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How to approach Ganondorf differently.

BladeOFLucas

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Dec 24, 2013
Messages
249
Okay, so I am going to take a shot at starting a thread. I have noticed that the 3 main thought processes for Ganondorf players are as follows:
1. Ganondorf is not a viable character in and of himself, not really capable of consistently competing at the tournament level with players like M2K and the like. He needs tweaks to compensate for a rapidly evolving cast. Therefore, he needs tweaks.

2. Ganondorf is simply a bait and punish character, and he is excellent at what he does. He does not need tweaks, he just needs people to work him the right way, so spacing, wd's, and the like are your bread and butter.

3. (This one kind of modifies the second) Ganondorf has combos that work on people, lots of options for follow-ups, and the goal is to come up with new combos and surprise foes.


Now, all that being said, I don't think that simply looking at these is going to help progress Ganondorf, yeah we can buff him, but the other points have merit. I think that it is time for us to start doing what some individuals are doing for other characters, and trying to come up with things that no one has ever seen before. It could end up being really stupid, and we might not come up with anything, but I think that a fresh mindset will help us better understand the innate qualities of Ganon that may have been untapped up to this point. So no putting something on here from someone else that has already been looked into. Combine random button combinations or try applying a move for something that you didn't expect, then, if you think that you have found something, post it. We can sift through these, and perhaps our collective experience can find some gem that has remained hidden from the previous demon lords of thieves. Maybe there is some crazy thing you can do with button mashing that could allow you to angle his aerial down-b in a slightly different manner. I know you guys might have already tried this, but I would really like to see if we can come up with anything.
 

Zuba Oki

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jan 17, 2014
Messages
87
Well with regarding projectiles ganondorf has options somewhat.

  1. IIRC, attacks that are 9% or above will clank with weak projectiles (mario's fireballs). All of ganon's moves do more than 9% so will clank with most weak projectiles. For stronger projectiles like samus's chargeshot or lucario's spirit ball your best option is down b. Down d will clank or even bulldoze through strong and weak projectiles.
  2. Powershielding is also a good option for projectiles
  3. Platforms are your best friend when approaching and dealing with projectiles. Wavelands are good for maneuvering obstacle courses and baiting attacks. Also are option are aerial down b ledgecancels. This also serves a more offensive purpose
 

X WaNtEd X

Smash Lord
Joined
Mar 24, 2009
Messages
1,647
Location
Lowell, MA
Idk why people are focusing so much on projectiles. Legit, there are many characters in PM without them. There are much bigger concerns
 

BladeOFLucas

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Dec 24, 2013
Messages
249
Well with regarding projectiles ganondorf has options somewhat.

  1. IIRC, attacks that are 9% or above will clank with weak projectiles (mario's fireballs). All of ganon's moves do more than 9% so will clank with most weak projectiles. For stronger projectiles like samus's chargeshot or lucario's spirit ball your best option is down b. Down d will clank or even bulldoze through strong and weak projectiles.
  2. Powershielding is also a good option for projectiles
  3. Platforms are your best friend when approaching and dealing with projectiles. Wavelands are good for maneuvering obstacle courses and baiting attacks. Also are option are aerial down b ledgecancels. This also serves a more offensive purpose
I don't think you understand what I was saying. I am not looking for things that people already know about. This isn't an "I need advice thread", this is a thread for the investigation of things that people haven't tried yet. Clanking projectiles and power-shielding are techniques that are already known to the general smash community. And wavelands are already heavily utilized by pro Ganons. I did not know about down b ledge cancels, but that isn't the point. The point is to get Ganon mains to utilize their creativity to come up with BRAND NEW ideas, even if they suck.
 

Hungry Headcrab

Smash Ace
Joined
Jul 6, 2013
Messages
541
Location
Washington
Alright, guess I'll throw this up for anyone who hasn't seen it: http://www.twitch.tv/punkpanda777/b/520534996?t=86m

D-throw -> footstool doesn't work often, but I like it because it gives you a chance for dair on characters who can react too fast for that to be an option.

Let's see... I know we can use it on shield to get a surprise dair in. Anyone know if aerial Flame Choke into footstool is an option on anyone?

Anyone have other ideas for footstools?
 

MerzA

Smash Cadet
Joined
Feb 20, 2014
Messages
54
Location
Chicago, IL
Aerial flame choke -> jab -> wiz kick (must end off stage) -> double jump -> dair

Works on fast fallers with non optimal di
 

BladeOFLucas

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Dec 24, 2013
Messages
249
How long until an opponent can act out of a foot-stooled shield? What is the range for a foot-stool to work? Frame data? If we are going to really scrutinize Ganon for footstool potential we've got to know these things.
 

Bazkip

Smash Master
Joined
Dec 15, 2013
Messages
3,136
Location
Canada
How long until an opponent can act out of a foot-stooled shield? What is the range for a foot-stool to work? Frame data? If we are going to really scrutinize Ganon for footstool potential we've got to know these things.
iirc, the one who performs the footstool has a 20 frame advantage (8 frames of lag vs 28 for the person who got footstooled)

I might be off though
 

Yanoss1313

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Oct 15, 2008
Messages
436
Location
Melbourne
iirc, the one who performs the footstool has a 20 frame advantage (8 frames of lag vs 28 for the person who got footstooled)

I might be off though
i recall being able to go directly from an air footstool to a tipper Dair on Marth...
hmm, has anyone tried footstool > auto-canceled Nair > many many things?

i could see it working for dash attacks, downB settups and such. havn't tried it yet.
 

Triforce of Love

Smash Cadet
Joined
May 1, 2014
Messages
33
Location
Hartford, CT
The new up tilt has a first hitbox that goes upwards and comes out as fast as the jab (3-12 frames vs 3-5)! I could see this being useful out of a down or up throw in some situations. Maybe even OOS. and i know that sometimes its a little awkward when an opponent is directly above you on a low platform stage like FoD or yoshis story. maybe maneuvering a quick, jab-like up tilt would be useful in those situations especially when they are at higher percentages and unable to punish.
 
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