c stick smash or attack?

[zFrost]

basically attack allows for quick easy djc nairs but is less lenient on being able to do djc fair, thoughts on which is better/easier/which do u use?, i've been using attack for a while now and it's difficult to pull off djc fair consistently while fading back while it's super easy to do with it set to smash, might just need to work on it but i'd like to hear ur thoughts.

 

[Scraket]

basically attack allows for quick easy djc nairs but is less lenient on being able to do djc fair, thoughts on which is better/easier/which do u use?, i've been using attack for a while now and it's difficult to pull off djc fair consistently while fading back while it's super easy to do with it set to smash, might just need to work on it but i'd like to hear ur thoughts.

I dont have any problems with doing Djc nairs using Y jump to A. Also I believe that the benefits of being able to consistently fade back Djc fair far outweigh whatever benefits there are of using C stick Attack djc nairs. Fade back djc fairs are amazing.
C stick smash imo

 

[Xcite]

Been using C-Stick Attack for a while now and yeah it's hard at the beginning hitting the specific angles and what not, but you most definitely can do fade back DJC Fairs. Just takes time and practice to adjust. And you'll also have to get used to jump canceling up smashes because hitting C-stick up while dashing will give you a dash attack.

 

[D e l t a]

I've always kept C stick to smash attacks. Never really got into C attacks. I have little use for DJC Nair. Typically when I use Lucas' nair, I want most / all the hits to come out (shield pressure, combos, etc). When DJC'd, the multi-hits of Nair will sometimes go thru the opponent and the final hits that give knockback will miss.

How do you even implement C stick for attacks? Never made sense to me.

 

[20PK]

I find DJC Nair really useful OoS. I input it with , with L and Y set to jump. I also do DJC PKFs like this, except with instead, and have tap jump + for all other DJCs.

 

[Xcite]

It's got a couple of cool uses. Main thing I use it for is as a recapture move akin to wolf's nair. For example: Aerial mag--> DJC Nair --> ground mag. The opponent has to be on the ground or relatively close to it. The whole point is to avoid the strong hitbox of nair. It's hard to actually get the true combo with it, but it'll mostly be a frame trap or just too quick for someone to react to so its basically a guaranteed string.

For reference, here's a practical application:
https://gfycat.com/DelayedSeparateHadrosaurus#

Cstick attack also has some other neat features such as being able to jab out of crouch and also allows for some really easy DJ wave lands.

 

[ilysm]

Interestingly enough, I had this same question a while back, except for Ness. I wanted to be able to djc nair out of shield or a dash for quick pressure (or do flashy combos like djc fair djc nair djc fair again). I tried using C-Stick for attack but never really got the hang of it. Instead I just ground out this button combo—

-> -> +

—basically doing it very quickly in order to let the Control Stick return to neutral before I hit A. Not gonna lie, it was an exercise in teeth-gnashing frustration for the first few practice sessions. But nowadays I can to it pretty much every time, and I'm glad I learned. Fade-back fairs are a really valuable ability for Lucas to apply safe pressure. Also, I think the benefit of using tap jump for the second jump is that you have that small degree of aerial control when you can tap up, up-left, or up-right in order to do fadeing back/advancing djc nairs. It's really reassuring to have that level of control over the spacing.

@ Xcite I didn't know DJC nair could be used like that! I'd always wondered about the practical applications of avoiding the strong hitbox, but I'd never really bothered to try it out. I'm gonna need to give that a shot!

 

[zFrost]

yoooo xcite i saw ur lucas combo vid thing on yt with the nanobii songs, rly loved the mag to Ariel mag to nair thing, also the songs <3

guess i'll have to grind working on precision fairs with attack, not gonna limit myself

 

[D e l t a]

I guess some people like the flashy things. I usually do guaranteed damage like magnet -> Bair for a quick 20% then go for Dair / Nair or grab (if I notice the weird jab reset that happens after mag->Bair at very low %).

As for the not strong hit of Nair, it's great to combo into grab, Dtilt, or an immediate Nair following the first.

I guess if you don't have as flexible / fast reactive fingers I could see why some people like C attack. I personally never had a problem with double tapping the jump button.

 

[zFrost]

double tapping and c sticking for nair don't rly work the same as c stick allows for more Ariel control, bair usually doesn't usually combo into anything

 

[D e l t a]

You should see the combos I get off Bair between 0-60%. I've even found that if DI'd away (typical combo DI), it sets up for a DACUS lol. Lucas has too many DI traps for DACUS and I love it

 

[zFrost]

dacus is like literally the only thing that it can combo into and it's risky

 

[D e l t a]

Bair -> any aerial under 30%, Fair / Nair / Mag->aerial 20-50%, Dacus between 40-80% depending on DI and if you have OU charge.

When they're getting knocked back from a hit and still in hitstun, they either attempt to jump away or find a safe landing. If you whiff, there's little they can do to punish as there's a small window where you're vulnerable after whiffed DACUS.

 

[zFrost]

or i could do what xcite did and keep a combo going for much longer with less risk of dropping the combo

 

[D e l t a]

To each their own. Some people prefer to be flashy and press lots of buttons. Others like hitting 2-3 button inputs and getting the same results. That's the main reason most of us chose to play Lucas, for all the custom combos / controls and open possibilities.

For argument's sake, all those turnaround magnets and DJC Nairs can be messed up as seen at the end of the gif. Still cool looking and requires a good amount of tech skill. I've actually never dropped a mag -> Bair combo starter, but maybe that's just me ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

[Xcite]

or i could do what xcite did and keep a combo going for much longer with less risk of dropping the combo

Woah man my bad, that wasn't me in the video or combo vid. I only posted that link for demonstration purposes. The guy you're looking for is PKJoey. He usually does some interesting stuff.
But you get the idea.

And in regards to what you were saying Delta, the great thing about going for the DJC Nair is that it essentially resets combos and allows for further extension. So if you decided to go for the magnet Bair follow up (assuming that the magnet was done in the air), you can instead opt for DJC Nair into grounded magnet into bair. It tacks on around 14-16% so your usual 23% combo has now been bumped up to almost 40%. It's a pretty efficient method and is basically guaranteed at all percents as long as your opponent is on the ground or near it.

 

[D e l t a]

Yeah I mean it's definitely situational. That's the tricky thing about anything and everything Lucas really.

 

[zFrost]

if u only wanna hit a few buttons lucas wouldn't seem all that fun imo lol

 

[Scraket]

So whats wrong with using Y - A for djc nairs for you guys? Seems to work fine for me.

 

[Xcite]

So whats wrong with using Y - A for djc nairs for you guys? Seems to work fine for me.

Nothing's wrong with it. Only differences between Y-A is and C-stick Attack is that the C-stick will be giving you slightly more control of lucas when he uses Nair for reasons mentioned above by another post. Oh and I guess you'll probably won't be hitting the extremely low Nairs like the ones demonstrated in Badge's latest Lucas TAS. Whether you deem those sort of Nairs to be practical are up to you. I personally like using those nairs as they chain into each other pretty well, or any other move for that matter. (Or for the more advanced users who are into ledge canceling their moves, a close to the ground DJC nair has a decently large window that allows lucas to slip off a ledge and immediately continue comboing.)

So to sum it up, it's not anything necessary but there are pretty cool applications that can be explored. Not to mention all the other quirks you get for using C-Stick Attack.

 

[TakaiSendo]

You can SDI out of the magnet DJC Nair after the second iteration. It also only really works fast fallers in the low-mid percents.

 

[Xcite]

You can SDI out of the magnet DJC Nair after the second iteration. It also only really works fast fallers in the low-mid percents.

Can you clarify what you mean by it doesn't work after the second iteration?

 

[zFrost]

just bcuz u can sdi out doesn't mean people will

 

[D e l t a]

Just because Lucas' combo game & pressure shouldn't work in theory, doesn't mean it never does lol

 

[TakaiSendo]

I know. Especially when it's something not a lot of people see. What I mean is you can SDI out of the combo. Meaning put yourself outside of the hitbox of the magnet.

 

[Xcite]

Yeah that is a possibility. Although it's a pretty hard DI mixup to react too, especially since Lucas has a lot of other options he could choose from instead. I wouldn't really think it's humanly possible to react to that. It would have to be some sort of godlike read I guess.

 

[D e l t a]

So in somewhat related news, I SDI'd out of magnet last week mainly on reaction lmfao. I guess anything is possible.

 

[TakaiSendo]

Yup. DI the magnet away and then SDI even further in the same direction if the nair hits.