the REAL fox counter-character list

Deleted member · Nov 6, 2005

For our fav. furry Fox:

countered by:
falco (non-FD only)
marth (FD only) *

even with:
falco (FD only)
roy (FD only)
marth (non-FD only)
sheik
mario
doc
peach *
ICs *

counters:
bowser
yoshi
DK *
Falcon
Ganon
Kirby
Ness *
Jigglypuff *
Samus
Pichu *
roy (non-FD only)
luigi
link
young link
Zelda
mewtwo *
G&W
pikachu *

* = can take fox 0 to death, any DI, usually from a grab.

Dopey · Nov 6, 2005

u forgot the * by falcos name =) and even FD falco can own fox, just ask chillin

white peachy · Nov 6, 2005

that list looks correct to me.

NJzFinest · Nov 6, 2005

good job meow
im just wonderin how ness can kill fox from 0 to death (sry if im a ness newb). dat's de only part i dont understand; maybe you should go in depth with dis to help other players.

Da illest · Nov 6, 2005

luigi is da illest!

FalseFalco · Nov 6, 2005

Peach on any stage counters Fox more than Marth on only FD.

NJzFinest · Nov 7, 2005

wait, luigi can kill fox 0 to death. luigi is good at juggling fast fallers
also zelda can kill a newb fox from 0 to death (if the fox doesnt DI at all basically)

derf · Nov 7, 2005

this is the only logical fox counter list ive seen. couple comments/questions:

aren't the mario/doc matches somewhat fd dependant?

luigi can't combo fox from 0 to death if the fox DIs basically at all

and i would argue fox beats peach, especially a defensive fox. and peach really shouldnt combo fox from zero to death either.

h1roshi · Nov 7, 2005

yeah a fox that has mastered the art of smashing the c-stick up can beat a peach.

-hiroshi

FalseFalco · Nov 7, 2005

A peach that has mastered the art of cstick down can compete with a fox.

derf · Nov 7, 2005

hahahahaha falsefalco youre my hero

Deleted member · Nov 7, 2005

1st thing it's not my list because other people lose to peach. fox SHOULD beat peach. downsmash is easy to avoid and it's not like you can combo into a CC downsmash for a free 70%.

fox can DI luigi's combos. Also, fox can just run and spam to beat luigi pretty easily. fox counters luigi.

zelda has more problems with fox than any other character.

play vidjogamer. his peach will combo your fox 0 to death.

FalseFalco · Nov 7, 2005

I lose to peach.

Maybe it's the constant fear of dsmash that really kills me. I can't dtilt from this fear, and Fox's recovery gets raaaaaaaaaaaaaaped by peach in every aspect.

Fox definatley has the advantage in straight out fighting and controls the fight well. But all peach needs to do is wait for a few lucky hits and then gay you off the edge, Fox has pretty much no hope of edgeguarding her too. Usmash is nice, but sneaking it under aerials gets you float cancelled and doing it aggressively gets you shield grabbed.

EnigmaticCam · Nov 7, 2005

FalseFalco said:
I lose to peach.

Maybe it's the constant fear of dsmash that really kills me. I can't dtilt from this fear, and Fox's recovery gets raaaaaaaaaaaaaaped by peach in every aspect.

Fox definatley has the advantage in straight out fighting and controls the fight well. But all peach needs to do is wait for a few lucky hits and then gay you off the edge, Fox has pretty much no hope of edgeguarding her too. Usmash is nice, but sneaking it under aerials gets you float cancelled and doing it aggressively gets you shield grabbed.

Well said. I have trouble with peach too. One thing I found to be effective is a well timed dash attack. She's so floaty, it's a perfect setup for (at low percentages) an up-tilt to either an up-smash or uair, or (at high percentages) a uair.

derf · Nov 8, 2005

UmbreonMow said:
play vidjogamer. his peach will combo your fox 0 to death.

not that you should feel obliged to tell me or give away someone else's tricks, but im curious as to how. there are admittedly a few holes in my peach knowledge

Deleted member · Nov 8, 2005

float cancel turnip to fair 2 a slap combo upthrow dtilt upthrow > chaingrab you till 140% upthrow nair. or sometimes downsmash, tech chase dash attack to grab, but tech chasing isn't inescapable, just **** close ^_~

if you DI off the stage, edgeguarded with float canceled bair.

float cancel bair is the only good solid way to edgeguard fox with peach. or fair slap if you have good timing. you can easily tech downsmash every time and then over B the edge so you're invincible. YAY free infinite from the edge.

no one downsmashes me more than once to edgeguard, if at all ^_^

peach is retardedly easy to kill between shinespikes and edgehogging. a peach off the stage is a dead ***** unless she's REALLY high.

derf · Nov 8, 2005

thanks for replying! a couple of questions about that combo though

couldnt you sidestep the slap to grab? and also when done on an aerial opponent dtilt has a spiking effect, so if peach wants to pop fox in the air she should have to let him land before hitting with the down tilt, which would let him tech, right? and also does up throw to down tilt combo before the chain grab starts? i remember fooling with that at one point with no success

BigT · Nov 8, 2005

Ok ill admit that some peoples peach are really good but for the most part a well played fox will destroy peach. All peach's combos use her d-smash and frankly if u want to beat peach with fox all u have to do is learn peach's d-smash and peach will have nothing against u. of course if u play against soemone really good such as vidjogamer then u will have to be a lot better to win. But an average peach player will most likely lose to an average fox player who knows peach's d-smash

Dopey · Nov 8, 2005

"All peach's combos use her d-smash"

what noobs do u play? rofl

Aldwyn McCloud · Nov 8, 2005

to give my honest semi-newbie opinion, Peach VS Fox is a match with an advantage for peach but not that big: projectile war is usually won by Fox because turnips can be grabbed/shined while blasters can't. Edgeguarding from any aspect is all an advantage for peach. Close combat comes down to a fight between speed and priority, depending also on the stage of the fight, but I think often priority is better. Mayby on FD Fox would be less pwned on other stages because lasers work better but I'd still give the advantage for peach eventough not very big on other stages, expecially for the D-smash, mother of all peach's attack...

y2kbakura · Mar 3, 2006

A defensive fox can beat peach by blaster spamming
End of story

Kadiev · Mar 3, 2006

y2kbakura said:
A defensive fox can beat peach by blaster spamming
End of story

So you saying you can beat any really good noticed peach player? Let me tell you something No because its not true and you know nothing. End of story

noob-lube69 · Mar 3, 2006

rofl @ "a defensive fox"

god, stfu

fox masta · Mar 3, 2006

from my understanding, falco can own fox on the edge like a mother truck. Falco is one of the best edge guarders. All Falco has 2 do is throw fox off the edge and smash him as he is coming back. Fox wont be albe to do anything

FastFox · Mar 3, 2006

What really screws me up when playing peach is not being able to edge guard. Like, the peach will be off the stage, and I'll think that I can just walk of with a B-air. But, alas! The umbrella in all it's uber-ness owns the fox, stage spiking him. When on the stage, it's always hard to get around when there's a D-smash, C-stick happy peach running around like a ****** doing you-know-what.

Thomaz · Mar 3, 2006

fox masta said:
from my understanding, falco can own fox on the edge like a mother truck. Falco is one of the best edge guarders. All Falco has 2 do is throw fox off the edge and smash him as he is coming back. Fox wont be albe to do anything

Ever heard of walljumpteching to an instant ForwardB, giving you invincibility?

@Flarefox, hold L/R while doing the Bair, you won't air dodge and tech the Umbrella when you get hit.

Player00 · Mar 3, 2006

Peach simply cannot touch a Fox who can do all of his advance techniques perfectly. If you can waveshine a Peach perfectly then you have a technique that is absolutely invaluable in this match. All it takes is one drill and Peach totally gets messed up by a true professional Fox player.

Fox counters Peach at both characters highest possible human playability.

NJzFinest · Mar 3, 2006

Player00 said:
Peach simply cannot touch a Fox who can do all of his advance techniques perfectly. If you can waveshine a Peach perfectly then you have a technique that is absolutely invaluable in this match. All it takes is one drill and Peach totally gets messed up by a true professional Fox player.

Fox counters Peach at both characters highest possible human playability.

dont be stupid. dont base things on potential or else sheik wouldnt even be considered the best in the game since obviously fox has the most potential. and plus, no human fox player has mastered everything nor would any human fox player say fox "OWNS" peach. peach has chaingrab, float cancel to grab or dsmash, good edge guard, etc.
you seem to underrate peach in ur posts.
actually, another thing on basing stuff on potential. at the highest possible human playability, every character would be able to do perfect power sheild counter attacks...so even pichu could match up to fox well.

DA_RAIN · Mar 4, 2006

looks nice im glad u didnt say fox counters sheik cause thats just not true

Shuriken · Mar 4, 2006

Nice list, glad someone finally made it official. Realistically I agree that Peach is an even match against Fox, because even though fox can technically take Peach 0 to death with waveshining back and forth on FD then upsmashing, its pretty impossible to do. Great job on the guide, but I have a question on the *'s. Shouldn't all of the characters that can take Fox from 0 to death at least be under "even with"?

NJzFinest · Mar 4, 2006

DA_RAIN said:
looks nice im glad u didnt say fox counters sheik cause thats just not true

fox vs sheik
ye, fox does **** her with up throw + repeative u-airs and shine combos, but sheik ***** in edge guarding and finishers. i think fox has a slight advantage, but i have yet to fight a good sheik, so im ok with sheik being even with fox

MookieRah · Mar 5, 2006

I personally think that the matchup with fox and Peach is still more even. A Peach well-versed against Fox can **** it up. A fox well-versed against Peach, can **** it up. They both have things that can destroy each other quickly and efficiently. I do say that Fox does have the ever so slight upper hand in the matchup though.

Starzonedge · Mar 5, 2006

I've always had more trouble with Marth's up-throw than Peach. She isn't all too fast to keep up with Fox. A lucky downsmash that takes you to 60% damage, yes, that is a problem, but isn't all too hard to avoid. They're very predictable in my opinion. Her edge-guarding, I'll admit, is another problem for the Fox player. Still, I've never seen Peach overall as a huge threat to my playing.

Player00 · Mar 6, 2006

foxandfalco said:
dont be stupid. dont base things on potential or else sheik wouldnt even be considered the best in the game since obviously fox has the most potential. and plus, no human fox player has mastered everything nor would any human fox player say fox "OWNS" peach. peach has chaingrab, float cancel to grab or dsmash, good edge guard, etc.
you seem to underrate peach in ur posts.
actually, another thing on basing stuff on potential. at the highest possible human playability, every character would be able to do perfect power sheild counter attacks...so even pichu could match up to fox well.

I believe I said the best humanly possible Fox. Not a perfect Fox. I can waveshine a Peach perfectly anyday. This is something that gets me about pro Foxes. For as good as they say they are, they seem to never use waveshining. The only Fox I have seen who has made really effective use of the waveshine in a match was MoFo in his video against PC Chris(MoFo was Fox, PC Chris was Marth). You never see a Fox waveshine a Peach like 5 times in a row and end it with an USmash. This works wonders at FD. The point I was getting at is that if a Peach even as much as gets hit by a drill(which is easy to do) at about 60% on FD she is dead. You can just waveshine her a few times after the drill and end with an USmash. That is an amazing finisher that Peach just can't match. All of the things she has on Fox(with the exception of the CT) can be dealt with. The DSmash edgeguard is entirely to easy to edge tech. The DSmash can be DIed. FThrow can be DIed. Her float is the biggest thing going for her, but it does not in any way equal the shine. Please don't overrate Peach. It seems fact to me that the best human with Fox will beat the best human Peach. The waveshine is wayyy to strong in the match.

BTW, foxandfalco, I find it funny that we have such different views on Peach. I mean I know where you're coming from, but I just don't have the same mindset about her. I think it is because you are refering to Peachs such as Vidjo and Wife. You know, the best Peachs out there. Where as I am refering to the average high level Peach you would see at a tournament.

numberonenacho · Sep 15, 2006

it could be said that jiggly counters fox or even with? because rest combos easier to hit fast fallers? yes? any one agree with me

ihatethecape · Sep 16, 2006

i agree with you to a certain extent cuz i'ma puff player as well but heres the thing i think more experienced players will agree with. a very good technical fox will have the upperhand against a peach and jiggly. then and only then does fox have the advantage. you have to rely on your techincal ability to defeat a good peach or puff with fox.

radical00edward · Sep 16, 2006

i would say samus is about even with fox.. me and my friend are about even... i can beat him if he is any other character..

Shmooguy · Sep 17, 2006

Fox > Peach.

At Wife and Vidjo's level, this gap shortens, but the further down you go, the more overwhelming the fox player is for peach. Even if you're fast enough to smash DI out of the utilt, Usmash is still too much, especially when you waveshine to Usmash. Fox's aerials are too quick, and he's next to impossible to grab because of the shine. Plus, he can always just land behind you. Priority evens out this match a bit, but fox still has too many options and can act too quick for peach.

Wouldn't most fox players want to fight a peach over a shiek or marth? And explain to me how doc and mario are even with fox. chainthrows aren't enough to even it out, imo.

Sinz · Sep 17, 2006

Samus is ***** by fox. Don't give anything about that.

ArcNatural · Sep 18, 2006

Well for the Mario and Doc being even, As long as they DI you can't waveshine them. A Fox off the ledge against a good Mario/Doc is dead. And both Mario/Doc combo fast fallers as well as they CT them. You can't really edgeguard Doc either when he comes from above since he will pill before reaching the ledge. Fox can do the same to the Mario's so it makes them even. Fox deals with other characters much better than Mario does overall though.

the REAL fox counter-character list

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