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Fox micro optimization.

Technowizard

Smash Rookie
Joined
Dec 18, 2015
Messages
5
What are some small things that many foxes do where they could be doing it better/differently? I'll start, single jab resetting when they could be double jab resetting to prevent sdi up and the reset to fail. (also does a bit extra damage)
 

1000g2g3g4g800999

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jul 21, 2012
Messages
368
Location
Earth
Not sure what counts as "small," but...

Downtilting other character's tilts or out of a CC, because its range is actually bonkers. Shield stopping. Easy spacing for aerials, through jump oos or shield drops. Pummeling and using lasers (including mid combo, like between waveshines) to unstale moves where shield stun and priority might actually matter. Inputting laser before a tech-situation to land laglessly if hitstun ends before you reach the ground. Using laser's minimal shield stun as a control for timing if they take no damage.

Abusing his phenomenal OoS game say, whenever the opponent enters the air, or using it after mild damage to an opponent's shield. Wavedash out of shield shine (or often grab) and Shield DI ->usmash, grab, shine, whatever, or shield DI away into wd away or buffer roll away to escape.

Never ever spot-dodging unless they actually genuinely think they'll get a hit because the opponent whiffed, as rolling is superior otherwise in almost any situation.

Using illusion as a combo move (not in neutral, lol) or to hit rolls from further away/tech-chase (this is more of a Falco thing).More practical for rolls that travel longer distances. Shine->illusion can be used on ICs/Luigi, beware of the CC.

Upsmashing missed techs (or utilting them, or uairing) more instead of jab-resetting, or even down-smashing, depending on expected DI. Because why even play the "SDI the reset" minigame?

Downsmashing characters not named puff at the ledge, or using it as a go to whiff punish move considering it's 1 frame faster than grab and usmash, hits both sides, has invincibility to on the legs when it comes out (and thus, range), and sends people at bad angles. Throwing it in as a DI mixup for usmash, as well.

Comboing off fthrow on lighter chars. Fthrow dash attack, fthrow nair, fthrow ftilt, etc.

For less tech-heavy Foxes, holding shield when lasering to prevent standing lasers.

For foxes with more finesse, pivot uptilt omg

Using Fox's speed at which he reaches the apex of his jumps and then his fast fall to jump over and opponent during a combo and land on them with a falling nair out of a fullhop or DJ when they're airborne. Given how bad options tend to be out of hitstun in the air, one could easily take their jump if they did it a little slower. Moreover, already falling can potentially mean more time for whatever the next hit of the combo is to connect.

Running shield (not dash, that's shield stopping), or walking shield for shorter ranges. Honestly great for everyone, but with Fox's speed, and how much people are expecting an attack, this does great vs every attempt to wall you out, and may attempts to outspace your approach. The ground you'd lose of you WD back because they didn't do anything to punish OoS is minimal compared to how much you gain from going into a full run.

Shining less when it won't hit. Let's face it, it's a little bit of a movement restriction, and wavedashing forwards if the opponent isn't in lag isn't safe. Also makes chasing rolls or punishing a wd OoS easier off of pressure, which brings me to...

Standing at safe ranges against a shield (behind most chars, or otherwise simply sufficiently far away), and just waiting to react to what they do, or if their shield health goes down a little, put up your own shield after a bit, even if they don't do anything.

Walking. You can cancel it with the all-powerful dash and other movement options at any time, but it's less restrictive than any of them outside of not letting you stop on a dime, and is easier to react to things with, and lets you approach at a more varied tempo. More potential variation in pace of the game.

Outranging or out-prioritizing moves with Fox's ground options. Upsmash can basically beat most aerials in the game from their normal and preferred angles, and if not, trade. Upsmash beats every jab, even if you can't really start it later (relevant vs jab pressure, which you can usmash while ASDIing down, even oos), and most tilts (and several tilts come out later than usmash!), and if the opponent stales their tilt by hitting you trying to wall you out, this is even easier. You can also tilt spam back vs other character's tilts with well, any of Fox's tilts, they all do a decent job. Grab automatically beats non-grab hitboxes if you touch the opponent's hurtbox, and Fox's grab range is fine (not to mention, it doesn't get crouched like some other grabs in this game).

Missed tech and tech-in place off ledge, SDIing resets off ledges, DIing any more horizontally based combo move away and/or down (or moves that knock you downward), and adding different types of vertical SDI on launchers. Because you don't need to make people's time punishing the character they practice punishing the most easier.
 

Barry BlaZe

Smash Cadet
Joined
Jan 12, 2015
Messages
73
Location
New York
One idea is against people who fall from shine like fox/falco. When u shine instead of wavedash jab, do wavedash dash attack so they cant sdi out of it.
 

tauKhan

Smash Lord
Joined
Feb 9, 2014
Messages
1,349
One idea is against people who fall from shine like fox/falco. When u shine instead of wavedash jab, do wavedash dash attack so they cant sdi out of it.
Dash attack could be good if you hit the clean hitbox, and your opponent isn't ready to tech it. However you've got to be really aware of staling, since if the dash attack is staled at all, it will jab reset and the opponent will get out for free without the need to SDI. Hitting weak dash attack will also always let the opponent escape.
 

F1SHER

scrub
Joined
Oct 8, 2014
Messages
83
Slippi.gg
FSHR#913
dash attack is great for transitioning from chaingrab to techchase, should you want to (vs spacies) and speaking of upthrow followups, upthrow >wavedash/walk >dsmash. I get sooo much mileage out of this GIMP CITY. also uthrow >wavedash fsmash is so sick. dtilting the missed tech after shine is really cool and leads into whatever you want lol you're fox after all. against characters that you can waveshine dtilt is still a good followup to shine if you want to be cool or go for an edgeguard instead of a vertical ko /extended punish
 
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