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Banjodorf

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The Pre-Brawl days had alot of requests for Diddy, MK, Dedede and such, but I'm trying to recall the actual list of most-requested, to sort of compare it to today's most-requested list.

I'm not really able to find much, but does anyone else from the Bre-Prawl days remember the top, let's say 10, requested characters for Brawl?
 

Curious Villager

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I honestly don't know, I believe there's a thread with all the info you need for that kind of stuff.

Has there been a poll made for Smash 4 yet though? :/
 

PsychoIncarnate

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I can tell you the top 2 in the pre Brawl days, here at least, were Ridley and Geno. More or less tied

Edit: From what I can see in the Brawl character forums (By number of replies)

Geno
Ridley
Megaman
Pokemon Choice (Not specified)
Krystal
Ashley (Though most of it was probably trolling by RIDLEY)
Wolf
Waluigi (Also had a lot of trolling by RIDLEY)
Claus/ Masked Man
Bomberman
Isaac
Ness (Mostly because he was revealed as one of the last characters, and Lucas was freaking people out)
Toad
Dark Samus
Michiah
Tom Nook
Black Knight

Edit: Although most of the confirmed characters had their threads moved to the official forums, so I don't know how popular they were in comparison

I do remember Sonic high on the list
Also King Dedede was high, considering the time it was, before he was announced.
Those 2 were the only ones I remember being high because I supported those 2. I didn't support most of the rest (Although I did say in the Olimar thread I would like to see the character in the game, though I didn't support him because I hadn't played any Pikmin games)

R.O.B.'s thread was abysmally small. Only a couple people supported him and they gave up hope when ROB's were seen as normal enemies in SSE.

Pkmn Trainer had a hilarious thread because it was constantly flamed by some guy that was adamant that believing he'd be in the game was stupid and he'd eat his hat/ underwear/ some article of clothing if he ever got in. I wonder if he DID indeed eat it.
 

N3ON

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Number one was obviously Sonic.

Other than that, I don't have any actual results or sources, but post-trailer Dedede, Ridley, Geno, Diddy, an AC character, Krystal, Lucario, Isaac, Mega Man, Waluigi, and Olimar were all pretty requested (in the west at least). I'm probably forgetting some, but those are a good portion of the main ones.

EDIT: Yeah, and those on Psycho's list.
 

ChronoBound

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Here are the results to some old polls I did back in early 2007, I think:

I was looking through some old folders of mine, and I discovered that I had recorded the results for two pre-Brawl polls. Unfortunately, there is no date given on any of the polls, but it ranges from when Brawl was first announced to when the first Dojo newcomers were confirmed.


Poll #1: Nsider first half of 2007

Mario series:
- Geno: 19
- Bowser Jr.: 7
- Toad: 6
- Waluigi: 4
- Daisy: 4
- Mallow: 3
- Paper Mario: 2

Donkey Kong series:
- Diddy Kong: 23
- K. Rool: 8
- Dixie Kong: 3

The Legend of Zelda series:
- Midna: 13
- Vaati: 10
- Fierce Diety Link: 6
- Tingle: 6
- Zant: 4

Metroid series:
- Ridley: 32
- Dark Samus: 2

Kirby series:
- King Dedede: 16

Star Fox series:
- Wolf: 19
- Krystal: 16

Pokemon series:
- Lucario: 10
- Deoxys: 5
- Meowth: 4
- Plusle & Minun: 3
- Blaziken: 2

F-Zero:
- Samurai Goroh: 8

Mother/EarthBound series:
LOL

Fire Emblem series:
- Ike: 14
- Lyn: 14
- Sigurd: 5

Other series:
- Tom Nook: 12
- Isaac: 11
- Olimar: 10
- Mii: 5
- Ray: 4
- Starfy: 4
- Andy: 4

Retro:
- Little Mac: 8
- Balloon Fighter: 6
- Lip: 4
- Muddy Mole: 4
- Takamaru: 2
- Sukapon: 2

Third-Party:
- Sonic: 35
- Mega Man: 13
- Bomberman: 8
- Shadow: 7
- Sora: 6
- Simon Belmont: 5
- Rayman: 4
- Knuckles: 4
- Tails: 4
- Lloyd Irving: 3
- Pac-Man: 2

Top 10 for Nsider poll:
1. Sonic (35)
2. Ridley (32)
3. Diddy Kong (23)
4 Wolf, Geno (19)
5. King Dedede, Krystal (16)
6. Ike, Lyn (14)
7. Mega Man, Midna (13)
8. Tom Nook (12)
9. Isaac (11)
10. Olimar, Lucario, Vaati (10)


Poll #2: GameFAQs, first half of 2007

For some reason there are much less character results recorded for this poll. I don't know why. My theory is that its a separate page to record characters that got more than 1-3 votes (so as to record the higher ranking characters better since there were so many single vote characters in the GameFAQs poll). There is no character on the page that has below 15 votes, so I think this is most likely what this is.

Mario series:
- Geno: 27
- Bowser Jr.: 20

Donkey Kong series:
- Diddy Kong: 37
- K. Rool: 19

The Legend of Zelda series:
The page does not list any Zelda characters so I am assuming there were no Zelda characters that had received at least 15 votes.

Metroid series:
- Ridley: 36
- Dark Samus: 19

Kirby series:
- King Dedede: 32

Star Fox series:
- Krystal: 30
- Wolf: 29

Pokemonseries:
The page does not list any Pokemon characters so I am assuming there were no Pokemon characters that had received at least 15 votes.

F-Zero series:
No character received at least 15 votes.

Mother/EarthBound series:
No character received at least 15 votes.

Fire Emblem series:
- Ike: 16
- Lyn: 15

Other series:
- Isaac: 22
- Tom Nook: 18

Retro:
No character received at least 15 votes.

Third-Party:
- Sonic: 58
- Mega Man: 35
- Shadow: 15

Overall Top 10 for GameFAQs poll:
1. Sonic (58)
2. Diddy Kong (37)
3. Ridley (36)
4. Mega Man (35)
5. King Dedede (32)
6. Krystal (30)
7. Wolf (29)
8. Geno (27)
9. Isaac (22)
10. Bowser Jr. (20)

Pretty interesting.
 

Banjodorf

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Thanks folks! That's a really great poll you've got there, Chrono;

I might try something similar on another forum to see the results...I'm sure it'll be about the same as it is here, as those results, thinking about it, are pretty close to SWF's most common.

I'd forgotten Geno's tremendous fanbase (I don't know how since I was part of it)

Diddy, Bowser Jr., Ridley, Geno...among others.

Krystal's popularity was huge back then, although there was alot of negativity around it. Amazing how times change, eh?

Seeing characters like Little Mac or Takamaru so low on the list really seems funny nowadays...
 

ChronoBound

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If you have any questions about pre-Brawl (or even pre-Melee) character popularity, feel free to ask me.
 
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It's funny how Shadow was somewhat popular back then to me, given that Shadow is one of my pipe-dream characters.
 

Opossum

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Or that Muddy Mole was above Takamaru on one of Chrono's retro polls...that was a pleasant surprise, seeing that he had some support back then.
 

ChronoBound

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Or that Muddy Mole was above Takamaru on one of Chrono's retro polls...that was a pleasant surprise, seeing that he had some support back then.
You should not take those polls as the be-all end-all in regards to pre-Brawl popularity. They were simply a glimpse back in time during a certain period (early 2007) at two sites (NSider and GameFAQs).

For example, Takamaru did not do well in those polls, yet he had a very large support thread at this site during pre-Brawl. Sukapon had an active support topic as well.

Like I said, ask me any questions you might have about pre-Brawl and I will try my best to answer your questions.
 

Banjodorf

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In that case, I'm curious if I was right about Meta Knight's popularity prior to the Brawl announcement. It's not something I've ever been able to find concrete info on, and really just assumed.
 

FlareHabanero

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One thing for sure is that times have changed by a lot. Notice how a lot of the choices during the pre-Brawl are different from now.

Also Meta Knight at the time was fairly popular as a character due to the recent (at the time) appearances, but not as popular as Kind Dedede.
 

GetBentSaggy

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Another thing you need to consider is that people thought characters wouldn't have been taken out of Brawl. They didn't really think "(Character) needs to come back, I hope he won't get cut in Brawl! He was so good and fun in Melee!" like we're thinking now.
 

Banjodorf

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^^

You're right that there wasn't a big worry about X being taken out, but I definitely remember for a while the idea of Luigi being cut floated around for a while back in mid-late '07.

Jiggs, Mewtwo, Roy and Pichu being cut, Mewtwo being replaced with Lucario was a thing that came up from time to time, and...well...
 

PsychoIncarnate

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People thought that Lucas replaced Ness

"Until Now"
 

ChronoBound

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In that case, I'm curious if I was right about Meta Knight's popularity prior to the Brawl announcement. It's not something I've ever been able to find concrete info on, and really just assumed.
Meta Knight was definitely within the Top 5 most wanted newcomers prior to the Brawl unveil.

The interesting thing though there was actually some worries back then (according to something I wrote back in 2004) that Meta Knight would end up being broken.

Meta Knight:
Meta Knight has been somewhat of a side character for the Kirby series, being a knightly rival to Kirby and antagonistic in many of his appearances. His playable appearances in Nightmare in Dream Land and Kirby’s Air Ride, has made his popularity surpass that of King Dedede, making him the favorite for a new Kirby character in Smash Bros. However, there are some Smash Bros. fans that are concerned with putting Meta Knight in because he may become a “cheap” character. For example, Meta Knight as a character has fast speed, good jumping, and a sword. They think that Meta Knight must be properly balanced before being added as a playable character.
 

PsychoIncarnate

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What, his popularity surpassed King Dedede?

I find that odd
 

ChronoBound

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What, his popularity surpassed King Dedede?

I find that odd
Yeah it did, because he was "cooler", and because of the mode in Nightmare in Dream Land in which you got to play as Meta Knight. Really, back during pre-Brawl a lot of what determined character popularity was being "cool" or imagined "moveset potential" (or being female). That is why you had the fanbases Geno, Masked Man, and Ashley pop up, and why they all popped after Brawl was released.

King Dedede during pre-Melee was by far the preferred one for a Kirby newcomer though.
 
D

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I know you've probably been saying things like this to death now, but can you tell me how Goroh was like pre-Melee and pre-Brawl?
 

ChronoBound

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I know you've probably been saying things like this to death now, but can you tell me how Goroh was like pre-Melee and pre-Brawl?
During pre-Melee, a lot of people thought Goroh was going to get in due to being in the Melee trailer (along with Ridley and Wolf). However, when the character selection screen got out with only five hidden character boxes, expectations for characters within a large portion of the Smash Bros. fanbase got more pessimistic, so Goroh got squeezed out there. Among people that thought that was all a "mind game" and there were more character boxes, they felt Goroh (along with Ridley and Wolf) would be in the game due to the Melee trailer.

During pre-Brawl, there was not a lot of people that "personally" supported Goroh. The support thread for Goroh on this site was actually quite small and inactive. However, lots of people thought Goroh was likely, and he was included on almost every fan roster.
 
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Ah, so Goroh never really hit it off as it was believed. More or less expected as a sure thing, then when that didn't happen, he kind of "died".

As for Japan, have they always been Black Shadow > Goroh?
 

ChronoBound

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As for Japan, have they always been Black Shadow > Goroh?
I only started looking at Japanese opinions back in late 2007. I am pretty sure most of Black Shadow's Japanese popularity is derived from the F-Zero anime and the fact that Norio Wakamoto voices him.
 
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Alright, I also remember you saying that the two are near equal in Japan, just that Black Shadow has a bit of an edge (due to EMPEROR WAKAMOTO and WATASHI WA SHINEN). Is this correct, or is Goroh considerably lower?
 

ChronoBound

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Alright, I also remember you saying that the two are near equal in Japan, just that Black Shadow has a bit of an edge (due to EMPEROR WAKAMOTO and WATASHI WA SHINEN). Is this correct, or is Goroh considerably lower?
Yeah. I would say Black Shadow definitely has the edge though. A lot of the time Samurai Goroh comes up its usually in some fan roster someone posted, whereas Black Shadow will at least have someone separately asking for him.
 

N3ON

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Now that the thread has seemingly turned into asking Chrono questions, I have three! :awesome:

1. What was the opinion of Japanese-only characters pre-Melee (like during the Melee speculation period)?

2. What was the opinion of third-parties in Smash pre-Snake reveal? Did people ever seriously expect them? Was the majority for them or against them?

3. What was the opinion of Banjo-Kazooie back when they were eligible (pre-Melee and slightly post-Melee)? I know the answer (either way) is only going to make me sad... oh well. :(:laugh:

(I guess technically that's five :p)

Thanks Chrono ^_^
 
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Hmm....
I'm now starting to feel great pessimism for F-Zero, then....the only chance it seemingly has at this point is if Sakurai decides to add a character on a whim like he did with Falcon himself.
 

Banjodorf

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Don't sweat it, GY!

I think Sakurai might get, like some of us, that it's high-time F-Zero had another character. There's alot of potential to be had in Goroh, and I always thought Shadow was a better fit for Gannon's moveset than Gannon himself.


I feel like there's a couple surprises SWF isnt expecting for Smash 4, and a new F-Zero rep might be one of them.


We know how he likes reviving less used franchises and stuff!
 

N3ON

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Hmm....
I'm now starting to feel great pessimism for F-Zero, then....the only chance it seemingly has at this point is if Sakurai decides to add a character on a whim like he did with Falcon himself.
If Sakurai didn't already have a prototype fighter that shared (or was fairly similar to) Falcon's model and moveset, I doubt he would've been included, even if Falcon is Sakurai's favourite character. Since the same situation won't really be present this time, although Sakurai could definitely still add an F-Zero character on a whim, since the character won't already be partially complete, I'd personally say the chances aren't particularly favourable. :ohwell:

It's still a possibility though, of course.
 

ChronoBound

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Now that the thread has seemingly turned into asking Chrono questions, I have three!

1. What was the opinion of Japanese-only characters pre-Melee (like during the Melee speculation period)?
The only name I remember coming up sometimes is "Prince Mars", and maybe a little talk about the Fire Emblem series in general. I don't remember seeing the names Lip, Takamaru, or Sukapon.
2. What was the opinion of third-parties in Smash pre-Snake reveal? Did people ever seriously expect them? Was the majority for them or against them?
There were people suggesting third-party characters, but whenever anyone posted a roster with them, they would be flamed. The idea of Sonic being in Smash Bros. got sort of popularized by that EGM "Sonic & Tails are in Melee" stuff. Sonic was the character that came up the most. However, sometimes I would see people throw Mega Man and Bomberman in their rosters, half the time, it was ignorance that they were even third-party characters to begin.

In general though, people were not expecting third-party characters. People thought Smash Bros. was a Nintendo All-Stars fighter, and wanted to keep it exclusively Nintendo (especially with so many major Nintendo characters that still needed to be added).

3. What was the opinion of Banjo-Kazooie back when he was eligible (pre-Melee and slightly post-Melee)? I know the answer (either way) is only going to make me sad... oh well. :(:laugh:
BK was a really popular choice. However, there was skepticism as to whether he would get in due to the issues pertaining to Rare (this haunted Diddy Kong too). However, lots of people wanted him, and I would say for sure he was within the Top 10 most wanted newcomers for Melee.

Thanks Chrono ^_^
No problem. :awesome:
 

Swamp Sensei

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Is it Chrono question time? Sweet! :D

1. I know the Japanese know that the west loves Ridley and Little Mac but do they think that this warrants their inclusion?

2. Which form of Megaman is requested the most?

3. Do the Japanese want any character's moveset changed?

And I really am sorry about my mistake in the roster discussion thread. I hope to start over.
 

PsychoIncarnate

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The way I see it, if you say Mega Man, you are referring to Mega Man AKA Rock

Unless you say X, or Megaman.exe, you aren't referring to them
 

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Now that the thread has seemingly turned into asking Chrono questions
We all knew it was only a matter of time before he started up another Question thread like on Gamefaqs, either that or he does his own Choices thread.
Would be a lot of fun to see someone fight Toise for dominance.

I think Sakurai might get, like some of us, that it's high-time F-Zero had another character. There's alot of potential to be had in Goroh, and I always thought Shadow was a better fit for Gannon's moveset than Gannon himself.
ToiseofChoice said:
Now, the funny thing about Black Shadowdorf is that it'd be absolutely in character for him to fight exactly like Smash's Ganondorf. And that's including his Final Smash: just have Black Bull drop in from the sky, hop in, and blast off to the side.

Anyway, while I'm not a fan of his shallow support group nor having him in place of Goroh, I'd be pretty excited to see the dude appear regardless. Actually, you know what? Give Black Shadow the sword and magic. Or make them both based off of Falcon, that'd be funny too.
Sorry, but I always chuckle when I read this.

I feel like there's a couple surprises SWF isnt expecting for Smash 4, and a new F-Zero rep might be one of them.


We know how he likes reviving less used franchises and stuff!
Well technically there's a couple people that are expecting an F-Zero rep, mostly out of sheer hope and roster balance. We just gotta hope that Sakurai comes through for us instead of adding "Minor Mario Character 1."
 

ChronoBound

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Is it Chrono question time? Sweet! :D

1. I know the Japanese know that the west loves Ridley and Little Mac but do they think that this warrants their inclusion?

2. Which form of Megaman is requested the most?

3. Do the Japanese want any character's moveset changed?

And I really am sorry about my mistake in the roster discussion thread. I hope to start over.
1. I think they see no problem with it. I think they have no problem with one or two bones being thrown to the Western fanbase. I am not sure whether they think that warrants their inclusion though. Its kind like where we say here, "they are popular in Japan, so they will probably get in." Fun fact, there was a Ridley size debate I saw one time, and someone posted a picture of Melee intro Ridley as a retort. :awesome:

2. It almost always "Rockman". So most likely classic.

3. Sometimes I see people talking about changing Ganondorf. I also saw some discussion about possibly changing Pit up in light of Uprising.
 

Swamp Sensei

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1. I think they see no problem with it. I think they have no problem with one or two bones being thrown to the Western fanbase. I am not sure whether they think that warrants their inclusion though. Its kind like where we say here, "they are popular in Japan, so they will probably get in." Fun fact, there was a Ridley size debate I saw one time, and someone posted a picture of Melee intro Ridley as a retort. :awesome:

2. It almost always "Rockman". So most likely classic.

3. Sometimes I see people talking about changing Ganondorf. I also saw some discussion about possibly changing Pit up in light of Uprising.
Thanks Chrono.

And lol at the size debate! XD
 

Diddy Kong

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Biggest support threads I knew of where:

Diddy Kong :diddy:
Ridley
King DeDeDe :dedede:
Lucario :lucario:
Geno
Sonic! :sonic:
Wind Waker Link :toonlink:
Krystal
Wolf :wolf:
Ike :ike:
Lyn (up untill Assist Thropy reveal, easily rivalled Ike, less aggresive than Krystal vs Wolf though)
Olimar :olimar:
Isaac
Dixie Kong
King K.Rool
Midna and Wolf Link
Samurai Goroh (up untill Assist Thropy reveal)
Diddy & Dixie tagteam (thread by me)
Dark Samus
Waluigi
Tingle
Pokemon Trainer :pt: (seriously even had threads about :squirtle: and :charizard: . **** you not)
Lucas :lucas:

Many of the fan favorites made an appearance. Also most of the most popular choices where also added.

And I ****ted in my pants when Pokemon Trainer was actually revealed, but was cool with it cause he didn't fight himself at all. Which was why I was against the idea. Same with R.O.B :rob: , who although had quit support, the suggestion still came up before he got confirmed. As I was against his support, I again ****ted my pants. Still, was happy with both characters getting in later. They're unique aditions.

Most who didn't make it then, now also have very active support. Mostly seen in King K.Rool and Ridley fans. There's also others as Midna, Krystal and Dark Samus who almost have no support anymore. But still some seem to remember them.

There aren't as many fad characters around this time. And most people even agree nowadays on what should be expected newcomers and not. Still, none of this is certain yet.

Can't wait to see what choices they make this time. Was actually estastic when Diddy finally made it in in Brawl, so in that case, I'm already satisfied with whatever they bring, as long as he's back. :diddy: Looking most forward to what changes they bring in the excisting cast. And if they bring back Mewtwo and Roy. :mewtwomelee: :roymelee:

Characters I supported back then where:
Diddy, Ike, Lucas, Toon Link, Ridley, "Krystal" (didn't mind Wolf however), King K.Rool, Dixie, 'Midna and Wolf Link' (not quite but thought the idea was unique and cool, didn't expect them), Takamaru (remember being introduced to his series by someones analysis and wanted him in), and well... Some others. Hector from Fire Emblem was also a choice.

I believe many popular ideas from back then still excist. Still, there's also a lot of new faces who I see have also great chances to be in. Dunno what we'll get, but most likely it seems very popular choices often get in. Aslong as the character shows continuous support.

And even as proved in both in Melee and Brawl, even the smallest fanbases actually get listened to. As long as the character proves to be unique.

I think Toad is also far more popular than before actually. Nobody kinda expected him in Brawl. Or at least, nobody took it seriously, but now he's much more supported than ever.
 

FlareHabanero

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I also saw some discussion about possibly changing Pit up in light of Uprising.
I swear to god that is absolutely not needed. His moveset is absolutely fine right now, and to taint it with an unnecessary change is sickening. The only thing Pit really needs is slightly better range with his melee attacks, and that's it. No pulling Flintlock Staff or Predator Cannons out of his ***.
 
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Seeing something about Shadow on the front has gotten me curious. Exactly how much support did Shadow get pre-Brawl from both here and Japan up until his AT reveal?
 

Diddy Kong

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Shadow got more support after Goroh was revealed as Assist Trophy.

Oh and I remember people went crazy for an Animal Crossing character. The debates of Tom Nook vs Villager wouldn't stop, especially after Smash Ville got confirmed.

:phone:
 

ChronoBound

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Oh and I remember people went crazy for an Animal Crossing character. The debates of Tom Nook vs Villager wouldn't stop, especially after Smash Ville got confirmed.

:phone:
Yep. I am pretty sure when Smashville showed up, TTom Nook was in one of the screenshots, and the Nook fans were swearing up and down that it did not de-confirm him.

Many people were expecting an Animal Crossing character. Tom Nook had the largest fanbase. The Animal Crosser was the second-most popular choice. The third-most popular was K.K. Slider.
 

PsychoIncarnate

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Although Sakurai did say characters like the villager can't get in.

I think that leaves Nook without competition
 
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