Chaining F-air

[ExiaPilotDedede]

I was playing online the other day, and there was a dedede who was able to use forward air multiple times in a row without the ending lag that causes d3 to fall too far to land a second a f-air.

I wish I had grabbed a video of it, but the best way I can describe it is like ness's forward air juggle where it just pushes you to the side and slightly up. I've been trying to replicate it, but I just can't get dedede to maintain altitude after the first f-air to land a second one.

Does anyone have any idea how to do this technique with dedede?

 

[Soul Train]

This might be better suited to the Q&A thread of the boards, but I'll answer anyways.

Due to its 14 frame startup and unimpressive knockback, Fair is difficult to "chain" with. Unless the opponent is above ~40%, they can usually attack you before you can Fair again. That said, it's not a move you can "combo" with as much like Ness's Fair - it's more something you can use as a punish against greedy opponents.

See the video below, where I chain Fair, Nair, then another Fair. Marth easily could've airdodged out, but he was scared of falling. Often situations like that (edgeguarding) will lead to multiple fairs. Just knowing the spacing of hitbox and how far above/in front of/below you it hits, and you'll get the hang of it.

https://youtu.be/ShFyMsS7UJw?t=9m26s

 

[ExiaPilotDedede]

This might be better suited to the Q&A thread of the boards, but I'll answer anyways.

Sorry 'bout that.

Due to its 14 frame startup and unimpressive knockback, Fair is difficult to "chain" with. Unless the opponent is above ~40%, they can usually attack you before you can Fair again. That said, it's not a move you can "combo" with as much like Ness's Fair - it's more something you can use as a punish against greedy opponents.

The weird thing is that someone did chain it on me, that's what I'm saying. They somehow jumped during the frames where dedede is doing the front flip after the side hitbox disappears. Usually, on the receiving end of dedede's f-air, you can just air jump and dedede will have fallen far enough during the ending lag that it's difficult for him to follow up with an attack, but I couldn't even get a jump in since the second attack came before I could recover from hitstun.

From my time playing dedede, this should be impossible which is why I'm so confused on how he did it.

 

[Soul Train]

D3's Fair has 13 frames of startup, 15 ending frames, and 30 (!!) frames of landing lag. So your friend definitely didn't "chain" anything from a ground landing. My ideas: 1. He did a different move (Bair) that autocancels, 2. You unintentionally hit a button too soon and missed the airdodge.

 

[ExiaPilotDedede]

D3's Fair has 13 frames of startup, 15 ending frames, and 30 (!!) frames of landing lag. So your friend definitely didn't "chain" anything from a ground landing. My ideas: 1. He did a different move (Bair) that autocancels, 2. You unintentionally hit a button too soon and missed the airdodge.

Correct me if I'm wrong, because I'm not super up on the ssb lingo, but auto canceling is to prevent landing lag right? This happened completely off stage. He chained three f-airs (I don't think they were b-airs, but I could be wrong about this) and pushed me off screen.

Also I didn't accidently miss my input 3 or 4 times in a match in addition to the couple of times that my teammate didn't miss his input since the tech was used on him as well.

Again, I really wish I had grabbed a video of it, but I figured it wouldn't be as hard to replicate as it is. I'll have to try it with b-airs though since he may have managed to slip a turnaround jump in.

 

[ExiaPilotDedede]

So, I just checked it out, and b-air falls just as fast (if not faster) than f-air.

 

[Soul Train]

Auto-cancelling can only occur on the ground. That's how it works; when your character lands on the ground on specific frames of moves, you will instantly be able to act upon landing.

So, I just checked it out, and b-air falls just as fast (if not faster) than f-air.

Please clarify? Bair doesn't "fall" faster, D3's fall rate is the same during all moves. Bair does come out on frame 17, so it's a bit slower than Fair.

In any case, there is no cancelling of any of D3's aerials while still midair. Are you sure you're playing Smash 4? Because in PM/Brawl D3 can much easier chain his (amazing and very different) Bair.

 

[ExiaPilotDedede]

Please clarify? Bair doesn't "fall" faster, D3's fall rate is the same during all moves. Bair does come out on frame 17, so it's a bit slower than Fair..

I mean that by the time b-air has finished all frames, d3 will have fallen roughly the same distance as if f-air was used.

In any case, there is no cancelling of any of D3's aerials while still midair. Are you sure you're playing Smash 4? Because in PM/Brawl D3 can much easier chain his (amazing and very different) Bair.

100% sure I'm on ssb4, and that's what I thought about in air canceling, which is why I'm so confused on how he pulled it off. The closest I've gotten in training mode is to land the f-air with the target sort of in between dedede's body and the head of the hammer. It sour spots and there is almost no knock back, but I haven't been able to land more than one.

 

[dreamastermind]

You mean, a wall of pain? Where someone just keeps hitting you off the screen? I kind of do that to villager in the first 20 seconds of this video...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-QIdSpIW4pA

Is that what you mean?

 

[ExiaPilotDedede]

You mean, a wall of pain? Where someone just keeps hitting you off the screen? I kind of do that to villager in the first 20 seconds of this video...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-QIdSpIW4pA
Is that what you mean?

That is what I mean, but they could consistently land 3 fairs in a row. I guess it's just down to practice and getting the right conditions with f-air+jump->f-air+jump->fair+jump. Watching your video at 1/4 speed, it looks like the fair needs to be initiated when you are actually above the other player, which is what I think I've been getting wrong:

Thanks man! it looks like I just have to manage to sneak a jump in there and get the proper spacing for all the hits (practice, practice, practice!). The guy we were playing landed 3 hits on my partner who was ness and my partner couldn't recover, which is pretty impressive to pull off on a ness. With d3's fantastic recovery, this might work as an early game gimp.