Brawl 64 - Back to the Basics - Announcement about the title screen

[WheelOfFish]

Brawl 64 is a working title. If you have better suggestions, let me know.

Some people prefer Melee, some people prefer Brawl, but anyone who's been with the Smash Bros. series since it's debut in 1999 has a soft spot for the original: Super Smash Bros. for the N64.

What if Super Smash Bros. hadn't evolved into what it is now gameplay-wise? What if the only changes done to it were cosmetic? What if Brawl's physics emulated SSB64?

Then we would have...

The Brawl 64 project will be mostly for fun... at least for now. If people want to host tournaments or make it a side event at a tournament, that's awesome. Character balance will come, but first priority is getting the physics and mechanics perfect.

This means (feel free to contribute if I missed anything on this list... it's more than likely that I did):
- Slight speed increase
- N64-esque hitstun
- L-canceling (unless people really want z-canceling... though I'm kinda attached to the idea of characters keeping all three taunts on the d-pad instead of one on the l-button since it doesn't affect gameplay)
- No chargable smash attacks
- No side-special (this doesn't mean that every character will lose their side-b, though certain characters will get their specials rearranged)
- Inescapable grabs, but no attacking during grabs (DK's cargo will still do damage and it will be escapable as it was in N64)
- Tiny edge-sweetspot
- Possible character model size reduction
- Enlarged stage boundaries
- Grabbing out of failed techs
- No fastfalling on aerials

If you are at all interested or able to contribute with advice, support, ideas, testing, coding, or anything else, post here! The original post will be updated regularly.​

 

[Mr.-0]

Sounds simlair to a project called smash 64 2.0 a while back. Weird. Cool, though.

 

[Shadic]

I've thought about this same thing.

Some questions though...

Would characters with changes movesets get their moves back, if possible? (Link's boomerang, Mario's DownB, etc?)
Would this come with custom stages made to be Smash64 levels? (IMO, Smash64 had the best levels, especially for how few)
What's happening with characters that weren't in Smash64? For example, Snake's USmash could be kinda lame without being able to be charged.
Andddd finally, why L Canceling instead of S Canceling?

 

[SymphonicSage12]

what's s cancelling or z cancelling?

and the no smash charging kinda turns me off. but I guess that's how it was in the original.

 

[WheelOfFish]

@Shadic: 1. Movesets are something I was hoping I could get some input on. Bringing back the original cast's classic moveset would be cool but I don't know if it's the most practical thing. We'll see. Ignore the fact that Kirby would still have the character's original neutral-b.

As a Link main, would you prefer to have arrows or boomerang? I'm thinking Ness should have PK fire, but I want input like I said.

Mario's down-b PROBABLY isn't coming back since it makes helps separate him from Luigi, but don't completely count it out yet. Moves that got completely changed are more than likely going to stay as is, though.

Characters like DDD, would have a REALLY lame neutral-b (aside from killing Ike it doesn't have much use, hahah) might end up getting their side-b's instead. Waddle Dee throw in this case.

I think for Olimar, Pikmin pluck should be down-b, and he should get Pikmin throw for side-b. No whistle. Though, once again, I need advice.

[/sporadic thoughts]

2. Custom levels = hopefully yes. I was hoping to bring back some N64 stages... the community stage pack has great ones that we might count as legal after testing with the new physics.

3. We'll figure something out. Snake's up smash might go the distance that it would being partially charged. I think I'll start typing up for basic character movesets, and changes can be suggested as we go.

4. I dunno. I thought l-canceling would be convenient? Hahahah, any type of canceling works though. As long as there is some.

@Sage: Yeah, well, smash attacks were used really sparingly in SSB64 because of the massive start-up and cool-down time. They might get a little more utility in Brawl 64 though. Z-canceling and s-canceling means aerial lag-canceling.

Edit: lol, I typed @ SS, meaning Sage and it got censored. XD

I'm going to start typing up character movesets.

 

[BG3]

How about working textures to emulate the characters in SSB64? Such as OoT Link and SM64 Mario hacks to represent the characters in SSB64? You can find those textures at ESH.

Also, I was thinking more along the lines of ONLY the 12 original characters allowed in the game with the only available stages being the stages in Smash 64, but Brawl styled. IDK, that's just what I would think a natural Brawl 64 would be.

 

[WheelOfFish]

That would definitely make character balance easy XD I actually thought about making it with the original 12 characters only, but I want this to be a sequel to SSB64, not a remake.

 

[kr3wman]

Don't forget to make the stage's boundaries super huge to make up for the lack of DI.

Grabbing out of failed techs

Can't fastfall during aerials

stuff like that.

 

[WheelOfFish]

Will add those to the front post

 

[GenoGar]

Holy crap we're going to get grabs that kill again. Pikachu will replace MK in tiers.

-

I can't wait to see Links aerial Up B.

And Mario Bros fire balls traveling 5 miles.

And a quicker Falcon Punch.

And... True spike, instant, Z-Cancelling d-airs on Falcon, Samus, DK, Kirby, and Ness...

-

What's funny is that Marth loses his Dancing Blade and Falco loses his Phantasm.

 

[Shadic]

I can't wait to see Links aerial Up B.

No. The only thing from that that's staying is the collision, which was awesome. Brawl+ distance pl0x.

You could mix up the B moves for clone characters as well. Falcon would get his punch, and give Ganondorf his SideB? Little tweaks like that would be nice.

 

[kupo15]

That would definitely make character balance easy XD I actually thought about making it with the original 12 characters only, but I want this to be a sequel to SSB64, not a remake.

If you don't want a remake, then only add ddd, pit and bowser. I believe those are the only brawl characters that were supposed to be in 64. Mew2 obviously doesn't count.

All spikes are like 1 frame start up
Do Z canceling, not l canceling
Remove crawling
Increase friction (there was rarely any sliding)
Increase shield stun
Give Yoshi a JC shield
Make Fox's shine always knock down (I think it was like that)
Obviously Over power projectiles
Remove reverse grabbing
Remove all teching except ground
Generally increase air control
Edge canceled aerials
Remove gliding

 

[Xebenkeck]

olimar with no side B, yes my prayers have been answered

Also ness and yoshi should get DJC back, and there are no air-dodges or spot-dodges.

 

[WheelOfFish]

Well, my goal is to have Brawl emulate SSB64... which hopefully means to have all of Brawl's characters as they would have been if they were included in SSB64.

Will add everything to the OP when I wake up.

 

[GenoGar]

Will we have to learn shield breaker strings...?

I'm curious about what's going to be done with Mario's D-Air and Down B.

 

[mofo_]

if someone here had usbgecko, recreating the stages would be very easy! i remember OddManOut forums used to have great smash 64 recreations with length and width changes to blocks....idk about the community pack cuz i think thats just using overlap + infinite blocks

 

[hotdogturtle]

Character balance will come

But I thought you wanted Smash 64?

 

[WheelOfFish]

But I thought you wanted Smash 64?

Character balance was pretty good in SSB64 as compared to Melee or Brawl.

if someone here had usbgecko, recreating the stages would be very easy! i remember OddManOut forums used to have great smash 64 recreations with length and width changes to blocks....idk about the community pack cuz i think thats just using overlap + infinite blocks

I don't have USBGecko, but if someone does and wants to recreate some stages...

 

[Roy-G-Biv]

Character balance was pretty good in SSB64 as compared to Melee or Brawl.



I don't have USBGecko, but if someone does and wants to recreate some stages...

Nope.
Balance was screwed last time I remember.

Pika and Kirby was top tier.
And Link stood no chance against them.
Cuz he was the lowest tier.

 

[WheelOfFish]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PcjJAlS8lLk

I never said balance was perfect. But even Link and Samus weren't HORRIBLE in N64 (ie: Kirby in Melee, or Captain Falcon in Brawl). They just weren't very good.

More importantly, this project is to emulate N64's physics, not it's character balance.

 

[VietGeek]

The brokeness of the game engine in of itself may have eluded the fact that some characters had some major shortcomings in design. =V

Err, I mean...

EVERYTHING WORKS!

 

[cookieM0Nster]

Will this use PSA to also change charactes' moves around, and recreate certain moves? We could have effective balance by using PSA as well.

 

[timothyung]

In 64, almost everything can lead to a one-hit KO combo... so the tier mainly depends on how well the characters can get the first hit, and their recovery

 

[cookieM0Nster]

In 64, almost everything can lead to a one-hit KO combo... so the tier mainly depends on how well the characters can get the first hit, and their recovery

...and that is why characters like Pikachu will have to be nerfed, in order to not be incredibly good.

 

[WheelOfFish]

Will this use PSA to also change charactes' moves around, and recreate certain moves? We could have effective balance by using PSA as well.

Yeah, probably. I think PSA would be the most effective way to do it.

And remember that this project is mostly for fun, and balance will come, but I want to get the physics, mechanics, ect., down first.

 

[cookieM0Nster]

Yeah, probably. I think PSA would be the most effective way to do it.

And remember that this project is mostly for fun, and balance will come, but I want to get the physics, mechanics, ect., down first.

Alright, then i can hlp you out with coding some of the characters.
Oh, and that makes sense, just do the same thing that B+ did.

 

[twiblets]

djc for ness is essential to his playstyle. also massive shield stun to keep the emphasis on offense rather than defense. also, you should only be able to grab a ledge when facing it. is there a code for that?
oh and by the way dont forget us PAL users

 

[WheelOfFish]

Sounds great!

I'm currently working on typing up my ideas for character movesets. Expect a really long post within a day or so... XD If anyone has any suggestions/concerns for movesets, let me know.

 

[BurningCrusader777]

3 year hitstun get!

I can't wait for this, personally. Should be a really interesting hack.

 

[BG3]

Good luck with the project.

Are you sure that you're not interested in a remake? Because having a remake of SSB64 with the stages, items, etc. that appeared in that game ONLY would be amazing. Seriously, imagine doing everything you could do in SSB64 but with better graphics, sound, etc.

Edit: Also, I think that you may have forgotten to put "No dodging or aerial dodging". Just plain SDI, like the good old days, LMAO.

 

[Shadic]

Or item catching, or the ability to pick up an item while doing anything other than standing still.

 

[tsunami70875]

sounds interesting
if i have time, i'll pitch in and help with the PSA coding as well
are you going to take out air dodges as well?

 

[Kink-Link5]

Olimar compromise: Down B is pikmin pluck. The "failed pluck" (when used in the air or when he already has 6 pikmin) is replaced with whistle. Standard B is Pikmin Throw. Up B is


wait.


Tethers wat.

 

[Xebenkeck]

Also no up or down throws, and no pummeling.

 

[Roy-G-Biv]

Oh.
And I wish they kept the AWWWW sound when you were about to die, but you made it back alive.

 

[Rudra]

I'm going to be watching this thread. It definately sounds interesting!

Oh.
And I wish they kept the AWWWW sound when you were about to die, but you made it back alive.

This. 64's Crowd was really good. If it ever becomes possible to replace sound effects with others, I hope we could bring the crowd back at least.

 

[WheelOfFish]

Olimar compromise: Down B is pikmin pluck. The "failed pluck" (when used in the air or when he already has 6 pikmin) is replaced with whistle. Standard B is Pikmin Throw. Up B is


wait.


Tethers wat.

Olimar is losing a special like everyone else, and I think it should be whistle. Sorry :B

Tether's are probably staying for up-b's, probably not for Shiek's side-b, and definitely not for tether grabs.

I haven't updated the first post since last night. Air dodges are going, and thanks for volunteering to help with coding, Tsunami. I'll keep you posted. I have to go run some errands though.

 

[timothyung]

You don't have to remove/switch side Bs and remove pummels/up/down throws, because they are good additions, and helps offensive play. This is Brawl 64, after all. Also, ADs and sidesteps... lol

You should keep the additions in Brawl, but put back what are changed/removed from Brawl

 

[WheelOfFish]

I'll consider it... though I am still interested in making Brawl64 play like SSB64. I might make a community poll tonight to ask about some of the changes. And not just the ones you mentioned; also ones regarding whether Brawl64 should be a SSB64 remake or sequel.

 

[Slashy]

Crowd responds to everything