• Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!

    You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!

How to Watch a Combo Video

Randall00

Propitious Plumber
Joined
Feb 6, 2006
Messages
1,384
Location
Calgary, Alberta, Canada
Slippi.gg
RJM#615
How to Watch a Combo Video
An attempt to improve the community by Randall

There's already enough negativity and complete lack of respect for creativity on these boards to make me sick and I think I've figured out why.

What I didn't realize when I got into this Smash video-production gig was that the term "combo video" has a surprisingly strict historical definition, dating back to the 2-D fighters. In the earliest combo videos, the definition was strictly literal, showcasing nothing but combos, being defined as sequences of uninterruptible attacks. These videos were marketed to a very particular audience, namely the competitive players of the game who wanted to explore the boundaries of its engine by challenging the strengths of their fingers.

As games themselves became more elaborate, both in gameplay and in graphics, the subsequent recordable footage became more interesting to the viewer's eye. As the internet phenomenon of YouTube can attest to, any time that videos become more interesting to the viewer, the audience inevitably expands and all of a sudden, these tech-heavy combo videos are being watched by people who only play casually and can hardly tell what's going on. Time went on and the interested audience continued to grow which meant that the footage had to stay fresh and appealing to allow the community to flourish. I watched an old Guilty Gear video today that opened with a clip of a very rapid one-hit KO immediately after the "Fight!" announcement. I don't know anything about the game or whether it was technically difficult to pull off or not, but it was five seconds of my life that I do not consider wasted. As simple as it is, footage of a one-hit KO in a game I've never seen before is still kinda cool to watch. That said, long-time players of the game have likely seen it many times and if there was GuiltyGearBoards.com, I'd put twenty bucks on several people questioning why it was in there. "Uh, isn't this supposed to be a combo video? That's not a combo." Great, thanks for the feedback, *******. :psycho:

And so now we are in the technologically magnificent generation of video gaming and there's this well-established community of 40,000 strong occasionally watching some Smash videos. As I said, with improvements to graphics, gameplay and, indeed, even the latest in video editing software, recording hardware and filesharing, creating your own video and uploading it to the internet for the masses is just too easy. And since practically anyone with an e-mail address can do this, the master library of videos is going to take a pretty sharp decline in overall quality (the same thing happened to fan fiction, I'm sure some of you writers know). However, the advent of technology also allows for a whole lot more creative wiggle room for those people who choose to put effort into the combo videos that get lost in the mix. SSBM, in particular, is a wonderful game to be capturing exciting footage from and I suspect that those who haven't really explored the field probably don't realize how versatile Camera Mode can be. Thus, the concept of an artistic combo video came to be, whether it was meant to exist or not.

Now, the first artistic combo video I saw was Mariotality 2, and at the time, I was still unaware of the difference between an artistic combo video and a technical one. In fact, I'm fairly certain that silversh4dow himself was unaware of the difference as well. Which is fair, because it seems that whether or not your video demonstrates "tech skill" is decided by the audience, not you. It is now clear to me that most people do in fact make their combo videos to try and demonstrate their technical ability in the game. However, whereas most people create videos under this pretense, it seems that ALL videos are watched with the expectation that the gameplay is going to be impressive. I should also mention that these concepts of artistic videos and technical ones are certainly not opposites; Mariotality 2 features technically sound gameplay (despite some disagreement amidst the obligatory "noob DI" comments) but the only reason it truly outshines the other Mario videos is all in presentation. It is viewable at the full 60 frames per second, features tastefully synchronous background music, a flashy high-energy Camera Mode/AR-produced introduction and even a live-action video sample from a feature film.

And then there's this.

Any hack can cut and glue footage together and put it to some music, but it takes time to put together the entire thing as a cinematic (for lack of a better word) production. The real problem is with viewer mentality. As I mentioned in another thread, it's as though everyone in this community is so hung up on technical skill that you're forgetting about the fact that this is the only game where you can capture footage of an ape in a necktie driving his foot into the chest of an elven child whilst riding a giant floating sea lion; that's a helluva story and you can bet that the National Enquirer doesn't care about DI.

That said, I don't want to sound as though I am belittling a technical combo video, but at the state of the game right now, if you're good enough to post a video that will actually impress people, there's just no excuse for it not to be at least decently-produced. There's a whole class of Smash video producers that I haven't mentioned up to this point who don't star in the videos themselves, but instead just compile footage from uploaded matches. If your gameplay is actually exciting and revolutionary enough to rock the socks off the community by simply posting a low-quality montage of black-and-white combos with static for background music, I'm sure there's someone in the community who would be willing to help clean it up a little. My true belief is that the technical combo video is a dead medium for SSBM, but I would not discourage anyone who thinks otherwise and neither should you.

Bottom Line: Stop abusing people for not being better at Smash than they are and never tell someone to stop playing.

Thanks.

P.S. You'll also notice that there's no video in this thread; if you took the time to read everything above, I hope you'll understand why. If you didn't, I will divulge an equally small amount of attention to your reply. :)
 

pockyD

Smash Legend
Joined
Jul 21, 2006
Messages
11,926
Location
San Francisco, CA
want to be artistic? fine.

there is STILL a threshold of decent play that people want to see to be entertained; i'm sure you could have 400 different shots of a single marth tipper all displayed in fantastic artistic fashion, but no one would watch it because the base material, which is what most people here (me included) want to see, is faulty

gameplay is the #1 most important part of a combo video; everything else is just gravy
 

Vyse

Faith, Hope, Love, Luck
BRoomer
Joined
Jul 6, 2005
Messages
9,561
Location
Brisbane, Australia
It depends on why you want to watch the combo video in the first place in my opinion.

But you are definitely correct Randall. One of my favourite combo videos is a Rival Schools 2 combo video, I've never even played the game, and don't have much insight into the technical difficulty of some of the combos in it, but I still find myself impressed by the amount effort that went into syncing the music to the video itself. The combo's were impressive, but it was the music, the 'Artistic appeal' that has led me to watch it time and again.

What Randall is trying to do is explain a phenomenon that occurs in nearly all facets of media like this. It is true, the state of fanfiction is spiralling into a decline as the years go by, which I find myself saddened by. The same goes for Anime Music Videos, there are some REALLY good ones, however, you'll find 90% of them out there are indeed Dragon Ball Z garbage.

As people gain the tools to do what great producers such as masterwumpus can do, they don't realise that other little thing they need is left behind. The talent.
 

t!MmY

Smash Hero
Joined
Dec 22, 2005
Messages
5,146
Location
Oregon
NNID
t1mmy_smash
I completely understand Randall00, and I appreciate the quality of your post. Combo videos are evolving due to the growth of the audience.

Without artistic flair, the majority of the audience will become alienated. Not everyone wants to sit and watch vids for technical appreciation. And even those who understand combo videos at an advanced level don't always want to see the same combos and the same videos time and again.

BTW, lol at linking individual words to post examples.
 

darkatma

Smash Hero
Joined
Dec 10, 2005
Messages
5,747
Location
St Louis, Missouri/Fremont, CA
How to Watch a Combo Video
An attempt to improve the community by Randall

(the same thing happened to fan fiction, I'm sure some of you writers know).

Bottom Line: Stop abusing people for not being better at Smash than they are and never tell someone to stop playing.

Thanks.

P.S. You'll also notice that there's no video in this thread; if you took the time to read everything above, I hope you'll understand why. If you didn't, I will divulge an equally small amount of attention to your reply. :)
**** straight
poor fanfiction.. *is sad everytime i go there* It's fairly hard to find a well written story amidst all the poorly written and gramatically lacking junk on there

And I completely agree with your post. I liked mariotality 2, and there was also a great pichu vid made by t0mmy (I believe) that was awesome because it was creative, but people still complained about DI.
 

Demongod86

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Dec 2, 2005
Messages
118
Fanfiction is for the creatively challenged that need the hardest parts done for them. Fanfiction writers are like those putting icing on a cake, who don't actually bake it themselves.

Of COURSE most of them will suck.
 

Luigi Ka-master

Smash Lord
Joined
Sep 8, 2005
Messages
1,310
Location
Laie, HI
One of my favorite vids has to be the Silent Assasin. That vid is so awesomely synched, and there's some pretty awesome combos as well. And the music is incredible. The credits are pretty amazing as well. >_>

Yeah, it's an awesome video. Anyways, I agree for the most part. And you might as well make the video pretty-looking, because now adays it's near impossible to make a video where the tech skill is impressive, and fresh enough to keep the audience watching.
 

Vyse

Faith, Hope, Love, Luck
BRoomer
Joined
Jul 6, 2005
Messages
9,561
Location
Brisbane, Australia
Fanfiction is for the creatively challenged that need the hardest parts done for them. Fanfiction writers are like those putting icing on a cake, who don't actually bake it themselves.

Of COURSE most of them will suck.
I want to object.
But I can't find any plausible response.

What about horror fanfiction, in which the main characters of whatever story are killed off?
That can be pretty satisfying if you hate the people who die.
 

Wak

BRoomer
BRoomer
Joined
Aug 19, 2005
Messages
3,165
Location
Somewhere people speak french
I liked to watch those links at the end of your post. And I gave an infraction point to this guy saying ''stop playing''.

According to me, people have a lot of trouble at making a constructive critism. Usually, people with no combo vid are thoses capable to be really mean. Those like me or Randall or Mediocre Man that KNOWS the effort behind a combo vid are those capable to post a constructive critism. But the worst is obviously when they don't even say WHY the player was looking bad.

At all, listen at Randall, be intelligent and stop flaming stupid *******z
 

booshk

Smash Lord
Joined
May 14, 2006
Messages
1,104
i believe some of those posts u linked at the bottom are just people showing their opinion about the combo video but some are people making fun of peoples skill.
the last link u posted were to matches. it is very uh... mean to say stop playing but it was true that guy should have lasered more. but not stop playing ^o)

naw mean?
 

Rock Lobsta

Smash Journeyman
Joined
May 20, 2006
Messages
299
Location
somewhere else
Youre right, I just hate it when people tell someone to throw their game system out the window. If you think ssbm combo video replies are bad..look at halo 2 montage videos and look at the replies. Those are just soooo horrible. No one says anything nice at ALL. its all " noob you cant aim, let me pwn you, gamertag=....." thats like every single post.

Thats why i never tell people their videos suck (unless they truly do)
 
D

Deleted member

Guest
10 fiuresss
You tell 'em Zac


On topic: I don't really get the point of this thread, combo videos aren't things you aren't allowed to criticize

Even if they have artistic flair, some art is just plain crappy, so when someone does throw some dumb, pretentious piece of crap art at me, I'm gonna criticize it.
 

Vall3y

Smash Lord
Joined
Jul 10, 2005
Messages
1,619
Location
Israel
people look at the actuall gameplay.
you dont see people give bad critiques on the video edit, because no one expects you to be a professional video maker.
 

Joner

Smash Cadet
Joined
Nov 2, 2006
Messages
54
Location
Sweden
I totally agree. And sure, you can criticise, but really, learn good, constructive criticism...
 

Samochan

Smash Master
Joined
Jun 2, 2006
Messages
3,450
Location
I'm in your house, dsmashing your tv
I agree on everything what Randal posted except that I still wonder why he linked to KK90's post, which was a good post with constructive criticism on it, and right on knack too.

Anyways... too many people complain about the DI on combo videos, but they should also consider that with good DI, comboes are not so walk in the park anymore, if impossible to do. So DI = no combo vids. What I'd like to see from a combo vid myself is decent DI at least and trying to break out of comboes at minimum, but the combo video maker mindgaming or making it so that they're caught in the combo nevertheless, making it more impressive combo since the opposing player is trying to get out of it. I also like the artistic flair on combo videos, especially if the music synchs with the video. Noone should really criticise how the videos are edited and if the quality is not from VCR, since obviously not everyone possess such equipment and Adobe Premier costs a lot of money. Some people don't even have Windows movie maker at hand. But nevertheless many don't care to give comments of the actual video, but complain about the video quality. I've seen that too many times, sadly. :/
 

nitro-blazer

Smash Lord
Joined
Jun 22, 2005
Messages
1,399
Location
Donkey Kong.
I agree. I've got no problem with constructive criticism, for example, "It helps if you use MOVE A against CHARACTER B because it can juggle them due to their falling speed, you should try that." Of course, that's the watered down variety.

But it bugs me when people tell you that you suck, but don't give you any advice to get better. Or, I've seen people post in combo videos before "Your opponents suck at breaking combos". If it's a combo video, why would you put in clips of your combos getting broken? I understand DI and teching, as it makes it even more impressive if you combo them despite their efforts.
 

CWolf20

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Dec 8, 2006
Messages
223
Location
Madison, WI
I feel like the reality is that there are a lot of people who can do the same combos now. So your choices in a combo video are these:

1. Show more advanced combos (be waaaay better than everyone else, or at least get lucky), or,

2. Edit the video better. Sync up moves, throw in some non-gameplay footage of something funny or relevant, give it some flavor.

I'm sick of combo videos where you see the same 4 combos over and over. As much as they impress me technically, they get boring over time. I'd rather see someone make videos of semi-impressive technical skill really well than a crappily put together technically impressive video.

If I'm looking to get better at the game, I'll play it more and read up on strats, or watch some full game videos. If I'm looking to a video simply to be entertained, I'm going to want to see a video that gives me something more than just gameplay. I just saw that Mariotality 2 video for the first time, and it was easily one of my favorite videos I've seen, and not because of how good his combos are, but because of the production values.

This isn't to say that technical videos aren't entertaining, they just have to stand out if that's what the video is about.

Well, that's my opinion, anyways.
 

divine knight

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Feb 1, 2002
Messages
200
Location
Toronto, Ontario
lolol. i agree with you man. but only as far as (1) you do not know what you are critiqing, and (2) you are blowing something small into a bigger deal than it is. Those thousands of noobs that critique the worlds best, everyone sees them post on youtube vids about how a pro should have done something else :| And if you do not identify what needs improvement or you just merely slandered something instead of suggesting something, then you are wrong again.

But i found myself in one of the examples. I dont want to watch whatever vid i saw, but from what i recall, and i can be corrected, poor recovery attempts were made. It was a luigi vid and they just missiled into some spike. no tornado was executed, no anticipation, or anything. Then i suggested things. If anything my specific critique was standing up for luigi :p

anyway., kudos
 

N1c2k3

Smash Lord
Joined
Jan 21, 2005
Messages
1,193
Location
Lynchburg, Va
Premiere's free, and you can get an older versioin of Dazzle for 30 or less. Everyone's pretty much in agreement here. I think ppl are just not getting their point across blatantly enough, and others like to argue, so it's producing what seems like an argument. Basically; We should concentrate on all aspects, don't criticize on vid quality unless the person claims it is good or asks you to, lack of DI/screw ups are what produce combo vids so that's why they're in there, and don't just tell them they're bad without telling them what they did wrong or what they need to improve on. Not much else that needs to be said. Good read...
 

mkmelee

Smash Lord
Joined
Oct 17, 2005
Messages
1,008
Location
Toronto, Ontario
That wasn't an entertaining video, and there was 0 technical skill....

:laugh: True true. Myself as an artist and a smasher, I can really appreciate and notice the work put into these videos, and others should stop and take some time to as well.
 
Top Bottom