(Hopefully!) Good Info Inside!

[FF WuvS]

Well, my AiB peepz told me that they don't think that the SWF's Yoshi forums have this kinda infomation, so I decided to see what you guys think over here about it.

Yeah, most (actually probably all) of you probably aren't aware of who I am. That's because I'm truly active in any of the Smash forums (SWF or AiB) just because I don't voice my voice much. Hopefully I can start changing this and help out the Yoshi community some.

A Little Bio:

I thought I would start out this section/thread by introducing my Smash history. I go by WuvZz (or in Melee WuvS.) I got the name from my childish side. The original name was WuvS, which is how I use to say love. (I Wuv you.) So I think the Smash Community is the best, so I WuvS you all. Haha bad joke Inorite? I started out in Melee in '03 in a small community in Michigan (where I still live) called the Riot. I used Yoshi back then (I use Puff/Mario now) and back then I didn't know about Wavedashing or L-Canceling or anything of that. We had a nice group of people, usually around 10~25ish per year, and I either got first or second within that community thing.
When Brawl came out, I got into the major (slightly) competitive scene in both Melee and Brawl. I don't go to too many major tournies, but when I do, I typically don't do good, if I'm lucky to get out of pools. I use Yoshi in Brawl (strictly Yoshi now.) I enter A LOT of community tournies around Michigan (cheaper and typically closer, but I do travel a bit) and I do epicly at those. Lol failz. I'm hoping to start putting the Yoshi name out there more because people I typically play say my Yoshi *****, offline or online.

If you have anymore questions, please ask =]

Now the real stuff:

Now I thought this was a decent attempt to help save this dying Yoshi thread. I want options on anything Yoshi.
Such as these questions: (My answer will be in ())

- Best Stages (Netural or CP): (Smashville or Delfino Plaza)
- Best Defensive Attack Overall: (B-Air or Neutral Special)
- Best Offensive Attack Overall: (U-Air)
- Best Tech.: Double Jump Egg Lay
- Hardest Match-up: (You'll lulz at me. For me, it's Zelda. Lawlz, I fail.)
- On a scale 1-10, how helpful do you think GR's are?: (9.5)
- Highest spot you think Yoshi will reach on the Tier List?: (19th)

I think that is a nice group of questions! If you have one that you think I should ask that would be a nice global questions, I'll answer it and put it up here!

Kill Percents:

Now this chart is not finished, no where near close. If people would like to help me, please, be my guest. This is probably flawed one way or another, but I'm hoping that in one way or another this can help somehow. I can the first 2 rows (vertically, I couldn't recall correctly) done. Mario Kill Percents: (Weight is 100% = median. This will be the standard to kill rates.)

All info is done on this base:

- Center of FD- Training Mode. CPU DI
- All attacks were hit at their strongest point
- Smashwiki's weight chart helped with pin-pointing where to start testing. (Mario Weight was the median.)

Please remember that these are on FD. The kill percents will vary depending on how ceilings are, how close/far to a blast zone they are, better/worse DI, Momentum Canceling, stale move negation, fast-faller or floaty, and other pending attributes.


Mario Kill Percents: (Weight is 100% = median. This will be the standard to kill rates.)

Jab (1st/2nd): 999%* (varies on location)/259%
F-Tilt: 209%
D-Tilt: 434%
U-Tilt: 287%
N-Air: 150%
U-Air: 123%
F-Air (Hit/Spiked): 143%/186%
B-Air (First Swipe*): 413%
D-Air**: 750%
F-Smash (Charged/Non): 76%/118%
D-Smash (Charged/Non): 130%/188%
U-Smash (Charged/Non): 85%/130%
Down Special (Grounded/Aerial): 111%/163%
Over Special: 170%
Up Special: 510%
Neutral Special: Can’t
U-Throw: 479%
D-Throw: 788%
B-Throw: 290%
F-Throw: 322%
Dash: 197%

Luigi’s Kill Percents: (Weight is 99% of Median. Kill rate will be lower then medians.)

Jab (1st/2nd): 999%* (varies on location)/258%
F-Tilt: 238%
D-Tilt: 429%
U-Tilt: 285%
N-Air: 148%
U-Air: 123%
F-Air (Hit/Spiked): 139%/186%
B-Air (First Swipe*): 411%
D-Air**: 732%
F-Smash (Charged/Non): 76%/117%
D-Smash (Charged/Non): 129%/186%
U-Smash (Charged/Non): 85%/129%
Down Special (Grounded/Aerial): 109%/162%
Over Special: 169%
Up Special: 508%
Neutral Special: Can’t
U-Throw: 476%
D-Throw: 785%
B-Throw: 283%
F-Throw: 314%
Dash: 195%

Peach’s Kill Percents: (Weight is 92% of median. Kill rate will be lower then medians.)

Jab (1st/2nd): 999%* (varies on location)/245%
F-Tilt: 214%
D-Tilt: 418%
U-Tilt: 268%
N-Air: 143%
U-Air: 115%
F-Air (Hit/Spiked): 134%/175%
B-Air (First Swipe*): 389%
D-Air**: ???
F-Smash (Charged/Non): 73%/113%
D-Smash (Charged/Non): 124%/180%
U-Smash (Charged/Non): 79%/121%
Down Special (Grounded/Aerial): 100%/152%
Over Special: 158%
Up Special: 480%
Neutral Special: Can’t
U-Throw: 451%
D-Throw: 733%
B-Throw: 280%
F-Throw: 305%
Dash: 188%

Bowser’s Kill Percents: (Weight is 122% of median. Kill rate will be higher then median.)

Jab (1st/2nd): 999%* (varies on location)/270%
F-Tilt: 229%
D-Tilt: 470%
U-Tilt: 316%
N-Air: 165%
U-Air: 137%
F-Air (Hit/Spiked): 145%/207%
B-Air (First Swipe*): 457%
D-Air**: ???
F-Smash (Charged/Non): 84%/130%
D-Smash (Charged/Non): 146%/209%
U-Smash (Charged/Non): 96%/144%
Down Special (Grounded/Aerial): 128%/181%
Over Special: 189%
Up Special: 563%
Neutral Special: Can’t
U-Throw: 533%
D-Throw: 864%
B-Throw: 312%
F-Throw: 349%
Dash: 215%

Wario’s Kill Percents: (Weight is 109% of median. Kill rate will be higher.)

Jab (1st/2nd): 999%* (varies on location)/275%
F-Tilt: 224%
D-Tilt: 460%
U-Tilt: 305%
N-Air: 157%
U-Air: 131%
F-Air (Hit/Spiked): 146%/197%
B-Air (First Swipe*): 436%
D-Air**: ???
F-Smash (Charged/Non): 81%/126%
D-Smash (Charged/Non): 139%/200%
U-Smash (Charged/Non): 91%/137%
Down Special (Grounded/Aerial): 120%/173%
Over Special: 189%
Up Special: 538%
Neutral Special: Can’t
U-Throw: 503%
D-Throw: 841%
B-Throw: 300%
F-Throw: 342%
Dash: 209%

Yoshi’s Kill Percents: (Weight is 109% of median. Kill rate will be higher than median.)

Jab (1st/2nd): 999%* (varies on location)/269%
F-Tilt: 220%
D-Tilt: 453%
U-Tilt: 302%
N-Air: 157%
U-Air: 130%
F-Air (Hit/Spiked): 149%/197%
B-Air (First Swipe*): 433%
D-Air**: ???
F-Smash (Charged/Non): 80%/124%
D-Smash (Charged/Non): 137%/197%
U-Smash (Charged/Non): 90%/137%
Down Special (Grounded/Aerial): 117%/172%
Over Special: 179%
Up Special: 535%
Neutral Special: Can’t
U-Throw: 500%
D-Throw: 829%
B-Throw: 307%
F-Throw: 336%
Dash: 206%

Diddy Kong’s Kill Percents: (Weight is 95% of median. Kill rate will be lower than median.)

Jab (1st/2nd): 999%* (* = varies on location)/248%
F-Tilt: 209%
D-Tilt: 420%
U-Tilt: 282%
N-Air: 142%
U-Air***: 120%
F-Air (Hit/Spiked): 132%/182%
B-Air (First Swipe*): 406%
D-Air**: ???
F-Smash (Charged/Non): 73%/112%
D-Smash (Charged/Non): 125%/181%
U-Smash (Charged/Non): 83%/127%
Down Special (Grounded/Aerial): 110%/160%
Over Special: 167%
Up Special: 499%
Neutral Special: Can’t
U-Throw: 469%
D-Throw: 789%
B-Throw: 282%
F-Throw: 303%
Dash: 189%

Donkey Kong Kill Percents: (Weight is 118% of median. Kill rate will be higher then median.)

Jab (1st/2nd): 999%* (* = varies on location)/280%
F-Tilt: 236%
D-Tilt: 474%
U-Tilt: 330%
N-Air: 164%
U-Air***: 141%
F-Air (Hit/Spiked): 150%/211%
B-Air (First Swipe*): 466%
D-Air**: ???
F-Smash (Charged/Non): 85%/128%
D-Smash (Charged/Non): 144%/206%
U-Smash (Charged/Non): 99%/148%
Down Special (Grounded/Aerial): 132%/187%
Over Special: 195%
Up Special: 577%
Neutral Special: Can’t
U-Throw: 553%
D-Throw: 916%
B-Throw: 313%
F-Throw: 346%
Dash: 215%

Link's Kill Percents: (Weight is 106% of median. Kill rate will be higher then median.)

N-Air: 154%
U-Air***: 132%
F-Air (Hit/Spiked): 141%/198%
F-Smash (Charged/Non): 78%/121%
U-Smash (Charged/Non): 92%/139%
D-Smash (Charged/Non): 133%/193%
Down-Special (Carried/Hit): 123%/175%
Over-Special: 183%
Dash: 202%

Zelda's Kill Percents: (Weight is 87% of median. Kill rate will be lower then median.

N-Air: 139%
U-Air***: 113%
F-Air (Hit/Spiked): 127%/171%
F-Smash (Charged/Non): 70%/108%
U-Smash (Charged/Non): 77%/118%
D-Smash (Charged/Non): 120%/175%
Down-Special (Carried/Hit): 99%/149%
Over-Special: 156%
Dash: 183%

Sheik's Kill Percents: (Weight is 87% of median. Kill rate will be lower then median.)

N-Air: 137%
U-Air***: 112%
F-Air (Hit/Spiked): 126%/171%
F-Smash (Charged/Non): 68%/107%
U-Smash (Charged/Non): 77%/118%
D-Smash (Charged/Non): 118%/172%
Down-Special (Carried/Hit): 99%/149%
Over-Special: 155%
Dash: 180%

* = It was too hard to keep the foe in the attack to try and try to calulate the other 3 attacks. Sorry.
** = Varies on how many kicks you get in. Foe was grounded. Only calculated Mario’s and Luigi’s because I never really inputed the number of kicks. Rest will remain undetermined.
*** = This attack’s kill percent is probably a lot lower (around 10%-ish) due to the fact that I used it when the CPU was right on the ground, whereas most of the time this attack will be used in the air, a lot closer to the blast zone above.

Sorry I couldn't truly finish this. Each character takes me roughly 1 hour to do, I double/triple checked all the stats before I entered them. Hopefully this could establish a set point where people could think (I could kill Wario between 65-90% with a fully charged F-Smash) or something along those lines. I'm just trying to help Yoshi as much as I can because (No offense) Yoshi needs all the help he can get.

EDIT: (It's not really an edit, but slightly) My AiB peepz also told me that I should only work on the attacks that WILL KILL under 200%.

"So 200%-? I could do that 10x faster. Whatever possessed me to do ALL the attacks is beyond me (especially since I knew 80% of those attacks would never be used to kill under any circumstance.)
Tomorrow then, I'll try to get Row 3 (The LoZ peepz) done" - Me.

So yeah, that pretty much sums it up for me right now. Thanks for reading =D

 

[YOSHssb]

Hey there 101. I know you from AiB =)

The information's good for archival purposes and definitely for people who want to pick up Yoshi. I already pay a LOT of attention to my opponent's damage, and I'm pretty sure what moves will kill at what times. We do discuss what percentages Yoshi kills on average on different characters when we do the character match-ups, but most of the time it's just a rough estimate. The computer (to my knowledge in training mode) doesn't DI any attack, and when you get to higher level of play, your opponent will be VERY good at DI, so it seems like you would add roughly 30% extra to everything you've calculated.

 

[FF WuvS]

Really? I thought CPU's had a decent amount of DI, because honestly, a lot of my friend's DI worse then them of CPU's. CPU's just don't MC like my friend do, but you're right. I was gonna say add around 5-15% per attack due to that.

 

[SOVAman]

tl; dr

 

[FF WuvS]

I posted Link's, Zelda's, and Sheik's Kill Percents up. (I got those 3 done in about 1.25 hours, which is a little more then what would take me to do 1.)
Also, for Mario through DK, should I delete all the useless attacks that are over 200% to save some room?

 

[Poltergust]

Are you using the "stale moves for Training mode" hack? If you aren't then these kill percentages are not entirely accurate. An actually fresh move would have 105% of the knockback of a training mode move.

Also, is it possible for you to record these with someone using DI and momentum-canceling? That would make these numbers as accurate as they could possibly be than without it.

 

[FF WuvS]

I wasn't using that hack because I didn't want Stale moves because I wanted to test fresh moves. I guess I over-thought this a bit. I thought that Training Mode would be a mirror image of actually fighting someone, but with a CPU (minus the better DI and MC.)
I was thinking of having someone DI and MC for me, but I really don't know anyone that can DI or MC that properly.

EDIT: Lol 69th Post <3

 

[Poltergust]

You can't find people can DI or momentum-cancel properly? But... it's so basic. Especially since you know which move is coming.

Are you sure there isn't anyone?

 

[FF WuvS]

I know it's basic, but a lot of my friends are Smash noobs. (Not all, but most...)
I could TRY when I go to my friend's party (Smash party) to see if he could help me. I'll probably be doing the DI/MC and I'll have him attack me, that seems like a better plan.

 

[CelestialMarauder~]

Hey there 101. I know you from AiB =)

The computer (to my knowledge in training mode) doesn't DI any attack.

They do just nothing that significant but enough

An actually fresh move would have 105% of the knockback of a training mode move.

Can you kindly Show me where it says that on the boards? I hear that alot.

 

[Poltergust]

I forgot. It's one of those things you learn about early on in Smash but forget where you picked it up from.

 

[Sinister Slush]

Seeing this makes me want to do One thing I want to do sooner or later.
Download the Hurtbubbles/Invincibility Bubbles/Hitbubbles and make a thread on it. Since with this new thing it's now popping up on some boards.
Anyone else interested in doing this?

 

[SOVAman]

almost forgot

*unsubscribes*

 

[Scarlet Jile]

Seeing this makes me want to do One thing I want to do sooner or later.
Download the Hurtbubbles/Invincibility Bubbles/Hitbubbles and make a thread on it. Since with this new thing it's now popping up on some boards.
Anyone else interested in doing this?

I thought Sharky's thread had hit-boxes. Maybe not.

Thanks for helping out, OP. Even if they aren't 100% accurate it's still good of you to post what you've learned.

 

[Sharky]

I thought Sharky's thread had hit-boxes. Maybe not.

Thanks for helping out, OP. Even if they aren't 100% accurate it's still good of you to post what you've learned.

*gets namesearch-summoned because he usually just posts in threads in this user-cp now*

yes my thread has the hitboxes already. I really need to update that thing though =(

 

[ChaosMagician]

hey finally a yoshi page...n idk where to post this so any good yoshi users?

 

[Sharky]

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=233895&page=424, check this thread and other threads in the yoshi boards in general. =)