Yoshi v. Mario

Shiri · Mar 12, 2006

In an attempt to jumpstart some character discussion and examine what little we can (that we don't already know) of Yoshi, I want to see what people think of Yoshi versus Mario.

I, for one, despise playing this matchup. The only thing about that I like is that I find Mario particularly easy to meteor on almost any stage. I think Mario's tilts, down air, and jump-cancelled grabs make quick work of a careless Yoshi. A defensive Yoshi might not be too much better off since I also feel that Mario can apply great pressure to Yoshi's shield and crouch-cancelling--especially in corners.

Mario's forward smash is too good.

The couple things I believe Yoshi has going for him are his ever-dependable lightshield, down tilt, his ability to use most of his moves to apply pressure to Mario's relatively mediocre shield, and, as I said before, a remarkably easy time meteoring this particular foe.

I guess responses don't have to be in-depth or pages long (as I usually end up doing unwittingly), but I just want to know what other Yoshi players are up to in their own realm of matchups. Hopefully I'll learn something and everyone else will, too.

King Kong · Mar 12, 2006

I've actually been playing this matchup alot lately, more against Doc than Mario but all the same.

I find its not a good idea to play defensively. Mostly because pill/fireball setups stuff up your crouch cancel game and they can just sit back and spam all day. IMo the best way to take mario is to get in his face as much a possible. Up close I use DJC sex kicks alot L-canceled into tap or D-smash. Like you said the D-tilt is great but its better used defensively.

I dunno. I jsut find that mario can have a tough time KOing yoshi because Yoshi is very heavy and mario lacks an abuseable K.O move. Marios edgeguarding on Yoshi is not that great either.

I dont think either character has a particularly pronounced advantage over the other.

peace out

Hat Hair · Mar 12, 2006

Playing against a CPU, I've come to find that it's much easier to pull a uair (DJC'd or not) off after u-throwing instead of d-throwing. I don't know when I'll be playing my friend who plays Mario next, so if someone would be so kind as to try this out the next time they play a Mario...

D1 · Mar 13, 2006

IMO I hate this matchup cuz first off smart Marios would wait patiently for Yoshi to shffl somethin in front of them and wavedash back into an fsmash...one nice thing tho if u move in close and expect an fsmash if Yoshi's fsmashes also he could dodge the Mario's fsmash and fsmash the ***** BACK! ROFL Other than that if Yoshi airdodges before sweetspottin the ledge the cape would stuff his recovery if he doesn't airdodge over the ledge. Also Mario's **** Cape stops my egg spam from the ledge or midstage causing me to think about gettin in close but a smart defensive Mario would just wait for the opportunity to shieldgrab into w/e combos he could get out on Yoshi or wavedash back into fsmash like I previously stated. So all in all, its a tough matchup just for the fact that Yoshi has to mix up his approach and sorta get Mario moving when he stands still so that you could read what he's doin and he can't see what u have up ur sleeve. Other than what Mario has on Yoshi if Yoshi could land an fair+combo or dair it would greatly turn off Mario's cc game easily. Also dtilt is great at movin ur opponent closer to the edge. Another great thing about Yoshi is the way he could stuff Mario's recovery if he's using his down B u could egg him in the middle of the animation or if he uses his second jump (hopefully he doesn't cape). Usually if a Mario is far as hell from the stage he'll use mad maneuvers just to sweetspot the stage in the end (well if its FD anyway). Its best to stand on the stage to mindgame them into thinkin they could sweetspot and right after their second jump to upB to the instaedgehog and watch 'em be flabbergasted.

Yoshi's a tough cookie to be good w/ but w/ patience he could get thru the match fine (I got Wes's Mario to one stock w/ Yoshi if that counts for anything).

*edit* also don't count out dair for meteoring besides fair...cuz if Mario just so happens to cape you he'll still get caught in dair anyway so he falls lower (usually best used after u see his 2nd jump come out)...oh yeah make sure you still have ur jump left over after doin any maneuver over the edge...wouldn't wanna do a kamikaze :chuckle:

mood4food77 · Mar 13, 2006

i use doc, i hate this matchup, i hate fighting against a yoshi, i don't know how and the DJC owns me completely, i used mario and his fair was the only move i could do against my bro's DJCing yoshi, i despise this with a passion

Shiri · Mar 14, 2006

D1 said:
IMO I hate this matchup cuz first off smart Marios would wait patiently for Yoshi to shffl somethin in front of them and wavedash back into an fsmash...one nice thing tho if u move in close and expect an fsmash if Yoshi's fsmashes also he could dodge the Mario's fsmash and fsmash the ***** BACK!

Hmmm, I'll keep that in mind. Wavedash back to forward smash owns me from time to time. Sometimes I just forget that Mario is capable of that particular move.

Oh, that reminds me. Yoshi finally placed in his third Western New York tourney this past weekend. ^_^

Anyway...

I think the problem I have the most with Mario besides good approaches is my DI. I think I said in some earlier post somewhere in the depths of the Yoshi forum that fighting good Marios teaches you good DI. I stand by that, but it's still so hard sometimes, especially when he can go horizontal for the first half of a combo ( SHFFL'D up-air to SHFFL'D neutral-air, etc... ), then immediately switch it up to vertical hits ( ...to wavedash'd up tilt, up smash ) and I find myself caving in to agility-based Mario comboes sometimes.

Oh yeah. I also think Mario's grab kind of tilts the advantage slightly to that of a defensive Mario. His grab is fairly quick, I think and I find myself getting caught unawares sometimes. Especially when I get airgrabbed. x_x

rmusgrave · Mar 14, 2006

I heard on the hub that you have to DI away from Mario always. Same as Marth apparently.

Although I'm not so sure about down throw, that may be different. And the obvious ones like F-smash and D-smash.

Although I do think that Mario has the advantage on the stage, both him and Doc have really bad recoveries. That's basically where you have to strike, by d-tilting off the edge at low % or d-smashing at higher %, and mindgaming the instantedgehog. This way, you can survive to 150%+, where Mario/Doc survives till 100% at best. It's sort of similar to the Falcon Falco and Fox matchups in that regard.

D1 · Mar 14, 2006

3rd Place?!!! GOOD SH** SHIRI!!!!!!!! ^_^

:yoshi:

I'll keep that in mind, could Mario CG Yoshi w/ dthrow?

phish-it · Mar 14, 2006

The Yosh doesn't seem to have the advantage over this match up. Watch out for the cape, it can screw your recovery big time, such as using the ground pound to grab the ledge, only to be flipped around.... The d- tilt works well for knocking the opponent away and ready for an edgeguard. I'll have to try using the F-smash to counter Mario's F-smash though.

Shiri · Mar 14, 2006

Yo, guys. I just got back from playing about two hours of Mario and Doc v. Yoshi.

After playing from both sides, I have to say, I'm kinda disappointed.

Hat Hair said:
Playing against a CPU, I've come to find that it's much easier to pull a uair (DJC'd or not) off after u-throwing instead of d-throwing. I don't know when I'll be playing my friend who plays Mario next, so if someone would be so kind as to try this out the next time they play a Mario...

What I like to do with this is after an up-throw, is toss a few eggs if I can (1 or 2; not too many), and then, especially if the stage is a platformed one, go for an up air. If I DJC, I try to land on a platform and go for another DJC'd up air or neutral air from there. Watch out that your double jump isn't broken by Mario's neutral air. I had this happen a few times, and I was heartbroken when it did, because sure as the sun rises, I wasn't expecting the move, used bad DI, and fell to death.

D1 said:
I'll keep that in mind, could Mario CG Yoshi w/ dthrow?

Yes. I played as Yoshi against Mario and as Mario against a surprisingly good Yoshi that lives near me. The results were pretty consistent. It seems that from about 20% to 40%, you can escape or use DI-from-heck to get out of it, but I was able to start at 0%, chain up throws and up tilts to about 30 or 40%, then down throw chain all the way to 118%. All the grabs were jump-cancelled and I tossed in two headbutts on every throw after 50%. It was a little too easy, but then again, the victim may have been DI'ing incorrectly. The earlies I was able to escape from a down throw chain was around 60%. Even still, I have to get pretty lucky, because I forget that even if I double jump out of the bounce, Mario can still airgrab. x_x

phish-it said:
The Yosh doesn't seem to have the advantage over this match up. Watch out for the cape, it can screw your recovery big time, such as using the ground pound to grab the ledge, only to be flipped around.

Oddly enough, I was never caped or did any caping. It seems that Mario's up-air has more than enough range and priority to not only stop the hip drop, but also to knock Yoshi a fair distance from the ledge. What I like is that I've been able to get caped while egg cancelling, and still grab the ledge. Thought the was pretty cool.

The shining moment for today: I got knocked off of FD and tried to make it back, but was too far out. Mario was ledgehogging in order to stop me from air dodging to the edge. He stayed there, knowing I couldn't make it back. Unfortunately for him, he was in forward-air range. DONE.

It'll probably never happen again EVER, but it made me smile when it did.

The end.

P.S. - Watch out for back-air chains. I can't get out of 'em. x_x

Shine Spiked · Mar 14, 2006

Thats a tough match... since I love both yoshi and mario... (Doc mario). But mario all the same. It pretty much comes down to overall skill, but dam do i love yoshi's fair. (SPAM THAT ALL DAY)

D1 · Mar 14, 2006

Shine Spiked said:
dam do i love yoshi's fair. (SPAM THAT ALL DAY)

Um u spam anything all day u meet ur doom at a tournament thats the number one rule of thumb especially against a matchup thats not in your favor...gotta keep things fresh or you're gonna kept pwned.

tehPhire · Mar 14, 2006

yoshi + Mario = tehRape. Pick a differennt main......use Roy!

Shiri · Mar 14, 2006

Hmm...maybe the next topic should be Yoshi v. Roy?

I could call it "Intro. to Comboing Swordsmen."

Done.

tehPhire · Mar 15, 2006

Relax I was just kidding no need to go on the offensive. I'm sorry for being an ***

Shiri · Mar 15, 2006

No, no, no, I was just joking around, too. I like fighting Roy because I can combo him all day is all.

Sorry about that. ^_^

rmusgrave · Mar 16, 2006

Speaking of Roy, has anyone faced a Roy that knew how to do the Reverse Up-B edgeguard? I was wondering how effective that actually is.

Good job on the Mario info Shiri.

Shiri · Mar 16, 2006

rmusgrave said:
Speaking of Roy, has anyone faced a Roy that knew how to do the Reverse Up-B edgeguard? I was wondering how effective that actually is.

Never. Hmmm, makes me curious, though.

King Kong · Mar 19, 2006

I had this matchup a few weeks ago and got a video made of me playing my friends Mario. I thought id put it up just to show.

True to my form i spend half the match trying to do pivots, DJC's and Sh-B-air DJ and so get knocked around a fair bit lol.

This is however the first ever vid with Yoshis Sh B-air DJ in it (towards the very end) do i feel proud? Oh yes i do lol

http://files.filefront.com/King_Kong_yoshi_vs_Scrubs_mari/;4837006;;/fileinfo.html

peace out

Shiri · Mar 19, 2006

Respect: +10,000. GOOD. STUFF.

00:24 -- Almost finished that nice offensive round. Good stuff with the neutral air, though.

00:40 -- Almost. I would've gotten angry and attempted a reverse forward-air at that point and probably SD'd myself. Good job.

01:21 -- Combos like that make me feel helpless whenever I can't get out of them. I cry when Mario juggles me.

02:21 -- I still can't pivot very well. Do you find it useful?

03:23 -- The prize moment here. Well done.

Good stuff, King Kong. I enjoyed it.

P.S. - By the way, I officially retract my "I can combo Roy all day" statement. I got Rambo-dagger'd by my old roommate a couple days ago. It was brutal. x_x

King Kong · Mar 21, 2006

Thanks Shiri. I wasnt playing very well though. I usually two or three stock that Mario and i noticed I didnt throw a single egg or get a single grab............

I dont recommend learning pivots... they are cool but they take ages to learn and they arnt worth the time.... sometimes they pay off........ its a matter of choice

peace out

Shiri · Mar 24, 2006

So, I just fought a Roy that used the Reverse Blazer to edgeguard me yesterday.

If I remember correctly, it cut through my double jump at about 60%. Can't quite recall exactly. It definately caught me off guard, but I was close enough to the stage to detumble and air dodge to the ledge.

Just letting you guys know.

rmusgrave · Mar 24, 2006

Fair enough. I've always thought it was fairly easily counterable, but when Neo mentioned it he believed otherwise. Also, the reverse blazer cuts through the DJ at 0%. Thanks for looking into it Shiri.

CAOTIC · Mar 24, 2006

Hi Bringer! <3

unknown522 · Mar 25, 2006

to beat mario with any char, ABUSE REACH AND PRIORITY!!

Shiri · Mar 25, 2006

rmusgrave said:
...the reverse blazer cuts through the DJ at 0%...

HAL really knows how to make my day. >_>

Geez, I can't wait to see what cuts through this man's DJ next. x_x

Honestly, though, I didn't know it could break the DJ from 0%, but seeing what all else the Reverse Blazer does, I'm not that surprised. I guess it was just a matter of the match that I got hit at around 60% and not earlier. I don't even wanna know how much I would have cried if it had happened any earlier. x_x

rmusgrave · Mar 26, 2006

<3 Cao ^_^

I'm not surprised that the reverse blazer cuts it at 0% myself. Considering if Roy uses it on Jigglypuff on FD, and the Jiggs doesn't DI, it's an instant death. That's plenty of knockback to breakthrough your DJ. Still, the easiest way to defeat it would be to wind up a f-air. That way, you're not DJing if he decides to reverse blazer you and you can recover, or you spike him and win anyway.

In essence, this post was just to say <3 to Cao >_>

BETA · Mar 26, 2006

Oh, that reminds me. Yoshi finally placed in his third Western New York tourney this past weekend. ^_^

How good were the people there? Because no offense, if it was against a bunch of scrubs, it doesn't count as a Yoshi victory...

Shiri · Mar 27, 2006

Hey now...hey now...

This is the Yoshi v. Mario thread. Not the "I may or may not have gone to a scrub tourney with my scrub Yoshi" thread. ^_^

D1 · Mar 27, 2006

lol don't hate BETA the man placed high the man placed high : P

Since Mario has evil wicked combos on ppl w/ his shffled uairs question...if Yoshi happens to get caught up in them could I DJ nair out? I never got caught in an uair chain w/ Yoshi so I'm not totally sure if its possible...

...hmm even tho this rule applies to everyone w/ Yoshi v. Mario spacing is key. I dunno if I said that b4 but yeah and I believe fsmash has evil range cuz I was watchin a vid of an fsmash hittin at the maximum pixel/hitbox I was like wtf son has Marth-like range but I gotta dig up the vid...its not Yoshi v. Mario tho so I guess its not important T_T...but as of now I fear backwards wd to fsmash T_T

One sorta solution I tried to do to counter that would be a shffl forward to a reverse DJ wd to run away if u see the opponent wd back or get ready to attack thinkin ur about to hit 'em w/ an fair. I just started doin this as a taunt but I think it could be a good trick

Shiri · Apr 9, 2006

D1 said:
...hmm even tho this rule applies to everyone w/ Yoshi v. Mario spacing is key. I dunno if I said that b4 but yeah and I believe fsmash has evil range cuz I was watchin a vid of an fsmash hittin at the maximum pixel/hitbox I was like wtf son has Marth-like range but I gotta dig up the vid...its not Yoshi v. Mario tho so I guess its not important T_T...but as of now I fear backwards wd to fsmash T_T

What you are about to see is me getting tooled around by Mario and his forward smash.

Yes, you finally get to see EXACTLY how much I suck. Be nice. ^_~

Yoshi v. Mario. F-Smash STYLEZ.

Yeah, that's a tutorial in what NOT to do against Mario. Have fun with that.

Saur · Apr 9, 2006

^^^ Animal cruelty!!!

I didn't think you sucked, btw.

(I liked the wd back to egg lay :chuckle:

)

The |Egg| Sniper · Apr 10, 2006

There are a few tricks I could suggest for vs Mario:
1)While on the ground, try using dtilt to charge attack. Usually you can squeeze in two or three charge attacks, and if you dont, a caped dash will push you out of his range. This can carry him towards the edge.

2)While recovering, Mario relies on his cape. Use the temptation to reflect to your advantage and eggspam while he's recovering. The eggs can set up for a fair too if you nail him with one.

King Kong · Apr 13, 2006

I thought you were good shiri. Only got to watch half the match though.

peace out

YOSHIDO · Dec 30, 2007

i hate this match up. His ariels to down smash ****. I for one will never do this match again. yoshi can win. but F it.

Shiri · Dec 30, 2007

LOL Yoshido. I feel you on this matchup sometimes, son. It's sometimes not worth the effort.

Eltrotraw · Dec 31, 2007

I also play a mean Mario player who's picked up on Sheik to counter my Marth as well >.>

perhaps I could post a few vids of my attempts of Yoshi vs. Mario with him next time I get the chance?

technomancer · Dec 31, 2007

Pil$ ***** yoshi.

Two steps back, fsmash.

It's unstoppable.

Yoshi v. Mario

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