Is Peach's FC Nair Maximally +3 on Shield?

[Sycorax]

So I'm testing out some shield pressure stuff with Peach in Debug mode, and I'm having some trouble getting perfect FC aerials on shield. For a long time, it has been common knowledge that Peach can achieve +4 advantage on shield with all of her aerials except dair. However, in testing with debug and develop mode, I am unable to achieve +4 advantage for FC Nair and Bair. Specifically when performing a nair or bair from float on an opponent's shield, I always get 1 frame of animation between exiting shield hitlag and landing. This makes me get only +3 nairs and bairs on shield. I can't seem to land directly after the hitlag ends. If I do a FC nair or bair without hitting an opponent's shield I can land on the frame after the first hitbox comes out, no problem. Hitting shield seems to slow my descent. I'm not having this problem with fair and uair. If I start falling 2 frames before the hitbox comes out on Fair and Uair and I connect with shield, I'll land directly after hitlag and get the +4 advantage. If I input falling 2 frames before bair or nair come out and I connect with shield, I'll get only +3 advantage. I made sure none of my moves are stale when used. Here is a table of my inputs.

+-------+------------+-------------+----------+-------------+-----------+
| Frame | Controller | Peach's .. | Animation | Fox's ..... | Animation |
| Count | Inputs ... | Animation .| Frame ... | Animation . | Frame ... |
+-------+------------+------------+-----------+-------------+-----------+
| ... 0 | X, down .. | Wait1 .... | whatever .| Guard ..... | -1 ...... |
| ... 1 | X, down .. | Kneebend . | 0 ....... | Guard ..... | -1 ...... |
| ... 2 | X, down .. | Kneebend . | 1 ....... | Guard ..... | -1 ...... |
| ... 3 | X, down .. | Kneebend . | 2 ....... | Guard ..... | -1 ...... |
| ... 4 | X, down .. | Kneebend . | 3 ....... | Guard ..... | -1 ...... |
| ... 5 | X, down .. | Kneebend . | 4 ....... | Guard ..... | -1 ...... |
| ... 6 | X, down .. | JumpF .... | 0 ....... | Guard ..... | -1 ...... |
| ... 7 | A ........ | 295(float) | 0 ....... | Guard ..... | -1 ...... |
| ... 8 | Down ..... | AttackAirN | 1 ....... | Guard ..... | -1 ...... |
| ... 9 | Down ..... | AttackAirN | 2 ....... | Guard ..... | -1 ...... |
| .. 10 | Down ..... | AttackAirN | 3 ....... | GuardDamage | 0 ....... |
| .. 11 | Down ..... | AttackAirN | 3 ....... | GuardDamage | 0 ....... |
| .. 12 | Down ..... | AttackAirN | 3 ....... | GuardDamage | 0 ....... |
| .. 13 | Down ..... | AttackAirN | 3 ....... | GuardDamage | 0 ....... |
| .. 14 | Down ..... | AttackAirN | 3 ....... | GuardDamage | 0 ....... |
| .. 15 | Down ..... | AttackAirN | 3 ....... | GuardDamage | 0 ....... |
| .. 16 | Down ..... | AttackAirN | 3 ....... | GuardDamage | 0 ....... |
| .. 17 | Down ..... | AttackAirN | 4 ....... | GuardDamage | 2.42 .... |
| .. 18 | None ..... | Landing .. | 0 ....... | GuardDamage | 4.04 .... |
+-------+------------+------------+-----------+-------------+-----------+
In the case of FC nair, I don't believe I'm able to start falling any sooner than frame 9 (with the down input on frame 8). In the case of bair, which has more startup, I can change when I start falling. (Keep in mind bair comes out on frame 6) If I input the fall on the same frame as AttackAirB | 3, I will land before the hitbox comes out. If I input the fall on the same frame as AttackAirB | 4, two things can happen. If I hit nothing, the hitbox will be out for 1 frame and then I will land. If I hit a shield, I will spend one frame falling in AttackAirB | 7 and then land.

It seems to me that Peach is not able to get +4 on shield with FC Nair and Bair. I think the people who did the frame analysis just assumed that Peach would be landing directly after the Nair out of float; however, to the best of my ability and understanding, it doesn't seem possible to land the frame after connecting with shield. Also, the shieldstun and hitlag numbers on Peach's hitbox thread are just plain wrong. They to not agree with either StrongBad's knockback calculator or my testing in Develop.

Does anyone have any insight on something I might be missing or is Peach unable to achieve +4 on FC nair and bair?

 

[Sycorax]

I got an answer: http://www.reddit.com/r/SSBM/comments/2yni9f/fc_aerials_on_shield_confusion_x/

 

[Vestboy_Myst]

Thanks, I was curious too. It always helps to re-prove what we know to be sure we know it in the first place.

 

[Sycorax]

"Re-prove"? Not exactly. YoshiPerhapsMan and I tend to agree that +4 Nair on shield is pretty hard unless figure out some specific setup for a specific float height. Further, +4 bair on shield requires floating for a bit so can't be done instantly.

 

[Vestboy_Myst]

you are right, 're-check' would be more what I intended. regardless, good work

 

[Dr3amSm4sher]

Platform drop Instant Float platform cancelled nair should have the +4 advantage but really hard to do. You could chain them with shield drops to be as good as multishines on shield.

 

[Vestboy_Myst]

Platform drop Instant Float platform cancelled nair should have the +4 advantage but really hard to do. You could chain them with shield drops to be as good as multishines on shield.

yup, here is a gif of what you described. We've yet to hear of anyone who can do this in RTA though, so currently its pretty much TAS exclusive (for now...)
source https://www.reddit.com/r/SSBM/comments/3bcmqq/fastest_float_cancelled_nairs/

 

[Dr3amSm4sher]

Is it even possible to move the stick back to neutral quick enough?? I've done double Platform cancel bairs with falco for fun but that can be done with the cstick and shai drops but this is just a little more inputs. Then again i've done shield drop PC nairs with luigi.... I'm about to go learn this.

 

[Klemes]

yup, here is a gif of what you described. We've yet to hear of anyone who can do this in RTA though, so currently its pretty much TAS exclusive (for now...)
source https://www.reddit.com/r/SSBM/comments/3bcmqq/fastest_float_cancelled_nairs/

This is ... like ... a D-smash made of nairs .... Peachgasm !