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From Brawl Two Phantoms Were Born - Big Boss/Naked Snake for Smash 4!

Thread starter HylianHeroBigBoss
Start date Jan 31, 2013

Status: Not open for further replies.

HylianHeroBigBoss

Smash Lord

#1

Big Boss/Naked Snake

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At ease soldiers, and welcome to the big boss/naked snake for SSB4 Thread. First and foremost let me say that Im not campainging for both him and the current snake (solid snake) to be in the game, but what i want is for this version of snake to take over for him.

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Now that snake is part of the smash bros family he will need to bring some new assets to the table, and i think by bringing in the original snake "big boss" instead, it would give him enough new games to draw upon and also some nice new moves and visual updates. He is a very prolific figure in the series and has had a number of titles under his belt including: Metal Gear Solid 3, Metal Gear Solid Portable Ops, Metal Gear Solid Peacewalker, Metal Gear Solid: Snake Eater 3D, and coming soon Metal Gear Solid Ground Zeroes.

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A bit of info on the character himself (spoilers)

Big Boss was the codename of the legendary soldier who founded the U.S. Army Special Forces Unit, FOXHOUND. He was also the founder and commander of Militaires Sans Frontières, the "soldiers without borders," which led to the creation of Outer Heaven in South Africa. Big Boss later helped the small nation of Zanzibar Land achieve independence in Central Asia, becoming its head of state. Big Boss was considered by many to be "The Greatest Warrior of the 20th Century" and a brilliant military leader and was hailed as a war hero by admirers and feared as a tyrant by his enemies. As a result of the Les Enfants Terribles project, he was the genetic father of Solid Snake (his subordinate and later nemesis), Liquid Snake and Solidus Snake. Prior to earning the codename of Big Boss, he served as a field operative for the CIA black ops unit FOX (Force Operation X) which was founded by Zero and the apprentice of The Boss under the codename of Naked Snake during the Cold War.

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Moveset and other changes (work in progress)

While for the most part his play style will remain true to snake, but items and certain moves could get an upgrade, or in this case a retro grade to fit the weapons of his era. No bullet based weapons would be usable of course, but theres still plenty of other explosives and other gadgets that could make for suitable changes.

^B alteration - Kidnapper drone

First up is his ^B special, which for the last game was the cypher from MGS2, now that he would no longer be that snake it would need to be altered to something from this snakes games. I propose that its changed to the AI drone from peacewalker, these known as "kidnappers", and basically what they do in that game is abduct enemies. Just design wise its very similar to the cypher and would be an easy transition between the two. The fulton recovery system could be used too, but since it only ascends vertically i dont think it would work as well.

>B Electromagnetic Wave Gun

This might be a weird addition but i think it could be pretty cool. Heres exactly what it does as described in game: The Electromagnetic Wave Gun, known as the EM Wave Gun or EMW Gun for short, is a revolutionary weapon that utilizes electromagnetic waves to cause an explosion by crossing. It could be a bit overpowered, but i think if they handled it well it could be pretty cool.

Heres it in action with a little bit of ghostbusters fanfare thrown in

Stun Rod (A move/smash attacks)

This can be used in conjunction with either a few A moves or direction smash attacks. It could function like samus' stun gun blasts only at close range.

Taunt - Tank Box

So for this id like to see the tank box instead of the normal cardboard box. With this he could walk around a bit with the box over him. It can still be knocked around or off like his previous taunt, but now it could have the offensive capabilities where the first didnt. It could now fire one small blast while inside the box. It could only shoot once (or perhaps everytime its put on, that could change depending on balance and what not),

Thats all i have for that right now for moveset alterations, but updates will come and we can discuss what actual new weapons could work for his moveset too.

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Designs

Now as ive said previously id like to see this version of snake take on his peacewalker design, it retains all the elements that make him snake and also brings some new nice touches. He could also draw upon metal gear solid 3 and ground zeroes as well, but for now im just going to say it would be best with peacealker as the middle ground.

He could either use one of these

Sneaking Suit

Olive Drab

Codec Calls

Coming soon

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So yea discuss and let me know what you guys think about this character and how you feel about him possibly taking the reigns for snake

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Support tages for Big Boss

By Frostwraith:

By FalKoopa:

TheCreator

Smash Lord

#2

Such a strange idea.

L

Link585

Smash Rookie

#3

It would be awesome if Big Boss replaced snake
I hope he does

Diddy Kong

Smash Obsessed

#4

Wait, so this guy is the biological father of Solid Snake, but only by DNA?

Say, he's Mew, and 'Snake' in Smash was Mewtwo?

If he's more relevant, sure. Why not? But I would think he would still be named Snake. Not Big Boss...

HylianHeroBigBoss

Smash Lord

#5

Diddy Kong said:
Wait, so this guy is the biological father of Solid Snake, but only by DNA?

Say, he's Mew, and 'Snake' in Smash was Mewtwo?

If he's more relevant, sure. Why not? But I would think he would still be named Snake. Not Big Boss...

Yea he would definitely keep the snake moniker, since originally that was his code name. And he is essentially the same as snake in a number of ways, but the other snakes are clones of him so he is the original legendary soldier. It would offer new updates to the character while remaining the snake smash fans have grown fond of. Hes referred to as big boss, but in his games snake as well, and i figured if i named this thread snake for smash bros it might have been mistaken and relegated to the veteran board when they are different beings in a similar way like the links are.

colder_than_ice

Smash Lord

#6

I'm afraid he may be too similar to Snake. It wouldn't make much sense for the series to dump snake, only to replace him with a character that is almost the same while being much less iconic.

Diddy Kong

Smash Obsessed

#7

Well, if they're gonna revamp Snake a lot I see this as a good 'excuse'. Am very curious though, is Big Boss the enemy of Solid Snake? Is he more of a villain than a good guy?

**** I need to play these series...

PsychoIncarnate

The Eternal Will of the Swarm

#8

colder_than_ice said:
I'm afraid he may be too similar to Snake. It wouldn't make much sense for the series to dump snake, only to replace him with a character that is almost the same while being much less iconic.

Snake would be too similar to him

Robert of Normandy

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

#9

Diddy Kong said:
Well, if they're gonna revamp Snake a lot I see this as a good 'excuse'. Am very curious though, is Big Boss the enemy of Solid Snake? Is he more of a villain than a good guy?

He's both a good guy and bad guy. He's the villain of the MSX Metal Gears, but the in the prequel games, he's the protagonist. TvTropes says he slides between various shades of Anti-hero and a Type III Anti-Villain.

HylianHeroBigBoss

Smash Lord

#10

Diddy Kong said:
Well, if they're gonna revamp Snake a lot I see this as a good 'excuse'. Am very curious though, is Big Boss the enemy of Solid Snake? Is he more of a villain than a good guy?

**** I need to play these series...

Essentially he starts out as a good guy, in the same vain as his clone son. But overtime his views change and become misguided. It would be best to check out the games, because theres a myriad of details to go into as far as his character and story goes. But yea i think it would at least give the character of "snake" some new stuff to work with, and with all the new characters he could have codec convo's with it only furthers what he would bring along. I doubt very much that they are gonna go with MGS2 snake again, and the only other alternative for him is old snake which i dont think is the right direction to go. And with big boss recently getting a 3ds game release last year his story is available to nintendo fans as well.

Diddy Kong

Smash Obsessed

#11

Well, then I'm all for it! He seems to be even darker than regular Snake. Which is a nice contrast in the roster.

Robert of Normandy

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

#12

Diddy Kong said:
Well, then I'm all for it! He seems to be even darker than regular Snake. Which is a nice contrast in the roster.

Plus, he has an eyepatch, and those are always awesome.

I'd totally be cool with him replacing Snake. Not that I think it has to happen, just that I think it's entirely possible and not completely dumb.

HylianHeroBigBoss

Smash Lord

#13

Glad to hear you guys are open to the possibility, many other boards ive gone to either just wont hear of it or dont think solid snake should get left behind, but with this he wouldnt be all that different, and it can be said that the brawl snake took a lot of details from this snake to begin with including his beard, CQC, and a few other things.

8-peacock-8

Smash Hero

#14

Can Old Naked Snake be a costume?

Diddy Kong

Smash Obsessed

#15

I got a similar issue with Impa / Sheik, so I understand the situation best I'd say. But it really helps that you explained everything well. And this seems most logical. Plus, it would be totally awesome if Nintendo games would star 'Big Boss' and Sony games would have regular Snake.

Tweezer Salad

Smash Apprentice

#16

I could see him as an alt costume, same goes for grandpa snake.
(seriously, they need to put alt costumes in this series already)

but yeah, big boss looks more awesome than snake in my opinion.

D

Deleted member

Guest

#17

Solid is the main Snake in the series regardless if Naked is the one he was cloned from.
That being said, Brawl managed to make Snake into a hybrid of Solid and Naked while clearly meant to be Solid, so it wouldn't be out of place to add some more references to Naked without fully "replacing" Solid with Naked.

Robert of Normandy

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

#18

GoldenYuiitusin said:
Solid is the main Snake in the series regardless if Naked is the one he was cloned from.

Can you prove that? Honestly, I think that as time has gone on, it's becoming less clear that Snake is really the main Snake

D

Deleted member

Guest

#19

Solid is the main protagonist of the original Metal Gear and its sequel, while Naked was the main antagonist.

Solid was the main protagonist of Metal Gear Solid, while Naked was in coma.
Solid was the secondary protagonist of Metal Gear Solid 2 (though Raiden was the star because Kojima wanted to develop Snake as a character by viewing him through the eyes of another character. Funnily enough, Solid even remarks that he's the hero of the game and the main character during a Codec). Naked was still in a coma.
Solid was the main protagonist of Metal Gear Solid 4 as Old Snake. Naked woke from his coma and his main role in the game from my understanding (as in, correct me if I am wrong) is to make ammends with Solid before they both die (I'm saying this because while Solid didn't die at the end of the game, it is implied he doesn't have long to live given his unstable genetics causing him to age much faster than normal.)

While Naked has a few prequel titles under his belt (with varying degree on which is canon or spin-off), the story has always been about Solid. This is made evident with the Time Paradoxes in Metal Gear Solid 3, in that doing anything that would make a drastic change to what Solid will experience later in the timeline causes a Game Over.

There is an upcoming Naked game though in Ground Zeroes, but it's hinted that the game will start to wrap up the story in-between Naked's time in the limelight and Solid's, as the planned direct sequel to it, Metal Gear Solid 5, is hinted to have Solid after what Kojima said about "not being done with Solid Snake".

Also, while little note, the Metal Gear wiki DOES refer to Solid as the main character of the series. I believe Kojima has said something similar as well, but I would need to look for quotes.

FalKoopa

Rainbow Waifu

BRoomer

#20

He should be an alternate costume to Solid Snake. It seems very unlikely for him to replace Solid Snake, though.

He looks far cooler, i'll give him that.

Shotguner159

Smash Apprentice

#21

Big Boss has actually been in more games than Snake, Snake has been in 5 games (Metal Gear, Metal Gear 2, Metal Gear Solid, Metal Gear Solid 2, Metal Gear Solid 4), whereas Big Boss has been in 6, and will soon appear in 7 (Metal Gear, Metal Gear 2, Metal Gear Solid 3, Metal Gear Solid 4, Metal Gear Solid: Portable Ops, Metal Gear Solid: Peace Walker and Metal Gear Solid: Ground Zeroes). I'd definitely support Big Boss over Snake.

HylianHeroBigBoss

Smash Lord

#22

GoldenYuiitusin said:
Solid is the main protagonist of the original Metal Gear and its sequel, while Naked was the main antagonist.

Solid was the main protagonist of Metal Gear Solid, while Naked was in coma.
Solid was the secondary protagonist of Metal Gear Solid 2 (though Raiden was the star because Kojima wanted to develop Snake as a character by viewing him through the eyes of another character. Funnily enough, Solid even remarks that he's the hero of the game and the main character during a Codec). Naked was still in a coma.
Solid was the main protagonist of Metal Gear Solid 4 as Old Snake. Naked woke from his coma and his main role in the game from my understanding (as in, correct me if I am wrong) is to make ammends with Solid before they both die (I'm saying this because while Solid didn't die at the end of the game, it is implied he doesn't have long to live given his unstable genetics causing him to age much faster than normal.)

While Naked has a few prequel titles under his belt (with varying degree on which is canon or spin-off), the story has always been about Solid. This is made evident with the Time Paradoxes in Metal Gear Solid 3, in that doing anything that would make a drastic change to what Solid will experience later in the timeline causes a Game Over.

There is an upcoming Naked game though in Ground Zeroes, but it's hinted that the game will start to wrap up the story in-between Naked's time in the limelight and Solid's, as the planned direct sequel to it, Metal Gear Solid 5, is hinted to have Solid after what Kojima said about "not being done with Solid Snake".

Also, while little note, the Metal Gear wiki DOES refer to Solid as the main character of the series. I believe Kojima has said something similar as well, but I would need to look for quotes.

Even so you cant deny naked snakes presence in the story, everything thats happened is due to his actions or a direct cause of it. He was the main lead in nearly all the prequel games, you cant say solid snake is the main character of peacewalker, or MGS3 because hes not. And for all intents purposes solid snakes story is over, sure he could possibly show up in a prequel, but thats all speculation on something that might not even happen. As it stands right now naked snake is the current and most prominent version of snake at the moment, and hes the next logical step for the snake in this game since currently solid has hit a wall on what they could do for him besides old snake and taking assets from mgs4.

D

Deleted member

Guest

#23

@shotgunner: He did not appear in 1 or 2. As I said, he was in a coma and/or presumed dead.

@HylianHeroBigBoss: You have to remember that Snake in Smash is dependant on Kojima. Kojima himself is why Solid is in the game to begin with. To think that just because Naked happens to be more "relevant", he will "replace" Solid is illogical. Especially when you factor in the fact that the Snake in Smash, despite being Solid, takes from both Solid AND Naked. At the very most, Smash Snake will take a bit more from Naked in design and possibly moves to the point that he will simply be called "Snake" without any mention of him being either Solid or Naked.

Shotguner159

Smash Apprentice

#24

GoldenYuiitusin said:
@shotgunner: He did not appear in 1 or 2. As I said, he was in a coma and/or presumed dead.

Not Metal Gear Solid, Metal Gear. As in, the ones made for the MSX2. If we're discounting them for some reason, Snake has 3 games, and Big Boss has 5.

Robert of Normandy

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

#25

Shotguner159 said:
Not Metal Gear Solid, Metal Gear. As in, the ones made for the MSX2. If we're discounting them for some reason, Snake has 3 games, and Big Boss has 5.

He's discounting them because BB wasn't the protagonist in those games.

Solid Snake has 4 games(MG1&2, MGS1&4) where he is the protagonist. He is a supporting character in MGS2.

Naked Snake has 3 games(MGS3, the 2 PSP games) where he is the main character. He was also the antagonist of MG1&2, and will be the protagonist of MGS Ground Zeroes.

Shotguner159

Smash Apprentice

#26

shinpichu said:
He's discounting them because BB wasn't the protagonist in those games.

Why should being the protagonist matter when talking about the amount of appearances a character has made in a series?

Scoliosis Jones

Kept you waiting, huh?

Writing Team

#27

I've played MGS1-4, and i'll be completely honest with you. Changing Solid Snake to Big Boss in Super Smash Bros would be pretty ****ing stupid. They sound exactly the same, and there aren't any real physical differences because Solid is merely a clone. If they wanted Big Boss in the game, all they would have to do is give Snake a costume with an eye patch.

As Golden said, Snake in Brawl was a combination of the two. Also mind you, the most recent or "relevant" game to MGS was MGS4, because it was released soon after Brawl (at the time anyway). Solid Snake is really the main character. In the main story line (so MGS 1-4) Big Boss is playable once, and appears in MGS4.

Then you have Portable Ops, Peace Walker, and Ground Zeroes. The last two there I would consider good games to use as an argument. From what i've been told Portable Ops sucked.

I really don't get why we couldn't just have an alt costume with an eye patch for Snake. Whats the difference if Kojima had Snake represent both Snakes anyway? Switching them would be a waste of time, and really wouldn't matter imo.

HylianHeroBigBoss

Smash Lord

#28

Scoliosis Jones said:
I've played MGS1-4, and i'll be completely honest with you. Changing Solid Snake to Big Boss in Super Smash Bros would be pretty ****ing stupid. They sound exactly the same, and there aren't any real physical differences because Solid is merely a clone. If they wanted Big Boss in the game, all they would have to do is give Snake a costume with an eye patch.

I really don't get why we couldn't just have an alt costume with an eye patch for Snake. Whats the difference if Kojima had Snake represent both Snakes anyway? Switching them would be a waste of time, and really wouldn't matter imo.

Sure they could definitely have him as an alt costume as well, im not saying that cant or wont happen, but his design is all dependent on what kojima and company put forth as far as assets go and how they want certain things portrayed. I just think it would be a nice change that wouldnt shake things up to much, and i think this design would be the best way to go. Hes still the character of snake in this smash bros(like OOT link to TP Link) and nothing will change that, Id say it just brings more potential IMO than it would cause harm, especially with his codec convos and all the new characters he had back and forth with in mgs3 and peacewalker, hes got otacons father which fills that niche as well. I mean just a codec convo with chico and pit would be hilarious since they are voiced by the same guy.

D

Deleted member

Guest

#29

That's exactly my point.
Instead of "replacing" the two Snakes, just make it one big fat Snake that is essentially both Solid and Naked. (This sentence would sound SO wrong out of context....)
Some Codecs can be with Solid's crew, some can be with Naked's crew.

Scoliosis Jones

Kept you waiting, huh?

Writing Team

#30

GoldenYuiitusin said:
That's exactly my point.
Instead of "replacing" the two Snakes, just make it one big fat Snake that is essentially both Solid and Naked. (This sentence would sound SO wrong out of context....)
Some Codecs can be with Solid's crew, some can be with Naked's crew.

I'll be chuckling at this for a bit I think. The "solid and naked" part anyway

Robert of Normandy

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

#31

I don't think making Smash Snake a composite of Naked and Solid would work out, though I think asthetically making him a mix would be fine, just as long as it was clear which one he was.

Scoliosis Jones

Kept you waiting, huh?

Writing Team

#32

As far as I know, Brawl's Snake is a composite (all I know about is the full beard being a Big Boss thing, and the green headband. Idk what else). It's clearly Solid though so they could pull it off again if they adjusted a few things I suppose.

D

Deleted member

Guest

#33

If I recall, it was Big Boss that had a fascination over eating various animals rather than Solid Snake, so the whole wanting to eat Yoshi thing might have been from him.

Also, Snake uses the occasional C3 molded into a butterfly shape instead of the C4 in Brawl, so that's another Big Boss thing, since Solid Snake never used those.

EDIT: And I believe his alternate costumes were all sneaking suit varieties Big Boss used rather than Solid.

HylianHeroBigBoss

Smash Lord

#34

GoldenYuiitusin said:
If I recall, it was Big Boss that had a fascination over eating various animals rather than Solid Snake, so the whole wanting to eat Yoshi thing might have been from him.

Also, Snake uses the occasional C3 molded into a butterfly shape instead of the C4 in Brawl, so that's another Big Boss thing, since Solid Snake never used those.

EDIT: And I believe his alternate costumes were all sneaking suit varieties Big Boss used rather than Solid.

True, the camo patterns and the yoshi part as well as the CQC was all from big boss, since up until 4 solid snake never really used it.

Robert of Normandy

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

#35

GoldenYuiitusin said:
If I recall, it was Big Boss that had a fascination over eating various animals rather than Solid Snake, so the whole wanting to eat Yoshi thing might have been from him.

Also, Snake uses the occasional C3 molded into a butterfly shape instead of the C4 in Brawl, so that's another Big Boss thing, since Solid Snake never used those.

EDIT: And I believe his alternate costumes were all sneaking suit varieties Big Boss used rather than Solid.

Still, those are largely asthetic things.

Diddy Kong

Smash Obsessed

#36

If we'd get Wario-like costume switches again for more characters, why not different voice actors for these costumes as well? Making them more like alternative versions of the characters.

Scoliosis Jones

Kept you waiting, huh?

Writing Team

#37

The thing with Big Boss is that he has the same voice actor as Snake. They literally have the same voice.

Other characters, like Dark Pit/ Pit would be great though.

D

Deleted member

Guest

#38

Well, except in MGS4, given that having two characters speaking to each other in the same voice would be rather awkward.

Though for intents and purposes of having young Big Boss, he'd have the same voice clips most likely.

HylianHeroBigBoss

Smash Lord

#39

Yea he could retain the same voice clips easily with the transition to big boss, even some of them when hes eating are from naked snake like "tasty". I just think naked snake and his recent games bring a slew of other new things into the mix, rather than just having otacon and the crew return and MGS2 snake all over again. Its all up to what hideo wants to put forth though to the smash bros team

Scoliosis Jones

Kept you waiting, huh?

Writing Team

#40

I'm just hoping A Snake gets into the game. I'm really hoping (and assuming) that Snake won't be removed. But I do have my doubts...

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