DerfMidWest
Fresh ******
I feel like writing something, but not MUs or guides (I'll get back to those soon)
This is a thread on what I would do to fix some of the low tier characters and make them more viable. (The idea is to get them to a level around falcon or something, not some dumb PM **** where everyone is a spacey)
I really want to start with Kirby and Pichu, because I've been thinking about them a lot recently.
1. Pichu:
This one is pretty clear to me how to fix.
Minor changes:
Minor changes:
I absolutely hate the way the PMBR went about trying to fix this character. They had a cool idea, but they did it really wrong.
I think mewtwo is definitely a character who suffers from speed and range. It's pretty much all just minor fixes.
This idea of mewtwo is essentially a much faster, slightly stronger version of his melee self.
It significantly improves him, without breaking the hell out of him like pm did.
The idea is a mewtwo balanced around the mid-tier level.
Minor changes:
Mr.Gay is pretty interesting, because he's very close to being a good character, he just has some glaring weaknesses. Like mewtwo, it's mostly minor changes.
Again, I don't like the way that he was fixed in P:M, although there are definitely some good ideas there, I think it just changed the way he plays too much.
Minor changes:
This is a thread on what I would do to fix some of the low tier characters and make them more viable. (The idea is to get them to a level around falcon or something, not some dumb PM **** where everyone is a spacey)
I really want to start with Kirby and Pichu, because I've been thinking about them a lot recently.
1. Pichu:
This one is pretty clear to me how to fix.
Minor changes:
- Slightly increased run speed. A lot of Pichu's game revolves around tech-chasing and stuff, and he's alright at it, but he'd be pretty decent if he were just a little faster. In melee, his run speed is actually slower than pika's, it should be slightly faster though, to play on the smaller/weaker, but more agile idea.
- Lower cool down on the following: Dash attack, Dsmash, aerial SideB, dthrow, fthrow, downB
- Faster start up on the following: Thunder Jolt (neutral B), Agility (UpB)
- Removal of self-damage
- slightly increased damage from Uair
- Agility (UpB): Increased overall speed (including quicker startup). Agility in melee is used as a movement tool because of the 1 frame special landing lag, but do to the fact that it doesn't actually move that quickly, it's easy to punish.
I've often said that if you just made at least the first zip invincible, pichu would be a really good character, but I believe this would be toxic gameplay, so simply increasing the speed of the move basically solves this problem. - Jolt (neutral B): Auto-cancel upon landing (land cancel). Jolt, as it is, is a useful tool in certain situations. It severs well for edgeguards, and retreating with jolts onto a platform are pretty good, but these are only viable in some scenarios, because of the cool down of the move, it's relatively useless in neutral, as an approach, or for combos. By allowing the move to land cancel, you open a whole new door of options for pichu.
He would be able to do things like jolt->grab or fsmash (similar to falco's lasers), he would have more viable platform play, and he would have a decent option from the ledge against mid-ranged opponents.
- Dtilt: To further separate dtilt from ftilt, I think it would be incredibly useful to pichu to have the downward trajectory of dtilt exaggerated, serving as a semi-spike. This gives him another useful on-stage edgeguarding tool, and powerful gimp setup.
- Down-Air: This move needs to be redone. To further separate pichu from pika, and to give him some more options, I think it would be incredibly beneficial to make this move a weak meteor, similar to the properties of mario's fair. This opens new combo options, helps solve (but doesn't completely remove) pichu's weakness to crouch canceling, and improves pichu's edgeguarding (which would make up for his lack of a uair semi-spike). The cooldown of pichu's dair and the weak meteor aspect would prevent pichu from being able to do anymore than roughly two (maybe three) dairs without losing the ability recover, himself, so this would act as a "check" to prevent his offstage edgeguarding from becoming too good, while still making it borderline ridiculous, again playing on the glass-canon idea.
Minor changes:
- Increased run speed. Similar to pichu, kirby gets a lot out of his dthrow tech-chase, but as he exists in melee, one of the biggest problems with this is that he runs just a little too slow. He needs to run just a little faster than he currently does.
- reduced cooldown on dair, dsmash, dthrow, usmash
Having less cooldown on dsmash and usmash in particular allows kirby to be able to combo out of the moves much more easily. As they are currently, they would be incredible combo moves, but have an enormous cooldown animation which prevents that. Dthrow would function better with a little less cooldown as well. - reduced startup on uair, usmash, dair, dash attack, downB
by decreasing the startup animations (prior to the hitbox being active) on moves like dair and uair, kirby gains a lot more combo potential. Kirby's dair is a reasonably good move, but with less startup (and a little less landing lag) it would actually be pretty useful in more situations. Kirby's usmash OoS would also be a viable option in many scenarios if it started up faster. Since the move is so weak, it would serve more as a combo starter. Kirby's dash attack would also be relatively useful with a few changes (one of which being the startup animation). In smash64, downB was an effective combo finisher. It could serve this same purpose (without the ludicrous hitstun of 64) by having a faster startup animation. - increased aerial mobility during final cutter (upB)
this makes kirby's recovery suck a little less. - Fsmash is stronger.
Kirby needs a kill move. I think his other smashes serve well as combo options, but fsmash really needs to kill things. I think this one is pretty obvious. - reduced cooldown to bair. I don't know why I thought this point should be separate, but basically, with faster bair, kirby could do things like sh double bair, or sh bair waveland, which would just make him play smoother overall and be able to mix up his bair spacing.
- increased power on DownB. The move should actually be a little threatening.
- Fsmash has a lower angle trajectory
- Swallow (+absorb power) puts people into hitstun. In melee, if you hit down after swallowing someone, they can attack while you are still in the absorb animation, which basically renders it useless, since they can just beat the power out of you.
- uthrow puts kirby on the ground. In melee, kirby's uthrow is pretty bad since it keeps kirby in the air, with no jumps. On some characters, at low percents, you could chain it into moves like upB, sideB, or uair, or some absorbed powers, but at mid-high percent it served no purpose.
- Fthrow & Bthrow:
as awesome as it would be, kirbycides should not be guaranteed. However, opponents should not be able to mash out of the throw until it passes the plane in which it started (ground level). The other major difference would be that the fthrow animation should end with kirby on the ground. This allows him to follow the throw up for combos, as well as have a low percent cg on several heavier characters like falcon. - Dash attack can be jump cancelled.
This opens a lot of options to kirby. paired with the reduced startup anmation I mentioned earlier (and usmash changes), this would give kirby's dash attack a lot more of a purpose. Obviously, he could grab out of it, he could use it as a combo extender (in combination with jc usmash), it would also provide interesting edgeguard options (namely, dash attack->jc uair or dair on some characters), as well as improve off platform options. - UpB meteor changed to a weak spike, similar to fox's dair.
this change is enough to gimp many characters offstage, or offer some combo-ability, but without breaking the character's edgeguarding ability.
- Overall speed of UpB increased.
basically just improves the move a little, allows it to be used more in neutral. - Aerial sideB doesn't pop up, acts more like a drill (pulls characters down with it)
I absolutely hate the way the PMBR went about trying to fix this character. They had a cool idea, but they did it really wrong.
I think mewtwo is definitely a character who suffers from speed and range. It's pretty much all just minor fixes.
This idea of mewtwo is essentially a much faster, slightly stronger version of his melee self.
It significantly improves him, without breaking the hell out of him like pm did.
The idea is a mewtwo balanced around the mid-tier level.
Minor changes:
- increased run speed. Mewtwo can be kind of fast on the ground because his wavedash covers a lot of space, but he really needs a faster run. Like drastically faster. Basically as fast as marth or sheik.
- increased fallspeed.
- Decreased jumpsquat animation
- Increased power/kb on bair
- lower trajectory, but less kb on bthrow
- faster jump speed (both off the ground and dj). This allows mewtwo to get to the platforms a little more easily.
- Reduced cooldown on dthrow animation. This would allow mewtwo to more effectively combo, tech chase, and cg certain characters.
- slightly reduced cooldown on sideB. Basically the same concept as dthrow, but it can serve as more of an aerial interrupt in specific situations.
- increased range on fair. Obvious.
- sped up dair animation
- final hit on nair has increased kb/hitstun
- Shield slightly bigger.
- Initial dash goes much further. This gives mewtwo's dd and foxtrot more purpose.
- downB from behind (or on shields) acts as a weak hit (like a jab). This gives mewtwo a few combo options in certain situations and makes the move a little less useless. As a jab type move, it would also serve to turn opponents around, which could lead to another downB (stunning them) if they crouch cancel.
- SideB actually reflects projectiles.
Mr.Gay is pretty interesting, because he's very close to being a good character, he just has some glaring weaknesses. Like mewtwo, it's mostly minor changes.
Again, I don't like the way that he was fixed in P:M, although there are definitely some good ideas there, I think it just changed the way he plays too much.
Minor changes:
- dair hitbox active frame 4 rather than frame 12. Landing lag slightly reduced.
Basically, what this does is give g&w a pretty viable OoS option (other than his UpB OoS, which is mediocre), and just a fast aerial in general, which he really lacks. - Shield size basically doubled (a mild exaggeration, but pretty much) . That's a given.
- Neutral B (frying pan) reduced start-up. First bacon (sausage is lame) released on frame 10 rather than 18. Same for the active pan hitbox.
This makes pan spiking a little more viable, as well as slightly improving bacon in neutral. - dash attack sped up.
- Upsmash animation sped up. significantly reduced start-up animation.
- dsmash startup reduced. Just helps his combo game a little more at low-percent.
- Nair comes out like 7 frames earlier. This makes shield drop nair a lot more viable, but not insane like pikachu or something.
- All aerials can be L-cancelled. Obv.
- IASA frames on neutral B.
- invincibility on frames 1-3 of sideB (that's way before the hitbox is actually active, this basically makes it a little better as a hard punish for laggy panic moves). Super armor for 9 hammer while the hitbox is active.
- downB (bucket animation, not oil panic) can be shield cancelled.
- aerial mobility after upB slightly increased
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