DK VS Ganondorf and Captain Falcon

[YoshiKongBarkley3000]

i've been playing DK for about a yr he's the character i've been playing since melee came out (next to yoshi). But the main match ups that i have the most trouble against are Ganondorf and Captain Falcon. I seen that ganon does really well against DK because of DK's sheild isn't that good against most of ganon's attacks and i always get beaten by ganondorf so what are good and effective way to do well against ganon. And how do i be a effective DK against a really good Falcon?

 

[RaynEX]

I find the easiest matches for DK to actually be CF and Ganon.

SO many throw combos! IF you space well with your Bair, CF can't even approach you. Chainthrow up a bit and mix in an usmash, utilt or two, and of course uairs to Giant Punches. This match-up is all about not getting grabbed, and abusing throw combos.

Same thing against Ganon. Don't sit in your shield though. Charge camp with your Punch, get in/deliver some grab ****/ get out. If he goes aggro on you though, your screwed. You need to learn to abuse your openings vs. a well spaced Ganon.

Hope that helped.

 

[YoshiKongBarkley3000]

that's my problem against ganon and cf i always try to sheild grab but i never try to use spacing against ganon and falcon i just try to use internal attacks against falcon but it fails cause u can get chaingrabbed and shorthopped faired..

 

[BearsAreScary]

Up B is your bestestest friend in this matchup
I know that's true for every matchup, but CF and ganon are tall enough to get hit by b-air -> up-B in shield, and CFs and ganons love to d-air their targets.
The greatest thing is watching them come down on you (with d-air), hit up B at the last second, and watch them fly off the screen. If you time it right it should work every time. This is a great surprise for anyone who's never seen DK played seriously before.

 

[Dr. Hyde]

yeah That worked on me ONCE. It hasn't happened again though.

Has any DK had trouble recoverying against a Ganon? My friend keeps getting my D+B from the airs when he is trying to recover and its just killing him. I acknowledge that this is a hard match up for DK if he can't get a grab.

 

[MEXICAN]

yeah That worked on me ONCE. It hasn't happened again though.

Has any DK had trouble recoverying against a Ganon? My friend keeps getting my D+B from the airs when he is trying to recover and its just killing him. I acknowledge that this is a hard match up for DK if he can't get a grab.

Tell him to learn to ledge tech the down b. If he's getting hit farther out, then he just needs to work on his spacing. I almost never die by a ganons down b, and usually, i end up killing the ganon

 

[YoshiKongBarkley3000]

other difficulties with ganon is uair

 

[MEXICAN]

other difficulties with ganon is uair

Yeah, thats one that is extremely difficult to get around if the ganon knows what he's doing, cuz you can't really tech it if he uses ganon's feet instead of his legs. I've teched it before at SCC against Mr.Ganondorf, but it was the first time ever, and i didn't even know it was possible. lol, even Mr.Ganondorf was like "Wow, i thought it was impossible to tech it if i sweetspotted it, nobody else has ever teched it before", (or something to that effect). I definately would not rely on teching unless you don't get hit with the sweetspot. Most of the time, i don't try to mindgame them when they use the u air cuz the u air is really hard to wait out since it has so much range, so i usually just rush them with the up b. If you come in fast and just rush in, most of the time you can usually hit them with you're up b before ganon can start his u air.

 

[El HP]

Against ganon you need to move, that is your only option to avoid damage since you can't rely on your shield so try to pick big stages.

As for falcon smaller stages gives you a better chance to win since he won't be able to use his speed at his full potential, well timed f-tilts and b-airs can stop his aerial attacks.

 

[MEXICAN]

Against ganon you need to move, that is your only option to avoid damage since you can't rely on your shield so try to pick big stages.

As for falcon smaller stages gives you a better chance to win since he won't be able to use his speed at his full potential, well timed f-tilts and b-airs can stop his aerial attacks.

I wouldn't recommend using the f-tilts against falcon, because if you miss, you leave yourself open for an attack. B air is definately the safe bet. I would only use the f tilt if you absolutely have to, like if you don't have time to turn around to do a b air, but even then, i'd probably just shield the incoming attack and jump/roll away, or do something to get away so that i can back into the battle with a b air.

On a side note, if you play a ganon, and do a b air while he is shielding, you wanna always be at the max distance that you can space the attack, or minimum, you never wanna be in the middle. If you space it out far enough, you're out of grab range and can do whatever you want from there. If you do your b air as close as possible, you can l cancel and do an up b before the ganon can grab you, and 99% of ganons always try to grab after you b air them. However, if you're anywhere in the middle, you'll be within grab range but out of range for the sweet spot for the up b, so never space yourself that badly.

 

[El HP]

I wouldn't recommend using the f-tilts against falcon, because if you miss, you leave yourself open for an attack. B air is definately the safe bet. I would only use the f tilt if you absolutely have to, like if you don't have time to turn around to do a b air, but even then, i'd probably just shield the incoming attack and jump/roll away, or do something to get away so that i can back into the battle with a b air..

Yeah it is very risky but rewarding because it gives you a chance to tech chase and grabbing falcon is what you want to do in this match.

On a side note, if you play a ganon, and do a b air while he is shielding, you wanna always be at the max distance that you can space the attack, or minimum, you never wanna be in the middle. If you space it out far enough, you're out of grab range and can do whatever you want from there. If you do your b air as close as possible, you can l cancel and do an up b before the ganon can grab you, and 99% of ganons always try to grab after you b air them. However, if you're anywhere in the middle, you'll be within grab range but out of range for the sweet spot for the up b, so never space yourself that badly.

The good ol b-air to up-b is as good as always.

 

[MEXICAN]

Yeah it is very risky but rewarding because it gives you a chance to tech chase and grabbing falcon is what you want to do in this match.

at low damages, falcon won't even fall to the floor for a tech chase after a f tilt. Idk, again, my advice personally is to use this sparingly. There's not really much reason to ever use a f tilt over a b air, especially since you can l cancel a b air, which means its easier to tech chase. Cuz if you f tilt a falcon or ganon, by the time you finish your f tilt and start running, they've already tech'd away and are up and moving again. Its not so bad if its closer to the edge where they don't really have any room to tech away, but again, i'd rather just use a b air

 

[YoshiKongBarkley3000]

so bair is the best move to use against ganon and falcon

 

[RyNo 86]

yea. You should always use the bair. If you do it right you can make a combo out of nothing but the bair. It really is the best attack for the job.

 

[halfDemon]

Do not use the FTilt against quick characters.

FTilt is a long, slow move. It's excellent at keeping an opponent away, in their shield, or smacking their dashdancing asses. The problem against someone quick like Falcon or Fox is that if you miss, they'll rush you very fast. It's too slow.

I still like it for edgeguarding most every character, though.

 

[MEXICAN]

I like it in some situations for comboing. If someone is influencing forward after an u throw (talking about fox/falco/falcon), you can u air, regrab, u throw, u air, u air, n air, f tilt. I do it all the time. After the n air, they aren't too far away, so you have a chance to use the f tilt. Sometimes you can even do a giant punch after the n air, depending on how they influence, but its not usually guaranteed, and i like saving the punch for edgeguarding, so i use the f tilt. It adds a little bit more damage, its safe, and after the combo, they're usually just off the ledge by the time you use the f tilt, and it puts them in a bad spot after you've f tilted them, especially if you have your punch charged.

 

[YoshiKongBarkley3000]

I like using the nair it's a good move i think it's DK's second best move next to his Bair it's effective against ganon's recovery i use it as a edgeguard move.

 

[halfDemon]

I like using the nair it's a good move i think it's DK's second best move next to his Bair it's effective against ganon's recovery i use it as a edgeguard move.

No. No offence, but there are MUCH better moves to use as an edgeguard than the ape's NAir. DTilt, FTilt, BAir, Up+B all work better than NAir in every edgeguarding situation. Although I must admit that it does look hot.

 

[MEXICAN]

No. No offence, but there are MUCH better moves to use as an edgeguard than the ape's NAir. DTilt, FTilt, BAir, Up+B all work better than NAir in every edgeguarding situation. Although I must admit that it does look hot.

There are some situations where dk's n air is the best option. If/when fox has started his up b, and you don't have enough time to turn around for the b air, you can n air him before he finishes his startup. Also, DK's n air has the least lag out of all of his aerial moves. The move ends almost immediately after hitbox frames end, while the b air lasts awhile after the hitbox frames end. I definately wouldn't lead with the n air all the time, but it does have its uses

 

[James Sparrow]

I think these matchups are easy because they are tall and up-b sweet spots them a lot. You can also do crazy uair juggles into donkey punch on both of them.

 

[halfDemon]

There are some situations where dk's n air is the best option. If/when fox has started his up b, and you don't have enough time to turn around for the b air, you can n air him before he finishes his startup. Also, DK's n air has the least lag out of all of his aerial moves. The move ends almost immediately after hitbox frames end, while the b air lasts awhile after the hitbox frames end. I definately wouldn't lead with the n air all the time, but it does have its uses

See, I'd prefer to Up+B in that situation. I guess it's really just preference.

 

[RyNo 86]

I think the nair is good for braking up a combo, since pretty much your whole body is the hit box. And it is his least laggy aerial.

 

[El HP]

at low damages, falcon won't even fall to the floor for a tech chase after a f tilt. Idk, again, my advice personally is to use this sparingly. There's not really much reason to ever use a f tilt over a b air, especially since you can l cancel a b air, which means its easier to tech chase. Cuz if you f tilt a falcon or ganon, by the time you finish your f tilt and start running, they've already tech'd away and are up and moving again. Its not so bad if its closer to the edge where they don't really have any room to tech away, but again, i'd rather just use a b air

The b-air is definitely better but using the f-tilt occassionally is not bad idea to avoid being predictable and you can surprise your opponents.

 

[AOB]

The nice thing about the slap is that you can do it facing forward! The back air is spamalicious, but I like to use the slap too.

 

[Number 1 DK]

You said you had trouble with getting hit through your shield. That means that youre not using your light shield, which you should always use with DK, since it covers his whole body.

 

[MEXICAN]

The f tilt is extremely useful against marth imo. I like to use the f tilt cuz it can beat marths aerial moves if timed and spaced correctly, and it can even cancel out his f smash if timed and spaced correctly. Just spamming b airs doesn't usually work against marth, throwing in a f tilt every once in awhile helps

 

[Wilhelmsan]

You said you had trouble with getting hit through your shield. That means that youre not using your light shield, which you should always use with DK, since it covers his whole body.

For a lot of techniques in this game, there are "superior" ones that deal with the same situation, yet are more difficult to use.

Lightshielding is a pretty easy solution to the problem of getting hit when you're shielding. It's also a lot less effective for shieldgrabbing and especially against shield pressure tactics, as you're stunned for longer.

Putting up a normal, correctly angled shield is way more difficult. At the same time it leaves you with more options.

 

[halfDemon]

There are some situations where dk's n air is the best option. If/when fox has started his up b, and you don't have enough time to turn around for the b air, you can n air him before he finishes his startup. Also, DK's n air has the least lag out of all of his aerial moves. The move ends almost immediately after hitbox frames end, while the b air lasts awhile after the hitbox frames end. I definately wouldn't lead with the n air all the time, but it does have its uses

I've been using more DK today at a tourney, and the NAir really did come in useful many times. I take back most of what I said. NAir > DTilt *****.

 

[YoshiKongBarkley3000]

his Nair isn't bad it's a good move in some cases it's one of his more faster moves next to his bair.