Ganon's moveset-tierlist

[Z1GMA]

Ganon's moveset-tierlist​

The metagame has evolved a lot since we last did this,
so I thought it'd be interesting to share our thoughts once again.

The Attacks:
Jab
Ftilt
Dtilt
Utilt
Nair
Bair
Fair
Dair
Uair
Fsmash
Dsmash
Usmash
Dash Attack
Pummel
Uthrow
Bthrow
Dthrow
Fthrow
Warlock Punch
Gerudo/Aerudo
Wizkick/Aerial Wizkick
Dark Dive
(GUAs & CUAs are not included.)

-¤-¤-¤-¤-¤-¤-

Evil:

High:

Middle:

Low:

Bottom:

(There will be no voting or such nonsense, nor will we create an accurate list and place in the OP.
This is all just to see people's different opinions.)

 

[Z1GMA]

(GUAs & CUAs are not included.)

 

[DLA]

Evil:

-Dair
-Uair
-Dash Attack
-Gerudo

High:

-Dtilt
-Fair
-Nair
-Ftilt

Mid:

-Wizkick
-Bair
-Fsmash
-Jab
-Usmash

Low:

-Up B
-Dsmash

Bottom:

-Utilt
-Warlock Punch

 

[Bahamut777]

It's useless to vote for EVIL placing...
We all know which move is suited for that tier.

High:
UAir
DTilt
Jab
SideB
DAir

Middle:
BAir
FTilt
NAir
FSmash
Dash Attack
DThrow
FAir
USmash
DownB
Aerial SideB
FThrow

Low:
DSmash
UpB Uppercut
BThrow
UThrow
UTilt

Bottom:
UpB Shock
Pummel

Don't think I've forgot any move...

 

[Z1GMA]

It's useless to vote for EVIL placing...

We won't vote for anything.

I just thought it'd be interesting to see ppl's opinions.

 

[Terodactyl Yelnats]

Evil:
Uair
Gerudo
Dash Attack
Dair
Dtilt

High:
Bair
Nair
Wizkick
Ftilt
Fair
Dthrow

Mid:
Fthrow
Jab
Fsmash
Fair
Bthrow

Low:
Uthrow
Dsmash

Bottom:
Utilt
UpB
Warlock punch

 

[thexsunrosered]

you forgot aerial wizkick

 

[Z1GMA]

Evil:
Uair

High:
Dtilt
Gerudo/Aerudo
Dash Attack

Middle:
Bair
Dair
Dthrow
Nair
Jab
Fthrow
Wizkick/Aerial Wizkick
Usmash
Ftilt
Fsmash
Fair
Uthrow

Low:
Bthrow
Dsmash
Dark Dive
Utilt

Bottom:
Warlock Punch

 

[A2ZOMG]

Top:
U-air
Dash Attack

High:
N-air
D-tilt
D-air
Flame Choke
Wizkick
F-throw
F-air

Mid:
F-smash
B-air
D-throw
U-throw
Jab
D-smash
F-tilt
B-throw

Bottom:
U-smash
U-tilt
Dark Dive
Warlock Punch

 

[Exalted]

Exalted Tier: RAWP Recovery

 

[Z1GMA]

Do you hate Usmash that much, A2?

 

[A2ZOMG]

I can't find any real ways to land U-smash except in really dumb situations like Ganon doing a wizkick on shield or punishing spotdodge in Ganon dittos. Like honestly, this move is really stupidly hard to land. The best use is for baiting people who still don't understand how to react to it.

I can land D-smash since I can use it to outspace random things or since the first hit is actually fast enough to punish a few things on reaction. U-smash looks like it's meant to anti-air, but you can't do any of that on reaction due to its horrible startup and range. F-smash anti-airs better than U-smash due to the really quick leanback that can legit bait poor spacing (and is more likely to kill + extra damage).

Not that it's truly relevant, but I thought I would also add that Ganon's back roll I would put similar in useful potential to his F-air. It's quite honestly a good option, and is worth using when you consider how effectively Lucarios get away with forward roll crossups. If you have the opportunity to use that instead of forward roll, always do. Ganon can be hit out of forward roll before he moves full distance. He basically always moves full distance when back rolling (and for a short time his hurtbox size is decreased iirc).

 

[DLA]

Usmash is excellent in teams, since it auto-sweetspots with a lot of characters' Bthrows. It's often the best option to charge a Usmash when your teammate grabs someone, because it will kill at like 70% if your teammate throws your opponent at you and the Usmash sweetspots. And since Usmash has such deceptively little landing lag, your other opponent will often miss the punish.

But yeah Usmash is pretty useless in singles... it isn't particularly unsafe, but it's just really hard to hit with. It's good for mindgames though, because of the IASA frames.

 

[Z1GMA]

Usmash's sick IASAs allow quicker follow-ups than any other move in Ganon's arsenal.
Not only because of its IASAs, but the IASAs in releation to the heavy-attack hitstun.

Also, I've been testing some Usmash-stuff together with Gerudo recently, and it is quite coo'.

And unlike Fsmash, Usmash can't get "heavily" punished.

It is very opponent-dependant, though.
Truly great Vs Wario & Jiggly, and other floaty air-spacers.

 

[smashkng]

Godly
Uair

High

Dair
Gerudo
DA (I wish this move didn't drag the opponent with Ganon when normal shielded)
Dtilt
Grounded Wizard Kick
Nair

Middle

Fair
Aerial Wizard Kick
Grab (why not put this move)
Fthrow
Bthrow
Fsmash
Ftilt
Low

Bair (this move would have been SO much better if it had a low hitbox, it's lame that it doesn't hit low characters and even against other Ganons the hitbox doesn't always hit)
Dthrow (can't you just DI away from all the follow-ups)
Uthrow
Up b Uppercut
Bottom

Usmash
Jab (why jab when you have Dtilt, and its range is about the same as Ftilt and can still be crouched under by characters like Kirby)
Dsmash
Up b Grab

Refurse to use cause it's super situational

Warlock Punch (only better than Utilt because it can situationally be used for increasing the recovery distance)
Utilt

 

[A2ZOMG]

U-smash is actually extremely punishable on reaction. It's matchup dependent I guess, but it's a very unsafe move (unless it's blocked). 11 frame charge release (which is reactable) and about 22 frames of ending lag. Not that much ending lag, but when you consider how many moves outspace U-smash, it's really not something I like throwing out too much.

U-smash is actually okay in the Jiggs matchup since a shielded Pound can be Up-smashed out of shield (although usually they're going to use Pound in reaction to you doing a move or to punish landings). I wouldn't U-smash against Wario though, since reverse U-air is superior for most purposes except grab release combos. And I definitely wouldn't U-smash against someone like Marth or G&W.

And I guess it's rewarding when you land it in D-air combos, since it sets up juggles alright.

And it's kinda odd to be saying this, but I really think Ganons should use more Dash Attack. It's really an amazing move. The threat of it alone is enough to get people to play differently (which usually means shielding or retreat spacing when they see you running at them). Because of how amazing Ganon's DA is, running at people with Ganon I believe is his best approach.

 

[Exalted]

I've been Dash Attacking Z1G alot in our dittos, lawl.

U-smash though...just no.

 

[TP]

Guys, let's get one thing straight here.

Utilt>Dsmash.

For real. Dsmash has NO uses against a good player. Utilt does, if only in a couple matchups like Luigi (Hey, in about 7 seconds I'm gonna get near the ledge, see you then!)

 

[Z1GMA]

And I definitely wouldn't U-smash against someone like Marth or G&W.

Usmash is ok -- Not good, but ok, Vs G&W.

Totally worthless Vs Marth, though.

 

[A2ZOMG]

Guys, let's get one thing straight here.

Utilt>Dsmash.

For real. Dsmash has NO uses against a good player. Utilt does, if only in a couple matchups like Luigi (Hey, in about 7 seconds I'm gonna get near the ledge, see you then!)

D-smash is actually an underused spacing option. If you're trying to hit with the first hit primarily, you're using it wrong. It's utility lies in the range of the 2nd hit.

2nd hit D-smash outranges Jab and F-tilt and is only very very slightly outranged horizontally by D-tilt, but has significantly more vertical range than D-tilt, and does more damage. The key thing that makes 2nd hit D-smash a useful spacer is the lean properties on the first hit. You can legit bait spacing mistakes with it, and with the range of 2nd hit D-smash combined with that, the move virtually outranges even Metaknight's attacks.

2nd hit D-smash for this reason is one of Ganon's better anti-air options, an area he is generally very weak in. The ending lag is low enough to get away with if you're using this for countering aerial approaches. Watch the first match of Breezy vs me. There is at least one moment where I demonstrate D-smash being used right. Like here.

By the way the threat of Flame Choke D-smash is extremely useful against Olimar.

 

[Terodactyl Yelnats]

Dthrow to dsmash hits Snake at zero percent

 

[Z1GMA]

Ppl are only hit by Dsmash's 2nd hit because it is rarely used, and they don't expect you to do it.
It has a timing which the opponent isn't used to when facing Ganon.

If it was used consistantly as an anti-air, and for punishing ppl's spacing errors,
they would get used to it, and punish it every time.
After all, it takes almost 30 frames for 2nd to come out.

 

[Z1GMA]

Dthrow to dsmash hits Snake at zero percent

I love it.
I call it the Snake Killer

 

[A2ZOMG]

The leanback on the first hit D-smash starts up sooner, so you can actually FORCE the mistake earlier in the duration of the move. Ganon's body leans forward on the charge stance, meaning already on frame 4 the potential to cause a spacing mistake is there, and his foot and entire body then completely propels forward on frame 11. It's not about when D-smash 2nd hit is active. It's about how the move properties affect Ganon and how that interacts with other players. When you use D-smash in this way, that is when it becomes a useful spacing option.

D-smash definitely has a lot of bad points, but regardless it has a place on Ganon's moveset and can do useful things.

 

[Z1GMA]

Yeah, well, I use Dsmash when the right time comes.
I just don't think it can be used consistantly Vs good players.

A from time to time-Mix Up, yes.
But Consistantly AA'ing, no.

 

[Lord Chair]

Gerudo > dsmash doesn't work on Olimar because there's this thing called SDI.

Sure, people won't SDI if they randomly get hit by it throughout a match, but it's not like Olimars don't see it coming...

 

[Bahamut777]

In Gerudo -> DSmash's case, only DI up is necessary.
Most Olimars only get hit by it once or twice before they figure out what to do.

But, it's still "good" because it refreshes other moves and gives 10% more or less.

 

[smashkng]

Holding up means that they get-up without attacking, in which case Ganon can predict it and charge Fsmash or regrab with Side b.

 

[Dumbfire]

You can react from a Down Smash with DI as well.. Its not that hard, xept for wifi.
And Airdogde you can always do from it.

 

[Terodactyl Yelnats]

Gerudo > dsmash doesn't work on Olimar because there's this thing called SDI.

Sure, people won't SDI if they randomly get hit by it throughout a match, but it's not like Olimars don't see it coming...

You're right, but we'll just SideB dash attack them then :/

 

[A2ZOMG]

Holding up means that they get-up without attacking, in which case Ganon can predict it and charge Fsmash or regrab with Side b.

That's pretty much exactly why I was saying the threat of Flame Choke D-smash is extremely useful. Ganon has strong okizeme on an Olimar who is afraid to get hit by that combo.

But generally speaking, I'm gonna restate that if you're trying to land the first hit of D-smash, you're using the move wrong. It's true utility lies in the range of the 2nd hit.