Charizard Moveset Speculation/Analysis

[The Real Gamer]

This thread will be dedicated to analyzing our favorite reptilian's currently known moves as well as suggesting moves that we would like to see, including custom moves. Since we still have yet to see any official gameplay footage of Zard in action (other than his reveal trailer) most of the discussion will likely revolve around speculation as opposed to concrete analysis for now.

In the meantime I'll work on keeping the OP updated with everything that has been confirmed thus far. Feel free to contribute if I'm missing anything! Also keep in mind moves are subject to change since we have yet to get our hands on the final build.

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Known Moves​

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Standard Attack/Jab Combo

Spoiler

Tilts

Forward Tilt or

Spoiler

Smash Attacks

Forward Smash or

Spoiler

Aerials

Neutral Air (while midair)

Spoiler

Forward Air or (while facing forward + midair)

Spoiler

Back Air or (while facing backwards + midair)

Spoiler

Special Attacks

Neutral Special ~ FLAMETHROWER ~

Spoiler

Side Special ~ FLARE BLITZ ~ or

Spoiler

Down Special ~ ROCK SMASH ~

Spoiler

*no pic available yet*

Grabs or......

Back Throw or (after a successful grab + in the opposite direction you're facing)

Spoiler

Final Smash ~ MEGA CHARIZARD X ~ (after obtaining a Smashball)

Spoiler

Taunts

Up Taunt (up button)

Spoiler

Down Taunt (down button)

Spoiler

 

[Moon Monkey]

His F+Air seems like it can be an almost Melee/Brawl Marth like approach with options to do multiple swings before hitting the ground. Though heavy ending lag seems to be a thing for many characters in the demo so I'm sure Charizard will suffer from this as well.

Flare Blitz looks like it will potentially be Charizard's deadliest move for K.Os. If he's gonna be taking recoil on connect. Though It does seem like it can be punished hard ONLY if when shielded and Charizard will ricochet and keel over like he does in the trailer:
(2:01 to 2:04)

Spoiler

I'm curious to see if Rock Smash will receive any changes. I liked it how it was in Brawl, but I wonder since it's now a Down B if the animation and hitboxes will be different. Like possibly him using Rock Smash towards the screen and rock shards disperse on both sides of him???

Other than that Charizard's moveset seems for the most part untouched.

 

[Oatmeal.]

Are you sure that's his forward tilt? Looks more like his down tilt to me.

But other than that, looks good.

And just to bring it up....

It's Optimistic Charizard, you bet'cha!

....but what move could this possibly be?

 

[~ Gheb ~]

The new forward air somewhat resembles Bowser's old fair ... which isn't amazing but definitely an improvement over his Brawl incarnation of fair. Unless it has a lot of lag I bet we're going to see the move used quite a lot, perhaps as a bread and butter aerial. The range and the angle seem pretty reasonable in that image, although it doesn't look disjointed.

From the image in the OP, I can't tell wether bair has changed or not. I'd hope so but I don't so. It look like some sort of aerial backhand slap which is kind of a letdown, given what could have been possible for a monstrosity like Charizard. Nothing would have pleased me more than a mewtwo-esque bair with a disjointed hitbox at its tip! Unless they have improved the frame data of the move or its range I don't think it'll see a lot of use. Unless Charizard has a fair like Ganondorf, that is.

Since Smash 4 seems to have some combo potential according to various sources, a good uair is something to hope for. If Charizard's upair doesn't see some major buffs from Brawl then any potential for a decent aerial game will be at a minimum tbh. Again, Mewtwo's uair could have easily been used for charizard. Furthermore, I wish they'd improve nair a bit and also decrease the jump start-up lag for Charizard to improve his OoS options. Grab alone just doesn't cut it, especially against unpredictable approaches.

As far as his aerials are concerned, it looks untouched with the exception of fair. That's pretty disappointing and unless they have buffed Charizards overall attributes [speed and mobility mainly] I feel like his aerial game is not going to be something to bank on, though multiple jumps may be a good thing to have given the new airdodge mechanics.

Could this be Charizard's Dash Attack? It looks like his old one:

[collapse="Dash Attack?"]

[/collapse]

 

[The Real Gamer]

Are you sure that's his forward tilt? Looks more like his down tilt to me.

Thanks to the weird angle there's no way to know for sure, but I thought it resembled his F-tilt more since he's not as low to the ground.

The Miiverse fan site page also has it listed as his F-tilt for what it's worth.

And just to bring it up....
View attachment 17489
It's Optimistic Charizard, you bet'cha!

....but what move could this possibly be?

If I had to take a wild guess I'd say it's some sort of pose before he transforms into Mega Zard X.

Could this be Charizard's Dash Attack? It looks like his old one:

[collapse="Dash Attack?"]

[/collapse]

I'm actually pretty sure that's the very end of his Flare Blitz animation due to the smoke, flames, and trajectory of Sonic.

 

[monkokaio]

Assuming gliding is completely gone, do you fellas think Flare Blitz will be like Pikachu's skull bash? In that it's very strong, but has no use in a match since it's too slow and will only be used for recovery? I certainly hope not.

 

[CamZilla94]

This thread will be dedicated to analyzing our favorite reptilian's currently known moves as well as suggesting moves that we would like to see, including custom moves. Since we still have yet to see any official gameplay footage of Zard in action (other than his reveal trailer) most of the discussion will likely revolve around speculation as opposed to concrete analysis for now.

In the meantime I'll work on keeping the OP updated with everything that has been confirmed thus far. Feel free to contribute if I'm missing anything! Also keep in mind moves are subject to change since we have yet to get our hands on the final build.

Off topic but where did you find your avatar of Charizard X?

 

[AustarusIV]

Literally all of the pictures you have are broken, @ The Real Gamer . They need to be replaced.

Assuming gliding is completely gone, do you fellas think Flare Blitz will be like Pikachu's skull bash? In that it's very strong, but has no use in a match since it's too slow and will only be used for recovery? I certainly hope not.

Considering that gliding is all but confirmed to be gone at this point now that Meta Knight doesn't have it, I presume that Flare Blitz could possibly be another recovery move for him.

 

[LightningVance]

I'm seriously hoping that Rock Smash's rock is at least... partially updated to not look like the worst modeled thing in the game

 

[roymustang1990-]

So,from the leaked footage of other characters,Correct me if I'm wrong but It seems like charizard retains his jab,bair and his f smash is faster.

 

[The Real Gamer]

Sorry for the disappearing act everyone. Due to other priorities coming up I haven't had the time to keep u with Smash as much as I used to.

Is there anyone interested in taking over the thread?

 

[ImaClubYou]

Okay. I'm gonna sum up as much as I can from memory here.

Jabs: Look good, first hit comes out quick, but it's like most peoples jabs so whatever.

Ftilt: Weird inbetween sort of lag going on here. Not sure what it's for honestly.

UpTilt: Very good. It actually gets opponents next to you this time. The animation is changed to where his entire wing is used to attack. From visual appearance it looks like it has more vertical range.

Dtilt: Don't remember what it is but I think it's still the tail.

Dash Attack: It can be followed up from Forward or Down Throw depending on DI. Just don't approach with it.

Forward Smash: Very powerful and very fast though it has noticeable end lag. It's killing at 70 if it lands though.

Up Smash: Incredible reach. Great OoS option.

Down Smash: Have not seen it land yet, but it is very slow in both start and end frames. It is still the same down smash if you're wondering.

Aerials: ALL of Charizards aerials have noticeable landing lag.

Nair: Same as Brawl. It looks like it has even smaller range however.

Fair: Cool move. It comes out quick and it's possible to combo into itself. Kill at 130%

Bair: Haven't seen it used to kill but it seems powerful. Has a sweetspot which is the fire end. Charizard actually waves his tail instead of swings it back this time.

Dair: Still a meteor. Having a meteor is a plus for anyone in this game so good for you Charizard! It comes out decently fast.

Up Air: New animation though same purpose. He swings his head kind of like Bowser. Could potentially juggle at 0% on Battlefield.

Grabs: Charizards grab game may be much more important for him since he lacks a decent approach option.

Forward/Back Throws: Getting opponents off the stage.

Down throw: Pops them up and in front of Charizard. Can follow up with an aerial or a Dash Attack.

Up Throw: Seismic Toss. Looks powerful, but it only does 8% clean. Not sure what it's for other than for looks.

Potentially, Charizards specials may be what makes him good.

Flamethrower: Comes out really fast and has good range. About 75% of Bowsers. You get pushed back when you use it for some reason.

Fly/UpB: Multi hitting. It no longer has that awkward moment of slo mo Brawl had. It is a kill move but haven't seen Charizard used much yet.

Rock Smash: Haven't seen this hit at all besides a single pebble.

Flare Blitz: Might be Charizards bread and butter tech chase option and kill option. It comes out relatively fast, does a lot of damage, and a lot of knock back. It can cover all tech chase options barring get up attack. It can also be used as a great recovery. You can crash into the side of a stage and still UpB into the ledge. And on its own it covers over half of FD.

Charizard looks like a very weird character to play as this time around. I can compare him to Melee Falcon, where you have to play smart, but at the same time reckless to get anywhere.

 

[AustarusIV]

Charizard looks like a very weird character to play as this time around. I can compare him to Melee Falcon, where you have to play smart, but at the same time reckless to get anywhere.

That sounds...interesting. was one of my mains back in that game, but I've been playing as PM!Charizard for so long that it's weird to even think of him like that.

Apart from the nerfed Nair, everything seems decent for him so far, though I have to try him out to get an honest verdict. I figured that Flare Blitz would be one of his best moves.

 

[Oatmeal.]

Looks like Optimistic Charizard is the start of Flare Blitz. Not important, but nice to know. @ Rocket Raccoon

 

[Rocket Raccoon]

Looks like Optimistic Charizard is the start of Flare Blitz. Not important, but nice to know. @ Rocket Raccoon

Now the competitive community is forced to use Optimistic Charizard.

Mwahahahahaha!

 

[roymustang1990-]

Looks like Optimistic Charizard is the start of Flare Blitz. Not important, but nice to know. @ Rocket Raccoon

So,flare blitz eats through projectiles? Nice

 

[Pazzo.]

Charazard looks like a good, balanced heavyweight.. I especially like the look of Flare Blitz.

 

[Charhazzard]

Flare blitz is like heaven for charizard

 

[Valzy]

Here's what I've got for damage

Normal Jab: 3% followed by 4% followed by 5%
Dash Attack: 11%
Ledge Attack: 8%
Forward Tilt: 7%, 10% sweetspotted
Down Tilt: 10%
Up Tilt: 8%
Forward Throw: 10%
Down Throw: 6 hits of 1%
Up Throw: 6% followed by 2%
Back Throw: 10%
Grab Attack: 2%
Nuetral Special: 1%, 2% sweetspotted
Forward Special: 19%
Up Special: 6 hits: 5%, 2%, 2%, 2%, 2%, 4%
Down Special (large rock): 14%
Down Special (Small Rocks): 3%
Forward Air: 11% 12% sweetspotted
Nuetral Air: 7%, 10% sweetpotted
Down Air: 8%, 14% sweetspotted
Up Air: 13%
Back Air: 13%, 10% sourspotted, 15% sweetspotted
Forward Smash (Uncharged): 14%, 17% sweetspotted
Forward Smash (Fully Charged): 19%, 23% sweetspotted
Down Smash (Uncharged): 16.67%
Down Smash (Fully Charged): 22.33%
Up Smash (Uncharged): 5% followed by 11%
Up Smash (Fully Charged): 7% followed by 15.33%

Custom Moves (Incomplete):
Fire Fang: 2% followed by 8%
Fireball Cannon: 2%, 3% sweetspotted, minimum of 3 hits
Rising Cyclone: 8 hits: 4%, 2%, 2%, 2%, 2%, 2%, 2%, 6%
Sinking Skull: 10%
Rock Hurl (Large Rock): 8%
Rock Hurl (Small Rocks): 2%

 

[-LzR-]

Thank you Valzy. That's really useful.

 

[-LzR-]

Bump. All the pics in OP are broken.

On topic:
I rarely use Dtilt. Easily our worst move (not saying it's bad) as it's main use seems to be a very situational spacing between Ftilt and Jab that barely happens and even then the move is underwhelming. I wouldn't even care if the move didn't exist. It was way better in Brawl.

 

[ZTD | TECHnology]

I agree its one of our worst moves but I don't agree its our worst period. Its situational but its a solid edgeguarding setup tool. I'd rather use this for spacing in some situations against say....Little Mac than F-Tilt. I agree its uses are limited but far from useless imo. Sets up for tech chases also.

 

[Remzi]

I disagree. I think it might be our best poke on the ground. Zard extends significantly to use it, and then pulls back afterward, making it safe on block in a lot of situations. Using it out of skid is a great tech chase that leaves you in position to cover multiple options if you miss (as opposed to dash attack, where if you misread the roll, you lose your advantage. It's also highly useful offstage.

Do we have frame data on dtilt vs ftilt?

 

[Ryusuta]

Lately I've seriously been on the fence when it comes to Charizard's side B options. Mostly the two alts, because while I think Flare Blitz is great, the accidental suicide potential is just too real for me. I think Dragon Rush is a really nice move, is much safer and still does fairly respectable damage, while Blast Burn KOs at ABSURDLY low percents and can really destroy a bad recovery landing or a predictable roll.

Any thoughts on these, guys?

 

[The Real Gamer]

Locking this since a more comprehensive guide is currently in the works. Stay tuned!