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Experience against Yoshi?

-Key-

Smash Cadet
Joined
Jan 28, 2014
Messages
56
Location
Wesley Chapel, FL
A Yoshi player is currently taking my local area by storm, and one of the main challenges he presents (especially to a grab-dependent character like Falcon) is the fact that he's stumbled upon this technique that allows him to avoid grabs simply by shielding them with a specific timing. He's dubbed it the "Grab Parry" and even featured it in one of his combo videos that I have linked here: http://youtu.be/tVcSy-OoBMA?t=1m45s

Suffice to say, between him avoiding many of my grabs simply by shielding and him absorbing most of my attacks with his double jump armor, I have a hard time mounting any sort of offense. I'm also pretty sure that I've yet to successfully edgeguard him, so his stocks end up lasting forever. He's quite accurate with his egg throws and because of that, I'm often enticed into approaching on his terms. This predictably ends badly for me. I hope to get more matches with him soon so that I can try experimenting with different strategies, but in the mean time, I'm at a loss.

If you're interested in seeing full matches of him, here's a playlist he just posted. I haven't had a chance to watch them yet so I don't know how good the featured opponents are. Eventually I will have video of our matches, but for now this is the best I have to offer:
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLy8EI0AQ1Dj0rFW9ceVUJLhtEMxdnX9si

One thing I've been thinking about is how Up-B might be able to be utilized as an edgeguard. It seems like it should eat Yoshi's double jump (EDIT: it does not, and I had a big "duh" moment when I realized that Up-B always gives the victim their double jump back), but the downside is that it's far from an easy move to connect with and you'd almost assuredly SD if you messed up. In terms of Up-B in the context of the ground game, I'm not sure what would happen if Yoshi did the Grab Parry against it. The Parry would probably prevent the grab just like it does against every other grab, but I don't know that for sure.

Even if you don't have tips based on experience against Yoshi (he seems to be among the rarer PM characters), I'm willing to try basically any theory-craft you might come up with. Given that I've reached the point where I'm considering Up-B as a potential strategy, chances are your ideas will be more sane than mine. Thanks.
 
Last edited:

2-Toes

Smash Rookie
Joined
Oct 19, 2013
Messages
13
@ -Fatality- -Fatality- Will probably have some insight here. I've only played a few matches with him with my Yoshi, but I learned a few things. One thing is that footstools are devastating to Yoshi off stage.

Since I play both characters, I can tell you that it is frustrating but you will probably have to win by percent rather than edge guarding. Yoshi's armor works by eating a certain amount of percent, so a knee might be able to break through in certain situations. Ultimately, you just need to have your punish game on point and try to win the neutral. Yoshi is weird because he can escape certain situations easy, but Falcon still has better movement and punishes. Play as safe and smart as you can.

Also, aMSa has some videos of him playing falcon's on his youtube channel. It's melee, but most of the matchup knowledge still applies.
 

-Fatality-

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Dec 12, 2010
Messages
358
Location
Lilburn, GA
NNID
FatalityFalcon
3DS FC
3695-0049-3723
This matchup is difficult, but very winnable. Here's the general matchup plan.
Try to control center stage, if getting Nair'd OOS commonly happens to you when you approach, counteract that with footstool falcon kick when you jump on top of them, or empty hop grabs depending on the situation. If taking center stage is tricky for other reasons, camp on platforms until an opportunity to swoop down presents itself. Once you have center stage, use a wall of aerials, feints, jabs, and walking to corner Yoshi near the ledge.
Bait Yoshi into commiting to something, profit. If you're regularly getting super-armor Nair'd or such in the middle of your combo attempts, then you need to become a faster player. Falcon combos Yoshi extremely well if you can get a solid hit in, make the moment count! Otherwise, just try to have good fundamentals, as without those, the gameplan won't accomplish anything.

Don't let Yoshi ever take you to FD, FOD, or YS Game 1. Game 2 and beyond, ban FD, Skyloft, FOD, and YS, prioritzed in that order. Yoshi's greatest asset against you (his juggling game), is greatly weakened when you can escape to platforms.

Challenging Yoshi offstage is generally not worth the risk, unless you're very conservative about it. Using well spaced reverse U-airs and other stuff following ledge invincibility is good, just don''t get overzealous.
 
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