How to BEST punish Bayonetta's moves...

[Shuckle_SSB]

Obviously many people hate the character due to her ridiculous 0-deaths and kill confirms, but a strong reason for why the people hate Bayonetta is due to not knowing HOW to punish her. So I am here to explain my own knowledge of how to properly punish some of her most annoying moves. Let's start.

ABK (After-Burner Kick: down angled): One of Bayonetta's most useful tools in the neutral. Landing the downwards dive-kick allows for potential 0-death combos, damage racking combos, or even kill confirms. Punishing the move is near impossible for the entire cast, as Bayonetta bounces off of shields with this move. How do we punish this?
To punish the down angled ABK you need to be sure that she does NOT hit your shield with it. A spot dodge can most of the time do the trick, as she will land on the ground and suffer some lag. That is your chance to strike. Be careful however, as she has a hitbox when hitting the ground. Be sure to time your spot dodges right before Bayonetta is about to hit your shield.

Grounded side B (Launcher?): When Bayonetta does her ABK grounded, she does a heel slide similar to Cloud and Megaman's Dtilt. It crouches underneath some attacks because of how low she is while doing it. There IS a punish window though. To punish, your character must have a quick OoSO (that is an Out of Shield Option) that hits from the ground (since she is so low). Examples of OoSO's that can punish the kick as it crosses up on your shield are: Bowser and Samus's Up B's, Mario and Luigi's Usmashes, & any quick tilt move that hits low (Mr. Game & Watch's Dtilt). Don't ever let her get away with a poor grounded side B, punish on reaction.

Witch Time (down B, counter move): Probably Bayonetta's most nefarious move that people hate the most. Punishing it is slightly different than punishing any old counter though, due to Bayonetta's signature ability: "Bat Within." This special ability allows Bayonetta to get away with a poorly timed counter by instead taking half the damage intended, and teleporting a short distance away depending on the Bayonetta player's choice of direction. The window in witch you should punish her counter is when her legs are about to hit the ground after her backflip. Strike then with a quick move.

I hope this short little guide offered some help to those struggling against the dangerous Umbran. Good luck everyone.

 

[pikazz]

I want to say that her Heel Slide is super punishable even on shield.

as long as you havent done a move and she is approaching you with heel slide, just shield once and attack her before she does the kick or shield. you can like shield and FTilt with Ganon or Shield and FSmash with Cloud

 

[Shuckle_SSB]

I want to say that her Heel Slide is super punishable even on shield.

as long as you havent done a move and she is approaching you with heel slide, just shield once and attack her before she does the kick or shield. you can like shield and FTilt with Ganon or Shield and FSmash with Cloud

The thing about her Heel Slide is that she can do one of two things out of it. 1)Flip Kick OR 2)Nothing. If you try and wait for a stronger punish, you could get flip kicked into a death combo. If you wait too long, she can just act out of her slide.
So, the most optimal thing to do would be to punishimmediately.

 

[SoccerStar9001]

The thing about her Heel Slide is that she can do one of two things out of it. 1)Flip Kick OR 2)Nothing. If you try and wait for a stronger punish, you could get flip kicked into a death combo. If you wait too long, she can just act out of her slide.
So, the most optimal thing to do would be to punishimmediately.

You can see if she is shooting (Held B), but it is kinda hard to react to it.

 

[pikazz]

The thing about her Heel Slide is that she can do one of two things out of it. 1)Flip Kick OR 2)Nothing. If you try and wait for a stronger punish, you could get flip kicked into a death combo. If you wait too long, she can just act out of her slide.
So, the most optimal thing to do would be to punishimmediately.

if she does the heel slide in front of your face, you can shield it as its only one hitbox and not multi ones. so block the only hitbox and attack her before she can even do something, you have more than a half second before she can move, with or without kick.

 

[Shuckle_SSB]

What I'm saying is not law. Do whatever you think it the best option.

I'm just stating my personal thoughts on what is most optimal. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

[Clock Tower Prison]

S Shuckle_SSB your advice is going to be ignored by the salt ridden fail bads who complain about Bayo and they will no doubt come in to tell you that Bayo can't be punished and this thread will turn into a #banonetta #nerfBayo.

Anyway I like to grab her just before the kick comes out when she is heel sliding.

 

[Shuckle_SSB]

S Shuckle_SSB your advice is going to be ignored by the salt ridden fail bads who complain about Bayo and they will no doubt come in to tell you that Bayo can't be punished and this thread will turn into a #banonetta #nerfBayo.

Anyway I like to grab her just before the kick comes out when she is heel sliding.

Yeah, I feel. I don't think he is a salty witch hater though. Just doesn't know about how quickly Bayo can act out of not flip kicking.

Grabbing is good. Somewhat situational depending on how she crosses up your shield. With a quick grab though it can be a solid punish. Especially with a KO throw.

 

[blackghost]

Yeah, I feel. I don't think he is a salty witch hater though. Just doesn't know about how quickly Bayo can act out of not flip kicking.

Grabbing is good. Somewhat situational depending on how she crosses up your shield. With a quick grab though it can be a solid punish. Especially with a KO throw.

she goes the full slide she cannot shorten or lengthen it. if you have the correct spacing you can grab her. also on thekick only the first leg has a hitbox. the secind doesnt.
but when fighting bayo if you are in doubt just hold shield. there's nothing she can do. do a lot of walking (not running)
when she is coming back from using b move in the air. wait for her to hit the ground and land before starting a punish.

 

[CreamyFatone]

I'd just like to mention that it's not a good idea to invoke the salt from other salt threads into this one by talking about it.

With that said, there are some characters who have ranged attacks that rival Bayonetta's disjointed moves, and spacing them against her will force her to respect you in neutral. Shulk, Bowser, Corrin come to mind. For other characters, you are pretty much forced to remain defensive and conservative until she makes a move. The neutral game in this case should really be understood as a guessing game in which she will either commit to grounded side-b which can be grabbed, a dive kick which can bounce off shield and result in her getting pressure on landing, an aerial which can be shielded or even shield grabbed if positioned offensively, or pokes with jab or d-tilt which can be beaten out by moves with better range and priority.

Realize ahead of time that your punishes on Bayonetta will not be as big as hers because Sakurai and you can't really edge guard her because Sakurai, but don't get frustrated. The fact that Bayonetta forces you to change your playstyle is probably a significant reason for her strength in the meta right now. Do not give her this advantage. Play to win.

Realize that most of your punishes will come from mistakes made by the Bayonetta player in situations that were completely under their control. For example, Bayonetta can avoid getting punished for hitting your shield with a b move in the air by using another b move to get out. However, this decision increases her landing lag, increasing her potential punish if she gets caught. Because of the design of this, the nature of a Bayonetta stuck in the air becomes somewhat predictable, as they'll either run away from you completely, forcing them to land hard unless they reach a ledge, or they'll try to land while attacking you, hoping you drop shield or aren't prepared to punish them for this. She has a lot of mixups in this interaction, and all of them lose to holding shield.

In summary, put the Bayonetta above you and spend that shield. Then pick her up and throw her above you again. As she is now, I wouldn't even suggest edgeguarding her unless you can hard read her doublejump and gimp her.

When you get a grab or setup on Bayonetta, realize that there is a game to be played with Bat Within that can extend or shorten your punish on her. Bat Within is slow, so if you hit her with an attack that has low endlag you can catch her out of Bat Within. As far as I can tell, she ends up as far as her momentum would take her without her getting hit, so you usually know where she'll end up if she Bat Withins, making it either a get out of jail free card for her or a frame trap exclusive to her. You should never go for combos that do not hit while she is in hitstun, except as a mixup. In general, you should never attack her while she is in a neutral state, threaten grab. Go for trades.

The part of this that makes it difficult is when she starts baiting attacks from you so she can get Witch Time. When she is in kill percent, you can't just kill her. Once again, she has to make the mistake that you are ready for.

Might add more later, when I have time.

 

[Shuckle_SSB]

she goes the full slide she cannot shorten or lengthen it. if you have the correct spacing you can grab her. also on thekick only the first leg has a hitbox. the secind doesnt.
but when fighting bayo if you are in doubt just hold shield. there's nothing she can do. do a lot of walking (not running)
when she is coming back from using b move in the air. wait for her to hit the ground and land before starting a punish.

The back of her kick hits as well though. It's a deceptively large hitbox. If she does not hold the button while doing a grounded side B, if you wait in your shield for too long she can grab you very quickly after she finishes just her slide. If you drop your shield though thinking she is vulnerable and try to punish, then you get heel kicked, that could very well be your stock.

Just punish with what you know is guaranteed, or go with your reads on whether she'll only slide, or kick too. Do what seems best for you. I am only stating what I see as the most optimal punish, a quick, guaranteed one.

 

[blackghost]

The back of her kick hits as well though. It's a deceptively large hitbox. If she does not hold the button while doing a grounded side B, if you wait in your shield for too long she can grab you very quickly after she finishes just her slide. If you drop your shield though thinking she is vulnerable and try to punish, then you get heel kicked, that could very well be your stock.

Just punish with what you know is guaranteed, or go with your reads on whether she'll only slide, or kick too. Do what seems best for you. I am only stating what I see as the most optimal punish, a quick, guaranteed one.

when she slides you know if she is holding the button or not based on if her guns are firing or not. bayonetta isnt a character where you can go on a forum and learn optimal punishes from others you have to observe and react to her. she destroys flowchart play. you really shouldnt be dying from a heel slide like ever off the top. dtilt and divekick are the scary moves.

 

[CreamyFatone]

The other thing is that a lot of people consider Bayonetta's recovery to be un-edgeguardable. It isn't.

If you hit her far enough to the point where she needs to double jump, look for that and try to take it. It's the only point where she's not covered by hitboxes. She'll either jump immediately after the first Witch Twist, wait a bit, or cancel into the second one, which can usually be punished for its lack of ledge snap. If you have an item you can just try to throw it down at her to take the jump. This is also true for ABK, as items go right through it. In fact, you can just spike her out of ABK if you read it. The biggest weakness of her recovery is that it is predictable. Also, if she ABKs into the wall, she'll flip right in front of the ledge, so if you can bait it out by dropping and then jumping back to ledge, she'll be hanging right in front of you. Or you can bair her if you just jump.

This applies in neutral as well, ABK is really punishable with a fast aerial if you bait it out and jump over it. Most of neutral against Bayonetta involves baiting her unless you have a projectile game. The main threat when trying to punish is always going to be panic Witch Twist, so you really need to know the frame data on that and how fast she can act out of her ABK and other moves.

when she slides you know if she is holding the button or not based on if her guns are firing or not. bayonetta isnt a character where you can go on a forum and learn optimal punishes from others you have to observe and react to her. she destroys flowchart play. you really shouldnt be dying from a heel slide like ever off the top. dtilt and divekick are the scary moves.

This, totally. Bayonetta has the tools to punish everything, but has built-in ways that she can be punished once you know exactly how. It's a matchup where you can't rely on a guaranteed follow-up game, you have to get inside the head of the Bayonetta player to win.

 

[blackghost]

once you know what to punish she becomes an incredible predictable character. is she still scary? yes. same as dk and bowser and others but her gameplay and gamplan are at its core extremely basic. and long term thats why she will struggle to actually get results.