Ike vs MK?

[Meneil]

Hey guys, I apologize if this is listed somewhere I cannot find, but I am unable to find any information regarding the Ike vs MK match-up. I can't even find youtube videos of reputable Ikes vs reputable MKs. And unfortunately talking to my Ike friends has given me little more information than "Ike vs MK sucks". The lack of information on the match-up is somewhat disturbing considering that you are much likely to face a high tier character at a tournament.

So I guess first of all, I was wondering if someone could link me to either a match-up discussion and/or videos of Ike vs MK, preferably not friendlies, ideally of at least one match offline and a different match online.

If no match-up discussion exists I guess we can start one here. =/ pool all our experiences together and hopefully get somewhere, I realize it is a difficult match-up to discuss. Ok, thanks.

 

[FrznSaber]

The Ike vs MK match up is futile IMO.

Advantages Ike has over MK are:
-Range
-Sheer Strength

But weaknesses that MK can exploit are:
-The post lag on some of Ike's moves
-Recovery

Your options are:

• Space like your life depended on it
• Stick to your quicker moves such as jabs and Nair
• Avoid being knocked of stage
• Don't chase him off stage unless you're confident enough
• Pray to whatever god you believe in that his controller malfunctions or just trips into an Fsmash

 

[A2ZOMG]

Well Ike vs MK does suck. It's pretty straightforward. MK zones the crap out of Ike. There is almost nothing Ike can throw out that isn't punishable on reaction, which means the entire time you have to bait and punish mistakes. Against a conservative player who takes few risks, the matchup is nothing less than insanely frustrating.

Not helping much either is MK's edgeguarding...one good hit from a D-air offstage, you probably won't make it back.

There really aren't any tricks to this matchup (maybe a random grab release? idk). Ike just simply lacks the tools to safely or reliably do anything against Metaknight.

This matchup however is fine on wifi, where Ike's F-air and other stuff is a viable for poking when input lag makes it impossible for most players to punish.

 

[Teh Future]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7tL4AO--9pQ

 

[Nysyarc]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7tL4AO--9pQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f3rDY0b_0jY

 

[theeboredone]

Gawd, after playing Dojo's MK at HOBO, PikaPika's MK is laughable to watch. He is so slow. Slow MKs are easier for Ike to handle than fast aggro MKs (Dojo). Not stupid aggro, but a smart aggro in which he is able to pressure Ike into being hasty and making mistakes (as evidenced by that Mr. Doom vs DOJO vid).

 

[Meneil]

I completely agree that the match-up is terrible, however I don't think it warrants such a lack of moral.

Thanks FallenTwilight for the advice, kind of knew all that though tbh.

The videos were EXTREMELY helpful, thank you Future and Nysyarc. Watching San punish Shuttle Loop with Ike's Bair was sexy.

Admittedly the only noteworthy MK main I have played on occasion is FornaX, so most of my observations come from a single player and hence may be flawed; please correct me if I'm wrong.

Here is the accumulation of what I've learned playing FornaX & watching those videos:

• All of Ike's aerials chop through MK's tornado
• A well-spaced Nair cannot be punished by MK unless power shielded; Ike can follow up with jabs at low percents
• Fair CAN be punished, even if it hits MK, if the MK has low percents
• Good MKs will WAIT for Ike to use a move before coming in to attack; therefor "walling" with Ike is not a good idea; you should only use moves that you intend to hit MK with or if you have some other sort of spacing plan
• Ike should reset his spacing as much as possible, since he out ranges MK but MK beats him in speed
• "Aggro but smart" MKs will try to make Ike mess up his spacing, as evidenced in Dojo vs. Mr. Doom
• While MK juggles Ike in the air, there is really nothing Ike can do other than to try escaping... But if the spacing is right, a surprise-Ike Dair can hit MK, or in Dojo vs. Mr. Doom's case, kill MK early
• Probably goes without saying but you should never roll around MK at an edge... San went up and beyond just avoiding MK's dsmash; he short hopped an air dodge and punished with jabs

In short I guess I am looking for things to do and not do in certain circumstances. Or at least be aware of my opponent's strategy.

 

[Kimchi]

Try not to approach too much against MK, because Ike's approaches against MK are terrible with the exception of probably Nair and short hop aerial dodge. If you find an opportunity to use Fair ever, it's probably better to use Nair or if you want to Fair, then fast fall it and get ready to jab if MK tries to punish you. The problem here of course is racking up damage safely and recovering. If you're sent flying and you're forced to use your double jump to recover, two situations can occur: a) MK's waiting on stage or b) MK went offstage and is trying to gimp you. With option b, Aether at the point where you know you'll grab the ledge before MK tries to Dair/Nair you. SA frames will hopefully save you. If MK went with a, you're left with a little tiny room for error, but make sure to Aether early enough so he won't just go offstage and Dair you or edgehog your Aether. If you're recovering high, save your second jump and try to find a moment where MK goes out too far to try to gimp you and use Dair to try to spike him.

Retreating Nairs/Bairs are incredibly useful in this matchup, because those are the only two moves that MK can't punish if spaced correctly and jab comes out faster after both Nair/Bair than jabs after using Fair. Jab to rack up damage against MK. Killing moves are best reserved to Utilt, especially Jab -> Utilt, Bair, Uairs, and situational Fairs. You can also use Usmash to punish MK's aerial dodge.

Overall, this is a matchup where you have to try to play a perfect game. Any little screw-up against MK and you're going to eat up damage so quickly by MK's speed game and chances for you to be sent offstage are always present.

 

[Rykoshet]

Pikapika's MK is honestly a joke compared to what MK is truly capable of. It is, in practice, ike's single worst matchup and I've convinced both ren and kirk of this (granted they had to deal with it personally to come to said conclusions). Ike can and should beat olimar before he should even touch MK. MK can challenge your nair, off the ground, with a shuttle loop and win the exchange if they see it coming meaning at higher percents you dont HAVE an aerial approach on MK, this is ignoring the fact that ike didn't have an aerial approach on MK to begin with. Out of shield all MK really has to do is block the nair and the obvious and invariably following jab and then just punish ike for it. If ike does anything BUT jab afterward all of MK's OOS options win, sorry.

 

[A2ZOMG]

If you don't space N-air perfectly, he can Up-B out of shield. Besides, his F-airs outrange it keep in mind.

 

[Palpi]

I play stupid aggro bored haha.

 

[fragbait]

Gawd, after playing Dojo's MK at HOBO, PikaPika's MK is laughable to watch. He is so slow. Slow MKs are easier for Ike to handle than fast aggro MKs (Dojo). Not stupid aggro, but a smart aggro in which he is able to pressure Ike into being hasty and making mistakes (as evidenced by that Doom vs DOJO vid).

It's Mr. Doom.
GET IT RIGHT!

 

[theeboredone]

It's Mr. Doom.
GET IT RIGHT!

My apologies. I should have known better. I will fix that now.

 

[Affinity]

I completely agree that the match-up is terrible, however I don't think it warrants such a lack of moral.

Thanks FallenTwilight for the advice, kind of knew all that though tbh.

The videos were EXTREMELY helpful, thank you Future and Nysyarc. Watching San punish Shuttle Loop with Ike's Bair was sexy.

Admittedly the only noteworthy MK main I have played on occasion is FornaX, so most of my observations come from a single player and hence may be flawed; please correct me if I'm wrong.

Here is the accumulation of what I've learned playing FornaX & watching those videos:

• All of Ike's aerials chop through MK's tornado
• A well-spaced Nair cannot be punished by MK unless power shielded; Ike can follow up with jabs at low percents
• Fair CAN be punished, even if it hits MK, if the MK has low percents
• Good MKs will WAIT for Ike to use a move before coming in to attack; therefor "walling" with Ike is not a good idea; you should only use moves that you intend to hit MK with or if you have some other sort of spacing plan
• Ike should reset his spacing as much as possible, since he out ranges MK but MK beats him in speed
• "Aggro but smart" MKs will try to make Ike mess up his spacing, as evidenced in Dojo vs. Mr. Doom
• While MK juggles Ike in the air, there is really nothing Ike can do other than to try escaping... But if the spacing is right, a surprise-Ike Dair can hit MK, or in Dojo vs. Mr. Doom's case, kill MK early
• Probably goes without saying but you should never roll around MK at an edge... San went up and beyond just avoiding MK's dsmash; he short hopped an air dodge and punished with jabs

In short I guess I am looking for things to do and not do in certain circumstances. Or at least be aware of my opponent's strategy.

Who's FornaX?

 

[BluePeachy100]

The Ike vs MK match up is futile IMO.

Advantages Ike has over MK are:
-Range
-Sheer Strength

But weaknesses that MK can exploit are:
-The post lag on some of Ike's moves
-Recovery

Your options are:

• Space like your life depended on it
• Stick to your quicker moves such as jabs and Nair
• Avoid being knocked of stage
• Don't chase him off stage unless you're confident enough
• Pray to whatever god you believe in that his controller malfunctions or just trips into an Fsmash

Cross, you forget, play an Mk worst than you. If you Draw m2k, Affinity, Dojo, Atomsk, or Tyrant. Forfeit the match.

 

[Meneil]

Try not to approach too much against MK, because Ike's approaches against MK are terrible with the exception of probably Nair and short hop aerial dodge. If you find an opportunity to use Fair ever, it's probably better to use Nair or if you want to Fair, then fast fall it and get ready to jab if MK tries to punish you. The problem here of course is racking up damage safely and recovering. If you're sent flying and you're forced to use your double jump to recover, two situations can occur: a) MK's waiting on stage or b) MK went offstage and is trying to gimp you. With option b, Aether at the point where you know you'll grab the ledge before MK tries to Dair/Nair you. SA frames will hopefully save you. If MK went with a, you're left with a little tiny room for error, but make sure to Aether early enough so he won't just go offstage and Dair you or edgehog your Aether. If you're recovering high, save your second jump and try to find a moment where MK goes out too far to try to gimp you and use Dair to try to spike him.

Retreating Nairs/Bairs are incredibly useful in this matchup, because those are the only two moves that MK can't punish if spaced correctly and jab comes out faster after both Nair/Bair than jabs after using Fair. Jab to rack up damage against MK. Killing moves are best reserved to Utilt, especially Jab -> Utilt, Bair, Uairs, and situational Fairs. You can also use Usmash to punish MK's aerial dodge.

Overall, this is a matchup where you have to try to play a perfect game. Any little screw-up against MK and you're going to eat up damage so quickly by MK's speed game and chances for you to be sent offstage are always present.

Thanks Kimchi, I'll try that out. Now I just need need to find an MK to practice against. ^^;

Who's FornaX?

Doubt anyone would know lol.

 

[bladeboys]

Fornaxx is a french player who mains MK (maybe I'm wrong but i've already seen this name somewhere on a french forum)

 

[Mew2King]

don't use Ike vs Metaknight

 

[bladeboys]

Yea, he's right lol
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=llURusqCQhM

M2K is too good haha. He didn't kill Crash o) Have u seen any jab for Ike ? Have u seen any Dash Attack for MK ? ._.

 

[-RedX-]

Holy **** M2K posted in Ike boards.
Holy **** again at that vid lmfao

 

[theeboredone]

Yea, he's right lol
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=llURusqCQhM

M2K is too good haha. He didn't kill Crash o) Have u seen any jab for Ike ? Have u seen any Dash Attack for MK ? ._.

I dunno what to say...In his defense, I think that Ike player knew he was gonna lose so he just messed around.

I thought M2K would 0 Death 3 stock him, but I guess those Aether shenanigans threw him off.

 

[benaji261!]

Holy **** M2K posted in Ike boards.
Holy **** again at that vid lmfao

I second this post.

 

[Meneil]

Fornaxx is a french player who mains MK (maybe I'm wrong but i've already seen this name somewhere on a french forum)

He's from Canada, but a part that speaks French I think, so... I guess? ^^; And I actually got linked to that video today before you did, lol, it's worth rewatching though. I can only imagine m2K's reaction in rl

don't use Ike vs Metaknight

That's like me telling you to stop playing MK against Ike. Different reasons why you wouldn't do that, but the result is the same: neither of us change. So I'm going to stubbornly try to find strategies that may or may not exist. Don't imagine you'd be willing to help me with the match-up? Wifi or rl, since I've heard you're attending Most Angriest Shinobi in Feb...

I thought this thread was going to die after my last post, thanks M2K for reviving it? lol

 

[bladeboys]

I dunno what to say...In his defense, I think that Ike player knew he was gonna lose so he just messed around.

I thought M2K would 0 Death 3 stock him, but I guess those Aether shenanigans threw him off.

No offense I was just laughing, I'll never tell someone he sucks, because I suck o)

@Meneil : I asked my friend, you're right ^^

 

[Rykoshet]

That's like me telling you to stop playing MK against Ike.

Except for the fact that there are actual reasons why one would not use ike against meta knight and those very same reasons are why someone WOULD use meta knight against ike. It's not a matter of stubbornness, it's just understanding the game for what it is and not making something ridiculously harder than it has to be. Ike is capable of fighting plenty of characters that have notable and visible advantages against him, but the extreme bottom line is that they all have issues that ike CAN exploit if he manages to put them in specific situations (olimar, dedede, and falco all have terrible recoveries that can either be spiked, harassed with back air and put in the same situation, or up aired and killed out of respectively) meta knight HAS no such exploitable flaws for ike and trying to create them is like fitting a square peg into a round hole.

It's not taking a knife to a gun fight, it's taking a salt shaker to a gun fight and saying if you were just good enough that the salt shaker would win.

 

[theeboredone]

I was going to rant on Meneil's post but Ryko took care of it...yep.

I would like to add though that if you are using Ike only in tournaments out of stubborness, especially against the tougher match ups, then you aren't playing the game for the right reasons IMO.

 

[-RedX-]

It's not taking a knife to a gun fight, it's taking a salt shaker to a gun fight and saying if you were just good enough that the salt shaker would win.

Sig'd this if you don't mind LOL

 

[Rykoshet]

Credit goes to eazy, it's a quote regarding low/high tiers tbh.

 

[benaji261!]

Sig'd this if you don't mind LOL

****it you beat me to it. (D)

 

[Deoxyribonucleic_acid]

LMFAO, We have like an 80:20 advantage against you guys. It's hopeless.

 

[Meneil]

Except for the fact that there are actual reasons why one would not use ike against meta knight and those very same reasons are why someone WOULD use meta knight against ike. It's not a matter of stubbornness, it's just understanding the game for what it is and not making something ridiculously harder than it has to be. Ike is capable of fighting plenty of characters that have notable and visible advantages against him, but the extreme bottom line is that they all have issues that ike CAN exploit if he manages to put them in specific situations (olimar, dedede, and falco all have terrible recoveries that can either be spiked, harassed with back air and put in the same situation, or up aired and killed out of respectively) meta knight HAS no such exploitable flaws for ike and trying to create them is like fitting a square peg into a round hole.

It's not taking a knife to a gun fight, it's taking a salt shaker to a gun fight and saying if you were just good enough that the salt shaker would win.

I would like to add though that if you are using Ike only in tournaments out of stubborness, especially against the tougher match ups, then you aren't playing the game for the right reasons IMO.

And what reasons would those be? At this point I'm fairly certain that none of us here are using Ike because they think he's the "best" character ever. However, that's not going to stop me from trying to play Ike to his fullest potential. I would like to play Ike at the top of his game, even if that isn't good enough to win the set. I prefer to blame my own lack of skill instead of character's abilities first, not the other way around; although both obviously affect the outcome of the match.

There are no absolutes in brawl because very few people have reached the highest potential with their characters; and it is impossible to play perfect. I would prefer to know all the tools to my advantage even if it only has a 20% chance of working, instead of giving up as soon as my opponent selects MK and playing a terrible match.

Just saying, it's disappointing to see how few Ikes are even willing to put up a fight.

 

[FrznSaber]

Don't get us wrong, when it comes down to discussion, MK destroys us in every way possible. But when it comes down to actually facing one in a tournament match we give it our all, at least most of us do anyway.

 

[Akashi]

Don't get us wrong, when it comes down to discussion, MK destroys us in every way possible. But when it comes down to actually facing one in a tournament match we give it our all, at least most of us do anyway.

I agree

 

[theeboredone]

And what reasons would those be? At this point I'm fairly certain that none of us here are using Ike because they think he's the "best" character ever. However, that's not going to stop me from trying to play Ike to his fullest potential. I would like to play Ike at the top of his game, even if that isn't good enough to win the set. I prefer to blame my own lack of skill instead of character's abilities first, not the other way around; although both obviously affect the outcome of the match.

There are no absolutes in brawl because very few people have reached the highest potential with their characters; and it is impossible to play perfect. I would prefer to know all the tools to my advantage even if it only has a 20% chance of working, instead of giving up as soon as my opponent selects MK and playing a terrible match.

Just saying, it's disappointing to see how few Ikes are even willing to put up a fight.

When I meant that using Ike out of stubbornness is playing the game for all the wrong reasons, there should be other reasons that out priortize what you are saying...

1. It's just a game.
2. I do my best with Ike because I want to be good with him.
3. It's just a game.
4. I like the challenge.
5. If I do good, awesome. If not, oh well, just a game.
6. Did I say that it's just a game?
7. Money? If it comes, yay, if not, it's w/e.

With this all being said, I could care less if my disadvantage is 80:20, but that doesn't mean I'll still do my best with Ike. It's not stubbornness that's making me use him, it's just the whole "I don't care if I lose, cause I never planned to win it all anyways, but I still want to do my best."

It's kinda like my education, I know I ain't gonna be the number one student on my campus, so I could care less about that, but that doesn't stop me from doing my best.

 

[bladeboys]

When I meant that using Ike out of stubbornness is playing the game for all the wrong reasons, there should be other reasons that out priortize what you are saying...

1. It's just a game.
2. I do my best with Ike because I want to be good with him.
3. It's just a game.
4. I like the challenge.
5. If I do good, awesome. If not, oh well, just a game.
6. Did I say that it's just a game?
7. Money? If it comes, yay, if not, it's w/e.

With this all being said, I could care less if my disadvantage is 80:20, but that doesn't mean I'll still do my best with Ike. It's not stubbornness that's making me use him, it's just the whole "I don't care if I lose, cause I never planned to win it all anyways, but I still want to do my best."

It's kinda like my education, I know I ain't gonna be the number one student on my campus, so I could care less about that, but that doesn't stop me from doing my best.

Bored is right. I totally agree (but I think Ike is the best ).

 

[benaji261!]

It's kinda like my education, I know I ain't gonna be the number one student on my campus, so I could care less about that, but that doesn't stop me from doing my best.

I'm gonna sig this quote.