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Seeds of Knowledge: Ivysaur Frame Data thread

JOE!

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~Seeds of Knowledge~

In this thread is a collection of pictures detailing every one of Ivysaur's hitboxes (the area where her moves actually land) and frame data (the amount of time they are out, and when the attacks appear, etc). To view her attacks, simply click open the box for each section.
How to read:
  • Active frames: The amount of time in frames the attack lingers. The frame on the left is also the frame on which the attack appears. (1 Frame = 1/60th of a second!)
  • Damage: The amount of damage (%) the attack deals. Highlighted damage corresponds to highlighted hitboxes of the same color.
  • End lag: The amount of time between the moment the last hitbox disappears, and when the move ends completely.
    IASA: "Interruptable-as-soon-as", meaning the move can be ended by another action from this frame onward.
  • Poison: The amount of poison damage the move deals (INCOMPLETE).
  • Heal: The amount of % healed from the move (INCOMPLETE).
To do: (feel free to help out!)
  • Throws: Throws are odd to look at in BrawlBox, and I may need a bit to do them (that and school johns).
  • Poison/Heal: I can't see these attributes in BrawlBox either, confirmation on the moves that do these effects would be appreciated.
  • Damage on Side B: Need some way to test how much Razor Leaf can do on average.
  • In-depth: Possibly add on more to each section, including things such as Knockback angle, and putting in a "danger zone" image of her coverage around herself. Possibly make this into a full-out guide as well!
~Specials~
[collapse=Specials]​
~Synthesis~

~Info~
Heal: 1% per "tick"

Synthesis takes 7 frames to activate, takes 2 frames to heal, and 10 frames to end.​

After the 2 frames, holding down the input will continue on until 36 frames pass, healing again and continuing on and on. This will heal you 1.5% per second.​

Tapping the input for 1 heal, stopping, then tapping again will net you about 1.8% per second, about 30% faster!​





~Solar Beam Strong hit~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Solar Beam weak hit~



~Razor leaf~




~Vine Whip Ground~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Vine Whip air~


~Seed bomb~

~Info~

Damage: 10%

Explosion size: about the same as Ivysaur herself
[/collapse]

~Standards~
[collapse=Standards]

~Jab hit 1~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~jab hit 2~




~Forward tilt normal~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~forward tilt strong hit~




~up tilt~



~Down tilt hit 1~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~down tilt hit 2~



~Dash attack~
[/collapse]
~Smashes~
[collapse=Smashes]

~Forward Smash~



~Up Smash~



~Down Smash~

[/collapse]
~Aerials~
[collapse=Aerials]

~Neutral Air Normal/Strong~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Neutral Air Landing~




~Forward air~




~Back air hit 1~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~back air hit 2~



~Up Air~




~Down air~
[/collapse]
~Grab~

[collapse=Grab]
~Standing Grab~



~Dash Grab~



~Pivot Grab~
[/collapse]
~Miscellaneous~
[collapse=Misc]

~Jump Squat~





~Light Landing~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Heavy Landing~



~Spot Dodge~







~Air Dodge~







~Forward Roll~



~Back Roll~




*BBox is a pain to align moves that move through the Z axis. Covers a bit less distance than FDodge tho*​


[/collapse]
~Feel free to add what you found out!~
 

Sudai

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I thought dash grab felt better but my melee mindset kept screaming that it was a trap. Thinking it was a trap was the real trap!

I find it crazy how much better pivot grab is than a standard grab though.
 

JOE!

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Yeah, gonna start dash grabbing and pivot grabbing as mixups.

Also, up smash is her fastest smash Lolwut

:phone:
 

Yeerk

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I have stupid questions. I've never looked at images like these before, and don't know what they mean. Mostly wondering about Vine Whip. Is the sweetspot denoted by brighter shades of green? Are the circle sizes the range of the attack? Thanks <_<
 

Sudai

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Yes and yes. Additionally, the thick line extending from the center of each hitbox is the direction the opponent will be sent with no DI.
 

TheReflexWonder

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What about landing lag on Solarbeam and Vine Whip? I know that Vine Whip no longer now has landing lag if you land on something before you go into SpecialFall.
 

bubbaking

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That explains why using her smashes is a bad idea lolol.
You should have seen how Iota used Ivy's fsmash for edgeguarding. The distance that Ivy launches herself over the ledge is really useful.

So going by this, whenever I use Ivy's side aerials, it's best to position Ivy so that she's diagonally above the opponent for the sweetspots, especially in the case of the fair. Wow, these pics help a LOT! Good stuff, JOE! :)

I always wondered what the major differences between her jab and dtilt were... So jab is overall faster and it sends the opponent slightly away, but dtilt has more range and reels the opponent in. I always suspected that her jab was a frame 3 jab, 'cause it seems really similar to Samus'..... Well with that, I'd like to announce that I was playing around with Ivy in Training Mode and she has a really sick crouch cancelled jab. It's decently ranged and really fast so it makes for some good shield pressure in CQC. Definitely consider mixing up the whole jab combo with just jab 1. When spaced, the crouch cancelled jabs can't really be punished, so they're good at creating pressure, forcing reactions, and stuffing OoS actions.
 

TheReflexWonder

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F-Smash doesn't hit opponents who sweetspot. You're much better off using shorthop F-Air or attempting to land the U-Air meteor, IMO.
 

TheReflexWonder

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Shuffled F-Air -> Smash/aerial (depending on how they DI) is reliable, simple, and effective.
 

bubbaking

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F-Smash doesn't hit opponents who sweetspot. You're much better off using shorthop F-Air or attempting to land the U-Air meteor, IMO.
I think he used it mostly for descending opponents, but yeah, you're right. Also, you'd uair meteor instead of dair? :confused:

Shuffled F-Air -> Smash/aerial (depending on how they DI) is reliable, simple, and effective.
I actually like dtilt > smash/aerial, personally. :)
 

JOE!

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Uair meteor lingers for 40ish frames, Dair meteor lasts for 1.

Also, I'll be working in all the suggestions when I have a moment, not only school johns but as of 12:45 this morning I'm an uncle :D
 

JOE!

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Grats on being an uncle.

Do you plan to expand this beyond frame data?
Thanks, and in the future I was thinking of turning this into a guide of sorts as more info gets thrown in, collecting it all in the OP. SO if you find any tricks with specific moves/whatever, I'll add them to their respective sections in the collapse tags.
 

Yeerk

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Uair meteor lingers for 40ish frames, Dair meteor lasts for 1.
Uair meteor is definitely easier to hit with, but feels very dangerous. A lot of times it sends you downward right alongside them, and if you hit them early in the move, you won't reach IASA before they're able to hit/gimp you right back. This brings up the only two things you can do to stop your momentum in most cases: double-jump or dair. DJ feels quicker to me, but if you're too close to them and get hit, you'll have spent it and it's hard to get back. I guess you have to know percentages to know what approach is best, but either way it's probably better to hit in the latter half of the 40 frames. Sound right?
 

Yeerk

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People fighting Ivysaur will know about it, I don't know when it would be a total surprise to good players, besides it being a quick move and the fact that they couldn't react offstage to it. I mix up my edge guarding with seed bombs over the side anyway, so it works for me occasionally as a mixup. I don't use it a lot since an early Uair hit is so dangerous if you start at stage level. I'm not too privvy on frame rate, so when I say "latter half of 40" I mean it's safer to start high. Who knows, I don't exactly play at the highest competitive level anyway xD Just throwing stuff out there that hasn't been said ;) Does Uair's meteor knockback decrease as you fall?
 

TheReflexWonder

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U-Air -> footstool on later hits, fools. I've done it a couple times already. You can even do it out of a F-Air hit, depending on how they DI.
 

JOE!

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The Uair pic is static, showing the hitbox doesn't change until it ends. If I show multiple frames then the hitbox changes. Check out the pic :)

Also random: the vfx of all the spores are bigger/linger longer than the actual hits. Would you think it'd be cool or jank to have a late-hit that only caused the poison effect but no KB?

:phone:
 

JOE!

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Ah, and probably not, but you could most likely Uair meteor from it.

And no thoughts on the bonus hit? (Just for fun, since I can't do actual work while... at work lol)

:phone:
 

Sudai

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That's more of a Gen Discussion topic. That's why I wasn't answering. Kind of a silly reason but meh.

As for the FSJ>UAir meteor, I was thinking about it some because I've been thinking about ways to set up FSJ with Ivy but any thing we have that leads in to FSJ would rely on bad DI.
 
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