Help me on some matchups.

[Praxis]

Alright, so I'm back. Officially. For real. Shaking the rust off and coming out of retirement. Time to put my thinking cap back on.

I made a total surprise appearance at a Seattle tournament (five hours from me) and had fun, but my placement was so-so. Among the notables, the two best players in the state (Jem [MK] and Felix [Diddy]) and a Falco (Filip) who just moved here from Japan and has played with all the top players there.

I made it out of Amateur bracket, but did drop two sets there. Got in to winners, took out Eggz (third best MK in the state), lost to Felix and Filip (respectable losses), but the end placement was 7th. Okay, but I want to do better.

The one I specifically needed help with is Dedede at this point. I think I need to try to hold the center harder; I back up too much and rack a lot of damage in the process, but once I get to the ledge, even though I have a 50% lead at that point, I get annihilated. If I lose my lead, I fall apart.

Secondly, Falco.

I've actually got a decent grasp on fighting Falco on stage. What I'm not doing right is edgeguarding. He'd slip by with minimal damage each time; I had him get out of an edgeguarding position at least six times per match, each of which was a potential gimp that would have caused me to win the match. I definitely could have beaten the Japanese player *if* I was edgeguarding him right. So...how do you guys do it?

I've been trying to place a turnip in a position to make it awkward for him to side-B, then put a nair where I think he's going to side-B instead. But very rarely does it connect; I had it clank several times with the set (end result of which is Falco just gets back to the stage for free). I'm usually chasing him offstage with the nair too. Do I just need to improve my timing, or is there a better way to handle it? How do the rest of you edgeguard Falco?

 

[Rickerdy-doo-da-day]

...
lol
Don't worry I still love you Praxis

I'm not important

For DeDeDe, being on the ledge sucks cause F Tilt/F Smash is silly, as is Bair. Your best bet is to just plank a bit by either Up + B'ing or 2nd jumping to continually renew your ledge invincibility frames and then wait until you see an opening for you to jump back on or do a get-up

For Falco, I always thought clanking occurred when you hit with the later stages of Nair? Maybe you need to leave Nair just a little bit later? I can't remember

 

[Deleted member]

I've actually got a decent grasp on fighting Falco on stage. What I'm not doing right is edgeguarding. He'd slip by with minimal damage each time; I had him get out of an edgeguarding position at least six times per match, each of which was a potential gimp that would have caused me to win the match. I definitely could have beaten the Japanese player *if* I was edgeguarding him right. So...how do you guys do it?

I've been trying to place a turnip in a position to make it awkward for him to side-B, then put a nair where I think he's going to side-B instead. But very rarely does it connect; I had it clank several times with the set (end result of which is Falco just gets back to the stage for free). I'm usually chasing him offstage with the nair too. Do I just need to improve my timing, or is there a better way to handle it? How do the rest of you edgeguard Falco?

I only really have a few things, but they might help? I'll try dropping a turnip just over the edge to prevent low 2nd jump ledge grabs, and then literally throw peach at falco with a nair. that means like, if he can side B, I'll try to anticipate it and have a nair there for him to run into, or if he's below the stage, I'll awkwardly fall and just nair into him and trade or not trade and recover and it's a pretty safe way to go about it. I try the generic melee style ground float bair just off the stage for the same thing, etc.

The main thing about falco's recovery is that it's falco and his recovery is pretty safe in general.

 

[M@v]

I'd talk to kyon about edgeguarding falco; He's pretty good at it since he plays a lot of falcos. I played him for like 4 months straight.

 

[LanceStern]

I love Falcos.

What I have been doing recently is:
1) Pull turnip
2) Run off the stage and throw the turnip up
3) Either double jump first, or immediately parasol snap onto the ledge
4) L.I.F.T. (instant ledge float) back on stage and nair or bair

You've got all three areas covered: the air, the ledge and the stage. One of them is hitting Falco.

Or you can knock him off the stage and kind of run at him... something about that makes Falcos panic and they immediately phantasm. You can punish that with nair.

 

[deepseadiva]

Garbs mentioned once that the ideal way to punish phantasm was to jab it, capitalize on the rico lag, and usmash.

 

[M@v]

Oh yeah, if by some chance you are coming to Cot5, I can practice the mu with you if you want. Falco vs Peach is one of my better matchups.

 

[Nicole]

I can't help you with Falco, but DDD isn't too difficult once you understand how to get around his gayness.

The three keys to DDD, I would say, are:
1. throwing turnips upwards -
this makes him unable to approach as safely, forces airdodges, etc. Anytime you see him go up into the air you should throw turnips at him. He is so slow in the air that you can do this without too much difficulty. He will also not like to continue getting hit with turnips and the follow-up that comes after getting hit (or the follow up that results from him airdodging). So he'll stay out of the air more often, which is great.

2. recovering correctly -
DDD can gimp you really well unless you are careful, because his bair stays out so long and he can throw out multiple bairs without really putting himself in any danger. Never use Peach bomber, and always be sure to recover low. When he is at 100% or over he will be able to edgehog you really easily. In this case, you want to be extra careful. Try to attack him at times when you come back. It sounds risky but once you get more practice at it you'll be able to fair him or dair him, and that will make your return to the stage much easier. So just mix up recovering low and hitting him. Hell you can even use toad a couple times, it's not like his bair is unpredictable.

3. do not be where he is -
If he's in the air, you should be on the ground. If he's on the ground you should be in the air. You won't get baired nearly as much, and you won't get grabbed as much either. Just be sure to drop your float at the right time. He's slow so you can pull turnips and use them to help you wall him out when you need to land so that you dont get grabbed.

hope that helps!