In depth guide to matchups.

[castorpollux]

i always thought dittos should be 10-0 cuz 10/10 times the character wins and 10/10 times the character loses.

the matches are about player wins than character wins. bad troll is bad

 

[Choice]

ok i'm not 100% certain on this but i just tested the wario cg and at 166% i was no longer to start with dthrow being fresh. thats not accounting for a wolf buffering shine though.

 

[Karcist]

45-55 against MK? What stages are you taking into account? MK kills Wolf on most CP's. It's hard enough to stop MK's momentum on neutrals.

Also, I think Wolf vs. Olimar is 55/45-60/40 in favor of Wolf. Lasers/priority > Olimar.

 

[castorpollux]

45-55 against MK? What stages are you taking into account? MK kills Wolf on most CP's. It's hard enough to stop MK's momentum on neutrals.

with that logic, mk has an advantage over every character in the game (which can very well be true)

 

[Seagull Joe]

Seagull, you can't SDI tornado.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6kAX5O1ftpo

You can with Wolf. Not Dk.

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=281878

It depends on the character's airdodge. Wolf's is long and he falls relatively fast, so he CAN get out of nado. Someone like Peach's airdodge is super short and she can AD, but can't get fully out of nado.

 

[castorpollux]

You can with Wolf. Not Dk.

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=281878

It depends on the character's airdodge. Wolf's is long and he falls relatively fast, so he CAN get out of nado. Someone like Peach's airdodge is super short and she can AD, but can't get fully out of nado.

you can't SDI tornado, but i guess there's a way to "properly" DI it.

Huge difference

 

[Choice]

yea, what jj said.

SDI =/= DI, which is what that thread is talking about and what you should be doing whenever you are being tornado'd.

 

[Seagull Joe]

Regardless, nado isn't even a huge problem. Wolf's laser's hilt beats it even. You can bair the top. Etc...

 

[_Kain_]

Regardless, nado isn't even a huge problem. Wolf's laser's hilt beats it even. You can bair the top. Etc...

Laser isn't very reliable for stoppin nado. It can, but if u miss, have fun gettin hit by it. Lag too good

 

[tekkie]

also a close tornado will hit before the laser comes out and they can gtfo before you can hit them

 

[castorpollux]

Regardless, nado isn't even a huge problem. Wolf's laser's hilt beats it even. You can bair the top. Etc...

dam, tornado is a bad move

70:30 wofl

 

[Seagull Joe]

Laser isn't very reliable for stoppin nado. It can, but if u miss, have fun gettin hit by it. Lag too good

I just powershield nado and tilt shield up almost everytime unless I'm in the process of running away in which I RAR laser.

I'm sure you probably do the same.

dam, tornado is a bad move

70:30 wofl

It's not bad, there are just ways around it.

 

[Zync]

Its really bad when the MK tries to time you out

 

[Choice]

shine stops tornado a whole lot easier and so does up b.

 

[Seagull Joe]

shine stops tornado a whole lot easier and so does up b.

What?!?!?!?

 

[castorpollux]

What?!?!?!?

-_- everything stops tornado if u hit the right spot. even wolf flash can hit tornado if it hits the right spot

 

[Seagull Joe]

-_- everything stops tornado if u hit the right spot. even wolf flash can hit tornado if it hits the right spot

I thought he literally meant up b nado from the side. I already knew everything beats it from the top.

 

[Goldenadept]

thats the missing strategy us wolfs have been missing from our MU against MK

we all got wolf flash through their tornado's.

so will a falling nair from the top stop nado? i dont think i'd ever use it but it'd be fun to play around with

 

[castorpollux]

thats the missing strategy us wolfs have been missing from our MU against MK

we all got wolf flash through their tornado's.

so will a falling nair from the top stop nado? i dont think i'd ever use it but it'd be fun to play around with

i've nair->dsmashed a metaknight who was in his tornado before lol

(i actually think i have it on video somewhere on my computer)

 

[Goldenadept]

hmmm, against a grounded nado if you daired the MK into the ground he'd be put into the stumble/trip animation right? where he's lying on the ground.
if they dont do anything immediatly (although they probably will) you can jab,ftilt, fsmash,etc

this is all really obvious but i've been playing around with dair a lot recently and noticed that.

 

[Choice]

up b from most angles on the top wins.

 

[MegaRobMan]

I would love an explanation on Sonic.

70-30

Hello, MegaRobMan, the lone wolf in Nebraska. We don't really have a lot of competitive smashers, but we are developing the scene. Unfortunately, at moment the only characters I feel I have higher-level metagame experience with are D3 (Tyser), Sonic (Trent), Yoshi (DarkYosh) and Peach (Sme3sh), so I can only give ratings for those 4 (and decent explainations for 2). I do play against some of Iowa but not enough to be useful. I mean, I could tell you how to beat my casual friends who play just about every character, but that kind of advice will get you killed!

Sonic: 65-35. Trent hates this match up a lot, but 70 is a little redick. I also have experience against an above average sonic named mushroomring, but he has problems with laser camping, like I'm sure a lot of the sonics yall face do. Ban Yoshi's immediately, your lazer only works 35% of the time here because of the weird slope, making his spin-dash actually a valuable weapon. Picto-chat is another bad stage (seriously, stage picking makes or breaks this match up.) Otherwise your laser destroys his approach so long as he isn't baiting a laser into powersheild-grab, so watch your range. Shining the dash-attack will get you grabbed. Your bair trumps his so long as his isn't coming out a few frames earlier, but you should be spacing with laser and fairing when he doesn't expect it. Sonic won't go aggro on the approach unless you are a stock _+1 laser shot ahead, but when sonic goes aggro you should be predicting aerial attacks into jumpshine-fairing him. Also sometimes sonic doesn't think about ledge recovery and will fair into your sheild after using their spring. I think you know the drill (grab release). As far as stage picks, I found sonic's hate Brinstar, but the only time I took Trent here I lost because I got majorly outsmarted by the middle of the stage spreading So I'd say Smashville so you don't Wolficide yourself under PS1 or FD.

Yoshi: 65-35. Ugh, pivotgrabbing is really annoying here and for some odd reason most of the times I get killed is by Yoshi's grounded butt bomb because my appraoch becomes too predictable. Your Laser is great for about 2 shots in a row here, but eggs are pretty good at damaging wolf. Sometimes reflecting the eggs works out, but if the Yoshi gets smart he'll angle his eggs to bait your shine into an upsmash or grab if that's the better punish. Bair and fair beat everything yoshi can do in the air unless he's under you, then shine that tailwhip.

Peach: 60-40. For some odd reason I find wolf has an easier time camping her than a lot of characters. Facing forward jumping backwards and shooting a laser at whatever height you expect him to be at in .5 seconds seems to work great if they like to float a lot and Over-B, if used sparingly, actually WORKS against this character whenever I try to use it. Laser spam and bair are great in this match. Fair is great for killing peach, btw. But it should be said that when I played Nicole's peach 3 months ago in friendlies I got wrecked, so it may just be adapting to this style of peach.

D3: 3-7, but I think 45-55 is possible if Tyser wasn't inside my head. I'm terrible at this match up so I'd rather read what you all have to say then contribute. But powersheilding ruins bair spacing a lot and make sure to only laser while in the air due to said power sheilding. I'm learning the reverse blaster but it's not tournament ready.

 

[Goldenadept]

omg a new wolf has appeared! imma catch him with an ultra ball :3

nice to meet ya feller from nebraska :D stop by the wolf social and chat with us when more ppl are on. atm i think i might be the only one v_v

 

[Kaffei]

Can someone tell me why MK vs Wolf is 45:55

 

[Goldenadept]

i think its mostly in part because wolf has his blaster and shine, they both allow him to stop MK from using nado and shine allows him to escape strings/traps/random shuttle loops from MK. not a lot of characters have that sort of lee way against mk.

wolfs high air speed also helps him get away from MK pretty well thanks to mk's awful air speed. with good DI mk has a bit of trouble killing wolf (aside from gimps) and wolf can kill mk fairly soon.

i personally dont think its that even but its not worse than 60/40 imo

 

[Choice]

Can someone tell me why MK vs Wolf is 45:55

dam, tornado is a bad move

70:30 wofl

i think that explains it all.

 

[Gadiel_VaStar]

If these matchups are correct, then there is no waay Wolf can't be B tier as I previously thought. MK is probably around 60:40, but I can see how you say it's 55:45. It still averages to 60:40, so there's no difference, lol.

 

[.AC.]

if tornado is hitting your shield from above, you can shield drop and shine before the tornado hits you.

/pro tip.

 

[Deleted member]

If these matchups are correct, then there is no waay Wolf can't be B tier as I previously thought. MK is probably around 60:40, but I can see how you say it's 55:45. It still averages to 60:40, so there's no difference, lol.

I am honestly thoroughly convinced that Wolf is the most under-estimated character in the game.

 

[Laem]

if tornado is hitting your shield from above, you can shield drop and shine before the tornado hits you.

/pro tip.

every move in the game has IASA frames around the ending animation if the next action is a buffered Marth UpB

trufax.