenik

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Toad, Little Mac, Takamaru, Palutena, and Mega Man.

:phone:
 

~ Valkyrie ~

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I'm afraid that anyone expecting Isaac is only setting themselves for dissapointment and have clearly ignored the main points I've repeatedly given on why he's not all that likely.

I will say it again for hopefully the last time:

-If Isaac's "prime", the first two Golden Sun games did not deem the series "worthy" of having a character like Animal Crossing and Pikmin in the eyes of Sakurai, then how would Dark Dawn, a game with considerably less fan praise, change his mind?

Dude, this can be applied to every other franchise out there who were reduced to smaller appearances. I mean, remember Saki? Despite him being so "highly requested" and Sakurai actually seemed fond of him, he was still put in the game as a mere Assist. And to rub on the wound he didn't get anything else than that, compare GS who got a song and an Assist.

Besides I dunno really but Sakurai's view on which series are worth of addition seems flawed IMO. GS should've been in and many other series. Pikmin's said to be a sleeper hit and rather underappreciated despite it being from Miyamoto and so on.


-Even if it magically did change his mind, it would be for Matthew, who is the main character of the game, not Isaac. Also, being a 2nd Party, he would need to discuss with Camelot for using the characters. Given that they are pushing Dark Dawn as the start of the "main series", while the first two games are just "prequels", they are very likely to want Matthew in Smash instead, especially if he's to be the main hero of future titles.

Or we could just get Adult Isaac incase they might think they wouldn't wish to leave the GBA installments shadowed. It was those games which garnered the popularity to the series at first place and are still looked on in a higher regard than the DD.

Besides, DD had been bit of in the mediocre side and longtime fans haven't been too keen on him, so I'm sure the would the reception wouldn't definitely be well-met incase that would be planned. Thus they'd better go with more favourable and popular choice which is Isaac. He at least made it in as an Assist Trophy, lending him being more well-known than his son outside of Golden Sun's fanbase.


-Isaac and his series overall is not that big in Japan. While this isn't necessarily grounds for staying out of Smash, as characters with more requests in the US CAN get in (Pit and Sonic notably), Isaac is behind Ridley and Little Mac in this regard; both of which have much more going for them as well, especially with their US requests being noted by the Japanese fanbase.

Does this seriously hinder his chances THAT much? Golden Sun has a big (yes, big) cult fanbase at US too, incase you didn't know. So practically he has the same thing applied to him like Pit and Sonic had incase you think popular requests on US can get in.

And if you meant from both sides instead (popular requests in Japan and US), then I hope you're aware that Mac's not that big in Japan. (Punch-Out! Wii bombed in Japan) Most of his support come from the US. So practically Isaac's on the same boat.

Anyway, here's mine:

- Toad
- Ridley (chasing him)
- Palutena (getting him off from Toad)
- Little Mac
- Isaac
- Pac-Man or Mega-Man (but I personally want Mega-Man, he'd create so much hype internet would explode three times.)
 

8-peacock-8

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I think they would show Mega Man before Pac-Man/Namco character. (hype train away!)

But the odd one out could happen again. (SUDDENLY, HEIHACHI MISHIMA!) lol

:phone:
 

fogbadge

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i would guess the balloon fighter im fairly certain he's one of the more popular choices for retro characters

i'd say shulk has got a good shot at getting in, but i wouldn't think they'd reveal him strait away

and i suppose there is a good chance if there's a namco character they'll be reavealed at the start

beyond that i really couldnt say
 

MasterMushroom

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Aside from that, on these prediction lists for first characters revealed, I'm seeing a scary reliance on patterns.
I'm seeing multiple ones that rely on the coincidences given in Melee's and Brawl's trailers
-Villain (Bowser and Meta Knight/Wario (both are anti-heroes that have done their share of dark deeds in the past))
-Retro (Ice Climbers and Pit)
-Female (Peach and Zero Suit Samus)
-Otherwise Popular (Sheik and Wario/Meta Knight (whoever isn't labeled in the Villain category))
-3rd Party (starting with Brawl) (Snake)

It's almost as alarming as those that predict there will be a StarFox Newcomer simply because there has been a new one each game, or 2 Pokemon Newcomers for the same reason.
Why do people think that the first revealed characters are because of some non-existant criteria?

That being said, I will make my prediction later.
I honestly have to agree with this notion, especially with the whole "assumption" indication people have been making on the whole "character expectation" for the trailers. Otherwise in regards with Isaac, I'm going to have to side with Horsetail on the matter. The only issue I see with Isaac is that he is competing with others for the "independent series" slots. Which I personally see us getting 3 or 4 AT MOST (2-3 at least). And take note there are a lot of noteworthy candidates for that category: Isaac, Stafy, Saki, Shulk, Advance Wars Rep, Custom Robo, etc etc. It'll be a close race for Isaac considering each one's chances more or less measure near his. On the flip side, this matter will be entirely up in the air; as Sakurai will be having the final say. Other than that, he has a pretty good chance when weighing the pros/cons in comparison with other characters.

If I was forced to "predict" this matter using the "formula" everyone else is using; it'll probably be something like this

Villan - 1) Ridley/King K. Rool
Retro - 2) Takamaru
Female- 3) Captain Syrup/Plateuna/Ashley/
Lip/
Strictly Popular- 4) Little Mac/Isaac/Geno/
3rd Party - 5) ???/TBA/Undetermined (No one could ever predict this)
 

Diddy Kong

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Sheik was never 'popular', Ganondorf was always the #1 most requested Zelda character, by far.

As for patterns, I see it as this:

Retro- Melee: Ice Climbers, Brawl: Pit.
VERY Popular requests (aka the: Why Wheren't They In The Last Game?- characters): Melee: Bowser and Peach. Brawl: Meta Knight and Wario
Unique / Unexpected: Melee: Sheik (and later the reveal of Zelda and them being a duo character) Brawl: Zero Suit Samus

Judging by this, I see Little Mac and Takamaru being as extremely likely to get revealed. At least of them I'm confident. Otherwise, expect the unexpected and the highly wanted. We could very well see Mewtwo duking it out against Maxwell from Scribblenauts. But personally, I expect we'll see about 3 newcomers at most, and a couple of veterans (since their absence worried a lot of people pre-Brawl especially in the case of Ness, Captain Falcon and to a lesser note Donkey Kong).
 
D

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Again Diddy, your hatred of Sheik has blinded you.
Sheik, as well as Zelda and Young Link, were all tied for 2nd most requested Zelda character.
If Sheik was as unpopular as you say she is, she wouldn't have been on the poll at all, or at the very least, be lower than Darunia in requests.

@Horse: Don't think I've forgotten you.
I've pretty much got an essay in the works for you....

Young Horsetail said:
Dude, this can be applied to every other franchise out there who were reduced to smaller appearances.
No, because within context, he's talking about series since 2001 (in this case, it would be from 2001-2006, when the roster was decided sans Sonic and cuts). This means that characters PRIOR to 2001 such as Saki and Little Mac, are unaffected by this statement and have their own demons to fight, so to speak.
http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=14363793&postcount=99629

I mean, remember Saki? Despite him being so "highly requested" and Sakurai actually seemed fond of him, he was still put in the game as a mere Assist. And to rub on the wound he didn't get anything else than that, compare GS who got a song and an Assist.
Do people really not remember Sakurai's issue with Japan exclusive characters?
And do people really not remember that Sin & Punishment was Japan exclusive until after the roster had been "finalized" in 2006?
And if you are insinuating that because Golden Sun got a song, it is more likely to get a character, you have already lost this argument. With that twisted logic, I can say Waluigi is the most likely Mario character for being an Assist and having a song. AND a color palette for another character.

Besides I dunno really but Sakurai's view on which series are worth of addition seems flawed IMO. GS should've been in and many other series. Pikmin's said to be a sleeper hit and rather underappreciated despite it being from Miyamoto and so on.
This means, what exactly? Whether or not his view is flawed, it is what it is and is not likely to change.

Or we could just get Adult Isaac incase they might think they wouldn't wish to leave the GBA installments shadowed. It was those games which garnered the popularity to the series at first place and are still looked on in a higher regard than the DD.
In a game where they are to get (sort of) free publicity to get newer fans interested in the series, do you honestly think they would choose a character who was only the main character in one title, or the one that would possibly be the main hero from this point on?
I know you're going to try to use Marth as a counter-example, but don't. Or this will go on far longer than it should, to which it's already doing so.

Besides, DD had been bit of in the mediocre side and longtime fans haven't been too keen on him, so I'm sure the would the reception wouldn't definitely be well-met incase that would be planned. Thus they'd better go with more favourable and popular choice which is Isaac. He at least made it in as an Assist Trophy, lending him being more well-known than his son outside of Golden Sun's fanbase.
Just because they'd "better", doesn't mean it will happen that way. If anything, him being in Smash would serve the series (and himself) well, being the fact that he is likely to keep on being the main hero, something Isaac hasn't accomplished. Newer fans will be introduced to the series and try it out.
From a business standpoint, Isaac would only cater to those who already are fans of the series. Matthew would serve as a gateway for newer fans, similar to Roy in Melee. Now, in a way to appease both would be to have Matthew have an alternate costume that matches young Isaac, seeing as Matthew is pretty much the same outside design and name.

Also, being the Assist in Brawl doesn't account for much in superiority. It's easy to be superior to someone who doesn't exist yet by having some sort of appearance.

Does this seriously hinder his chances THAT much? Golden Sun has a big (yes, big) cult fanbase at US too, incase you didn't know. So practically he has the same thing applied to him like Pit and Sonic had incase you think popular requests on US can get in.
Did you not read what I had said? He is behind the likes of Ridley and Little Mac in that regard. And unlike Isaac, they are noteworthy in Japan for their US support.
Also, I have doubts that this cult fanbase is as large as it says it is. It seems more like the Geno fanbase, which made itself out to be larger than it really is. Granted, Isaac is notably popular within the US. But considering that Ridley and Little Mac are
a. also heavily requested, if not MORE heavily requested
b. 1st Party (limited issue to deal with)
c. still have the same importance to their series as they did prior to Brawl
d. not from series that apply to Sakurai's statement
It stands to reason that they have a bigger shot.

And if you meant from both sides instead (popular requests in Japan and US), then I hope you're aware that Mac's not that big in Japan. (Punch-Out! Wii bombed in Japan) Most of his support come from the US. So practically Isaac's on the same boat.
See, this is why I feel you didn't read what I had said.
I've already stated that Ridley and Little Mac are more Western supported than Eastern.
However, Little Mac is not in the same boat as Isaac.
-Sakurai's statement applies to series post 2001. Punch-Out!! came long before 2001.
-Little Mac's support is noted within Japan. Isaac's is not.
-Little Mac is a 1st Party character, Isaac is a 2nd.
-Little Mac has the same importance to his series as he did before Brawl. Isaac doesn't.
 

~ Valkyrie ~

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Yuui: Well isn't this something, someone doing something personally for me. In any case, I'm interested.

EDIT:

No, because within context, he's talking about series since 2001 (in this case, it would be from 2001-2006, when the roster was decided sans Sonic and cuts). This means that characters PRIOR to 2001 such as Saki and Little Mac, are unaffected by this statement and have their own demons to fight, so to speak.
http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=14363793&postcount=99629
Where do you even come up with that kind of logic? There isn't any kind of indication supporting your argument about "franchises prior to Melee being unaffected." Why wasn't Little Mac then included? Was he maybe deemed "unworthy" as well? And even then, he might have only his sequel and huge popularity in US helping him to get him in SSB4.

Do people really not remember Sakurai's issue with Japan exclusive characters?
And do people really not remember that Sin & Punishment was Japan exclusive until after the roster had been "finalized" in 2006?
And if you are insinuating that because Golden Sun got a song, it is more likely to get a character, you have already lost this argument. With that twisted logic, I can say Waluigi is the most likely Mario character for being an Assist and having a song. AND a color palette for another character.
Except Waluigi already has his own issues (being a spin-off character). We're talking about a character with higher chances than him. Waluigi also has been a color palette already before, so?

On the other hand, I might give that it might haven't been the best argument, but ah well.

This means, what exactly? Whether or not his view is flawed, it is what it is and is not likely to change.
The fact about Ridley not still being added despite us getting Olimar despite his size deeming him unlikely, yet it's what holds Ridley back (or the fact that he'd be "slow".)

That for example, is what I find flawed. In my honest opinion it makes him rather unpredictable and seeing how Mac got shafted to an Assist-status...

Basically I'm saying that Sakurai's views might just those characters's chances as much as they do Isaac, or any other potential newcomers.

In a game where they are to get (sort of) free publicity to get newer fans interested in the series, do you honestly think they would choose a character who was only the main character in one title, or the one that would possibly be the main hero from this point on?
I know you're going to try to use Marth as a counter-example, but don't. Or this will go on far longer than it should, to which it's already doing so.
Are you ruling out a hole in your argument when you're telling me to not mention Marth?

Smash Bros though hasn't really been that big of a promoting machine since Melee for the series being featured as a playables. Brawl had mostly franchises already seen before expect Kid Icarus which got a huge popularity boost due being included. So are you serious thinking Smash Bros would be used as a promotion title? I don't think people tend to get really interested on some series after Smash Bros until it has to do with the one making them (Kid Icarus due getting Uprising). Besides some series featured in Smash Bros have been left on a long hiatus for a reason or another. See below.


Just because they'd "better", doesn't mean it will happen that way. If anything, him being in Smash would serve the series (and himself) well, being the fact that he is likely to keep on being the main hero, something Isaac hasn't accomplished. Newer fans will be introduced to the series and try it out.
From a business standpoint, Isaac would only cater to those who already are fans of the series. Matthew would serve as a gateway for newer fans, similar to Roy in Melee. Now, in a way to appease both would be to have Matthew have an alternate costume that matches young Isaac, seeing as Matthew is pretty much the same outside design and name.
Camelot has already lost the game though. Just making the fans wait for a mediocrely received sequel for 5 long years and actually saying they'll push it as a real direction to the series, hasn't been to favourable. It's pretty big blow there. Promoting Matthew and thus making the fans flock to the series might make em find the prequels and perhaps wonder how they had more to them than the real game. I also don't see Camelot doing GS4 for a long time even if Smash Bros might boost their recognition due Matthew, leaving fans of Smash waiting maybe as much as the longtime ones.

And seeing how GS hasn't yet gone to home consoles, itmight just fall into a hiatus again due low fan demand at the moment. Smash Bros won't bring em much fortune enough to help them start a sequel like that. Thus why they won't necessarily try to put promotion on Matthew incase they're aware how the game was met and go for a safer option, which is keeping the current fanbase interested and shift it to Isaac. They had blown up already and it shows. So like I said above, them trying to use Matthew to promote their series isn't gonna help them very much. F-Zero's already suffering from not having much series under it's belt since Brawl and same can be said about the series Assists were lifted from due them being now in such a long hiatus. (Custom Robo, Starfy, Advance Wars...)


Did you not read what I had said? He is behind the likes of Ridley and Little Mac in that regard. And unlike Isaac, they are noteworthy in Japan for their US support.
How does this contribute so hugely to them tho? Especially Mac. His series aren't that big in Japan and you say his US support being noted in Japan seems to help their popularity or likeliness so much. So far I can't even seen how this helps to contribute to the inclusion of the characters if they have a big fan support in US yet in Japan they seem to be only noted by their support outerseas.


Also, I have doubts that this cult fanbase is as large as it says it is. It seems more like the Geno fanbase, which made itself out to be larger than it really is.
I can't seriously believe this. You're mixing Golden Sun's fanbase with some other "fanbase" (the ones supporting Isaac for sake of supporting him due likeliness).

I meant the real fanbase which was doing forums, wikis, huge slew of fanart and fanfiction and so much more for a series having only two games in GBA. I ain't mentioning the series having cult fanbase for nothing. But going out there and saying his fanbase is same as Geno's sounds like an insult.

Granted, Isaac is notably popular within the US. But considering that Ridley and Little Mac are
a. also heavily requested, if not MORE heavily requested
b. 1st Party (limited issue to deal with)
c. still have the same importance to their series as they did prior to Brawl
d. not from series that apply to Sakurai's statement
It stands to reason that they have a bigger shot.
So basically what you're stating is that they have a bigger shot. Nothing else.

See, this is why I feel you didn't read what I had said.
I've already stated that Ridley and Little Mac are more Western supported than Eastern.
However, Little Mac is not in the same boat as Isaac.

-Sakurai's statement applies to series post 2001. Punch-Out!! came long before 2001.

Like I said above, that argument's bit in the biased side because nothing indicates that franchises that were created before Melee are one step farther being considered than the ones after Melee.

Punch-Out!! might have been deemed "unworthy" for Brawl. Or had it been needing a sequel so Mac would be actually be considered? He might have just missed in Brawl like Isaac did, and now has only his sequel and vast US support to drive him for Smash.


-Little Mac's support is noted within Japan. Isaac's is not.

And how does this contribute to his chances? Japanese aren't going to be there sending "outerseas support" just like that to Smash Bros, especially coming from a franchise which doesn't do much well in Japan.

-Little Mac is a 1st Party character, Isaac is a 2nd.

That I can give, but his series are underplayed in means of relevancy despite being 1st party.

-Little Mac has the same importance to his series as he did before Brawl. Isaac doesn't.

But like I said above, Camelot has goofed up trying to sell the game having a new direction/rebooting the series. Which is why Isaac's importance to the series hasn't completely diminished.
Anyway, it's bit odd to argue about this here because here we were meant to just list which characters we'd see being shown at the trailer.
 

Second Power

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Here's who I'm guessing.

Palutena (decently requested everywhere)
K. Rool (See above)
Ridley (...Like you're not wishing it)
Shulk (Most iffy. A non-gameplay trailer would be the best place to show off how he's different from other swordsmen, so if they did include him, this would be the best way to reveal him, in my opinion. But, it really comes down to whether or not he gets in.)
If not Shulk, any other just as likely newcomer can fill this role (Based on what Chrono said on the roster thread, I'm guessing Waddle Dee or Zoroark)

The trailer starts to fade with the four big characters (Mario, Link, Kirby, and Pikachu) fighting on the new 'battlefield'... Then, all of a sudden, the lights come back on as the screen is filled with a flash of flames. The camera pans to Roy, holding up the Sword of Seals, blazing in all its glory. Roy utters the words "Sorry I left" before jumping into the fray.
 

splat

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The trailer starts to fade with the four big characters (Mario, Link, Kirby, and Pikachu) fighting on the new 'battlefield'... Then, all of a sudden, the lights come back on as the screen is filled with a flash of flames. The camera pans to Roy, holding up the Sword of Seals, blazing in all its glory. Roy utters the words "Sorry I left" before jumping into the fray.
I'd enjoy this. I never really liked Roy in Melee, but I missed him in Brawl :/

As for who I'd think will be revealed in the first trailer:
  • King K. Rool or Ridley. I have the feeling that we'd only see one of these two villains in the reveal trailer. They're both heavily requested as far as I can tell (Ridley mainly in the West, though, I know) and announcing at least one of them will get the hype started. Leaving the other one out will create even more hype - in the form of people being hopeful that the other one will make it, too. Personally, I'm leaning towards Ridley here.
  • Little Mac. I feel that he's pretty much in the same boat these days as Pit. He's perhaps my top pick, so I might be a bit biased, but I think this is his time to shine.
  • Saki or Takamaru. I don't know why, but especially Saki just seems to fit in a trailer like this.
  • One of the returning characters. Mewtwo or Roy, for that matter. Create a buzz for the ones hopeful of having the two return.
Yes, four. That's it. I don't think there's that many obvious picks left, and that there will be a decline in the amount of characters we'll see revealed.

Now, I don't think we'll see a new Mario character in the first trailer. Any of them probably kills the hope for all the other options, which would create a negative vibe - you don't want that to happen.
With the amount of popular picks declining, there's also the amount of disputable characters increasing. I have some characters on my personal roster that have many fans, but also some opposition: Bowser Jr., Tingle and Mii, to name three. I also believe that any character with too much opposition (note that all the characters in previous trailers were widely well-received) should not be in a trailer.
 

3Bismyname

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this is kind of how i imagine it.
just like with Melee and Brawl, Mario, Kirby, Link, and Pikachu are the first characters revealed. they mix it up a little and a zoom in slash of Links sword uses a scene transition to switch to Marth and Takamaru. they clash swords and a fire ball comes down from the sky falling between them. pan up to show Ridley attacking from the sky. Ridley flies close to the ground breathing a fire trail with Samus running from it. she then jumps and turns in the air firing a rocket at him causing a big explosion. Captain Falcon comes jumping out of the fiery explosion running at Little Mac. Falcon jumps for a kick and Little Mac weaves out of the way in a boxers fashion and proceeds to throw punches at Falcon. Mac finally makes contact with an uppercut hurdling Falcon upwards in slow motion.

and thats about all i got for now. that shows off 10 characters with 3 newcomers. maybe throw Chrom in on the Takamaru and Marth fight but idk in my head it looks awesome. and Captain Falcon is really just a place holder
 

Pyra

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Am I the only one who's hoping for a Ganbare Goemon representative to be revealed?

I mean, a mostly Japanese series that is popularized in other countries through a Smash game isn't too farfetched now is it?... coughhinthintcough

As for predictions, I haven't a clue. They could throw everyone off and not follow a convoluted pattern at all!
 

3Bismyname

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Am I the only one who's hoping for a Ganbare Goemon representative to be revealed?

I mean, a mostly Japanese series that is popularized in other countries through a Smash game isn't too farfetched now is it?... coughhinthintcough

As for predictions, I haven't a clue. They could throw everyone off and not follow a convoluted pattern at all!
isnt Ganbare Goemon third party though.
 

Zuby

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Palutena
Little Mac
Mewtwo
High-profile 3rd party character - probably Megaman

I've got a feeling that Ridley and K.Rool, if included, will not be revealed until close to the release date to build up anticipation.
 
D

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Young Horsetail said:
Where do you even come up with that kind of logic? There isn't any kind of indication supporting your argument about "franchises prior to Melee being unaffected." Why wasn't Little Mac then included? Was he maybe deemed "unworthy" as well? And even then, he might have only his sequel and huge popularity in US helping him to get him in SSB4.
Think about what you're saying.
My initial point was that what Sakurai said about Pikmin and Animal Crossing in terms of newer series being the only ones deserving of a character negatively affects Golden Sun.
You try to counterpoint by saying it also affects Sin and Punishment as well as Punch-Out!!.
I point out that Sakurai specifically referred to series post 2001, which Sin and Punishment and Punch-Out!! are not, and thus, are not affected by that particular statement, but I did state that they have their own problems to deal with unrelated to it.
Your counter? "HOW DO YOU KNOW IT DOESN'T AFFECT THEM, HUH? MAYBE LITTLE MAC WASN'T WORTHY EITHER!!!" Which is, I'm sorry to say, idiotic.
One, the reason why the statement doesn't affect them? SIMPLE READING COMPREHENSION. Sakurai discussed that of series introduced since 2001, only Pikmin and Animal Crossing were deemed worthy of characters. This means, a 2001 series character like Isaac is affected by this particular statement, but a 1984 series character and a 2000 series character like Mac and Saki respectively, are not.

Also, the idea of someone being called a "legend" by Sakurai being "unworthy" is laughable.

Except Waluigi already has his own issues (being a spin-off character). We're talking about a character with higher chances than him. Waluigi also has been a color palette already before, so?

On the other hand, I might give that it might haven't been the best argument, but ah well.
This still isn't your best argument.
For one, being a spin-off character doesn't make lick of difference. :drmario:
Two, "a character with higher chances than him"? While I'm not going to advocate for Waluigi's chances at this point of time, Waluigi is not a character from a franchise deemed unworthy by Sakurai, and unlike Isaac, he has support WORLDWIDE. His US support may not be as strong as Isaac's, but he has support in Japan, which even though he's not the top Mario request there (no one really is), the fact he gets support at all there already puts him above Isaac. From a logical standpoint, Waluigi has more going for him than Isaac with the only point that can be used to bring him down in comparison is "he's a spin-off character", which is only an faulty excuse given to those against him as being a spin-off character doesn't affect chances.
Three, Luigi only had a Waluigi color in Brawl, so he HADN'T been a palette for someone before (not that this means anything, but I'm just correcting you).

The fact about Ridley not still being added despite us getting Olimar despite his size deeming him unlikely, yet it's what holds Ridley back (or the fact that he'd be "slow".)

That for example, is what I find flawed. In my honest opinion it makes him rather unpredictable and seeing how Mac got shafted to an Assist-status...

Basically I'm saying that Sakurai's views might just those characters's chances as much as they do Isaac, or any other potential newcomers.
Except that we don't know Ridley was held back due to size or speed. We don't necessarily know why he was held back, but it seems more like Sakurai didn't really put much thought into him until he was confronted about him, seeing as he quickly backtracked his "would be pretty impossible" statement with that he can work with effort, but he would have to be somewhat slow.
Sure, this could very well imply that Ridley would be problematic for Smash 4 as well. However, unlike the statement that affects Isaac, this one is left open for interpretation and could go either way. His demand could be reason enough to put in said effort to make him work, or he just would not be worth the hassle; we simply don't know.

As for Little Mac, we don't know why he was "shunned" either. Though I'm willing to bet it was more or less because he had very little to work with that would make him interesting, which is the reasoning why the Urban Champion was pushed to the side for the Ice Climbers in Melee. He doesn't have that much of an issue now because of the Wii game, especially when you factor his new styles of attacks from multiplayer and the over-the-top moves his opponents use that he could probably copy for Smash such as Macho Man's Triple Clothesline and Aran Ryan's glove on a rope. (tether recovery, perhaps?)

Are you ruling out a hole in your argument when you're telling me to not mention Marth?
No. It's that it's an argument that I don't want to see, as I would have to take extra time to show how Marth cannot be used as an example, and I really don't want to do it out of laziness.

Smash Bros though hasn't really been that big of a promoting machine since Melee for the series being featured as a playables. Brawl had mostly franchises already seen before expect Kid Icarus which got a huge popularity boost due being included. So are you serious thinking Smash Bros would be used as a promotion title? I don't think people tend to get really interested on some series after Smash Bros until it has to do with the one making them (Kid Icarus due getting Uprising). Besides some series featured in Smash Bros have been left on a long hiatus for a reason or another. See below.
When discussing with 2nd Party companies and characters, promotion and marketability can come up.
2nd Parties are notably more difficult to negotiate than with 1st Parties.

Camelot has already lost the game though. Just making the fans wait for a mediocrely received sequel for 5 long years and actually saying they'll push it as a real direction to the series, hasn't been to favourable. It's pretty big blow there. Promoting Matthew and thus making the fans flock to the series might make em find the prequels and perhaps wonder how they had more to them than the real game. I also don't see Camelot doing GS4 for a long time even if Smash Bros might boost their recognition due Matthew, leaving fans of Smash waiting maybe as much as the longtime ones.
If you're claiming that future games are going to be pecieved as mediocre, then this a "They Changed It Now It Sucks" mentality. Isaac didn't make the first two games. Especially not the 2nd, since Felix was the star there, not him.
What would need to be done is to work on what made Dark Dawn "mediocre" (and no, Matthew being the hero did not contribute to that, no matter what anyone says) and fix it. The most critiqued thing I see of the game is that it's too easy. Solution? Make the next game harder. Any other notable criticisms that are actually legitimate and not just whining over nothing?
I mean, the way you talk, it's like having a mindset that future Metroid titles are going to be like Other M and cause no one to care about the series.

And seeing how GS hasn't yet gone to home consoles, itmight just fall into a hiatus again due low fan demand at the moment. Smash Bros won't bring em much fortune enough to help them start a sequel like that. Thus why they won't necessarily try to put promotion on Matthew incase they're aware how the game was met and go for a safer option, which is keeping the current fanbase interested and shift it to Isaac. They had blown up already and it shows. So like I said above, them trying to use Matthew to promote their series isn't gonna help them very much. F-Zero's already suffering from not having much series under it's belt since Brawl and same can be said about the series Assists were lifted from due them being now in such a long hiatus. (Custom Robo, Starfy, Advance Wars...)
And I thought I was pessimistic. I honestly don't know how to respond to this.

How does this contribute so hugely to them tho? Especially Mac. His series aren't that big in Japan and you say his US support being noted in Japan seems to help their popularity or likeliness so much. So far I can't even seen how this helps to contribute to the inclusion of the characters if they have a big fan support in US yet in Japan they seem to be only noted by their support outerseas.
Ah, but you're missing the big picture. If a Smash fanbase is able to notice their popularity, who's to say that someone like Sakurai hasn't noticed it too? Afterall, he somehow knew of Pit's requests from US, and it's not like he made a poll for THAT. Granted, this means he could see Isaac is as well. However, the other problems involving Camelot and his documented feeling of any series since 2001 and prior to Brawl other than Animal Crossing, Pikmin, and on technicality, WarioWare come into play.

I can't seriously believe this. You're mixing Golden Sun's fanbase with some other "fanbase" (the ones supporting Isaac for sake of supporting him due likeliness).

I meant the real fanbase which was doing forums, wikis, huge slew of fanart and fanfiction and so much more for a series having only two games in GBA. I ain't mentioning the series having cult fanbase for nothing. But going out there and saying his fanbase is same as Geno's sounds like an insult.
I'm sorry that you feel insulted, but I am getting the impression that it's just another Geno situation, but at least for a character that isn't blatantly impossible, but rather extremely unlikely.
And the way you're giving your points is not helping my impression.
Don't get me wrong, I have nothing against Isaac to where I don't want him in. It's just that logically, he's not someone that should be expected. And when people try to give flawed or subjective excuses to why the logic is wrong, it irritates me.

So basically what you're stating is that they have a bigger shot. Nothing else.
In a series where character popularity is mostly measured through the home country (Japan) with very little exceptions (such as Pit), it just makes logical sense that of three that have only overseas support, the ones without glaring problems will be the ones to get in while the one that does is excluded.

But I'll tell you what. If Isaac does end up in against the stark lack of odds, I will eat my words.
No literally. I will print out everything I had said in this topic in regards to this issue, and eat the paper(s) that it is printed on. And post a video of it.
 

Opossum

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You should make the video paper view. Eh? Eh?


...










MewtwoPalutenaMegaManTakamaruKingKRool
 

ItsSilverLPs

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it would all depend if they made a trailer for Wii U and one for 3DS, or one for both, but here it goes:

Little Mac (retro)
Ridley (one of the most requested)
Mewtwo (coming back from Melee)
Palutena (popular, and is from Kid Icarus)
And, someone really surprising (can be an third party, someone beyond requested that's not very likely (i.e. Geno), or someone totally unexpected)

and for the old characters, for sure Mario, Link, Kirby, Pikachu, Meta Knight, Pit and Samus are going to appear. I believe the trailer will start just like Brawl's, but of course, they would first appear like they appear in Brawl.
 
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Anyways, to stay on-topic, my predictions, not in order:

1. Little Mac (I have this feeling that it's going to reference him being an Assist in the previous game, to have someone (probably Kirby) grab an AT, out coming old Brawl Little Mac. He looks at himself with disapproval, then does what Mario and co. do at the beginning of Brawl's trailer; turn into a newer model based off of Punch-Out!! Wii, then showing him as a Newcomer as he joins the fight.)
2. Namco Character (whoever it is, if there is one; it seems like something they'd get try to get out of the way for the public.)
3. Palutena (Pit is getting his rear handed to him, he sees Palutena come to the battlefield and thinks she's going to help him. She instead sends him flying comically with her rod, laughing at his naivety.)

Honorable Mention: Mewtwo (technically not a Newcomer, but shown for more of a sense to proclaim "he's back" to induce hype.)

I don't really have that high hopes for a bunch of new characters at once. With Brawl's trailer only revealing only 5 of 16 Newcomers, and there possibly being less than 16 of them in Smash 4, I feel most would be on the downlow.
 

Diddy Kong

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If Impa is gonna be in, I expect her to be revealed in the trailer as well. Similary to how Sheik was revealed in Melee, being her spiritual replacement and all.
 

MasterMushroom

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If Impa is gonna be in, I expect her to be revealed in the trailer as well. Similary to how Sheik was revealed in Melee, being her spiritual replacement and all.
Or you know

We could

I don't know

Just a guess

Have Sheik

and

Not have Impa

I don't know. It's just an educated guess. A Proposition. A Suggested. Etc :smirk:

1. Little Mac (I have this feeling that it's going to reference him being an Assist in the previous game, to have someone (probably Kirby) grab an AT, out coming old Brawl Little Mac. He looks at himself with disapproval, then does what Mario and co. do at the beginning of Brawl's trailer; turn into a newer model based off of Punch-Out!! Wii, then showing him as a Newcomer as he joins the fight.)
Since everyone's saying Little Mac, more or less; would you guys think its a good idea for him to have a "down-B" special change between offensive and defensive styles? Or would that be too complicated and unnecessary?
 

Diddy Kong

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I'm not sure I like that suggestion. I think not. :embarrass:
 

Opossum

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I think he meant the Impa thing.
 
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