Debunking the "Lagless" Great Gonzales Jr.

[Sinister Slush]

Ah ha ha ha ha ha ha ha! How'd that floor taste? -The Great Gonzales Jr. Leading the charge towards For Glory Scrubs
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This is just a fun little thread cause why not. Let's look at some of the moves that a lot of FG people or even just plain bad people say is broken about Yoshi.

Jab: TBA/Soon


Image/Gif: TBA/Soon


Up Smash: TBA/Soon


Image/Gif: TBA/Soon


Nair: "It's Fast and has no landing lag, BROKEN"
Aight it's pretty fast, frame 3 move I believe, let's look at it and other frame 3 moves.

Dr. Mario
Falco
Luigi
Mario
Mii Fighter
Villager
Pac-Man
Pikachu
Sheik
Yoshi

Now what about landing lag?

Dr. Mario 12
Falco 15
Luigi 14
Mario 10
Mii Fighter 10 for Default, 7 for Small Size
Villager 14
Pac-Man 12
Pikachu 25
Sheik 10
Yoshi 11

Wouldja look at that, Yoshi is pretty decent, but it has 1 frame more landing lag than Mario Mii Brawler and Sheik while Mii Brawler Small size is 7 whole frames. I do not have the duration of the nairs for everyone but here's a few.

Dr Mario/Mario 46
Luigi 32 (?)
Pac-Man 52 (?)
Sheik 50 (?)
Villager 27
Yoshi 44

So of the ones I could find, Villager's seems to be the quickest one. Yoshi's Nair is big from the first few frames, but the rest of the hitbox is so tiny it looks like this

I should also mention this move almost never kills. Pretty sure Luigi's does unless they nerfed it from brawl's (Haven't used Luigi in this game nor pay attention to luigi matches cause they bore me lol)


Image/Gif: TBA/Soon


Up B/Egg toss: TBA/Soon


Image/Gif: TBA/Soon



Dair: "Does a lot of damage and has no lag, almost breaks my shield too!"
Stuff TBA/Soon


Image/Gif: TBA/Soon


DownB: "Stupid move breaks my shield and really fast, can't punish!"
One quote for now. Shields have 50 health, Yoshi's DownB does 19% and an additional 10% shield damage. So for accuracy sake. Yoshi's DownB doesn't break shields, the opponent breaks the shield for not reacting to it by spotdodging or rolling.
Also Bowser's DownB does 24% and additional Shield damage too (not sure on number for it), but it breaks shields regardless if full health
Stuff TBA/Soon


Image/Gif: TBA/Soon




Gonna make some gifs for comparison sooner or later, for now it's gonna be really empty. If you have suggestions of anything else you guys can think of, help me out then to finish this silly project.

 

[Shadó Chimera / シャドーキメラ]

Brawler's nair has 10 frames of landing lag at default size and 7 frames of landing lag at smallest size.

 

[Nikes]

First of all, really good idea for a thread, secondly thumbs up to the TYYD reference.

Just gonna put this out here for the non-Yoshi mains who are struggling or the hatchling Yoshi's: it's possible to roll away from the 2nd hit of downB if they didn't get dragged up in the 1st hit while shielding, leaving Yoshi open for a free punish. It's not all that reliable, nor does it straight up break most fresh shields in the first place by itself.

As for Dair, it's crazy good when using it on someone on a platform above you, especially since you can move off of them at the end of the move if you know it won't break their shield or poke, but on grounded opponents it's a lot more risky because you're not as likely to shield break or poke them, and his Dair landing lag is highly punishable anyway. Sometimes it's probably better to just take the last hit so you don't suffer a shield break against Yoshi.


Good writeup so far Slush.

 

[YoHeKing]

Just putting this out there but down b is punishable out of shield up smash. Its not even close to being frame perfect too.

Also shieks duration shouldn't be that high.

Edit: also great thread. Surprised nobody has made this before.

 

[YoshiYoshi]

You should probably say something about Yoshi's broken priority, because it's common knowledge that Yoshi has broken priority.

...and that range...it's amazing how a character with no disjoints outranges everyone with minimal effort.

 

[Sinister Slush]

Priority doesn't exist and Yoshi's moves definitely aren't broken

Infact, there's nothing special with Yoshi's moves at all

Feel like this thread gonna be updated slowly mostly cause roommate in process of moving out so I actually can't get the gifs/stream it to make em as I promised since doing that kinda stuff requires a second person.
Tho maybe I can try just using 1/2 (hold L) to try it. I'll try thursday or friday and post my stream in the yoshi social if people can watch and ask me to try things, maybe even help out by adding my nnid and us going online to test stuph

 

[Nikes]

Isn't priority a common misconception in that it really just comes down to who's hitbox connected first? Like if one move had priority over the other the higher priority move would beat out the other move when connecting on the same frame, but I'm pretty sure in this instance they just clank. (Without taking armor, invincibility etc into account on either side)

Yoshi just outranges a lot of people because of his bigger sized body, and his habit of rearing back in some of his moves. (and often poor spacing on the opponents end)

 

[Shadó Chimera / シャドーキメラ]

Priority is how two hitboxes interact with each other. Usually when people say things like "It has more priority" or "a lot of priority" they're not actually talking about how two hitboxes interact with each other. Priority is an actual thing though.

 

[YoHeKing]

Yoshis moves are good. They cancel alot of things out for some really odd reason but when it comes to 2 attacks colliding its gonna be even most likely if there not disjoints. Yoshi has pretty good range though and is actually capable of hitting under the stage. But its just not worth it alot of times because his hurtbox actually expands before the moves hitbox comes out like fair. His head sticks out like 2-3 frames before the hitbox comes out. His aerials kinda have no hurt and the very tips but I think thats kinda normal anyways.

Keep in mind alot of yoshis moves actually can reach each side of a platform on BF.