Beetle Juice
Smash Journeyman
So I am New York player who mains Bayo that goes by the tag "FFG| Tito" and I have made this thread because I've seen a lot players drop combos because they rush inputs. Before I continue I would like to state a few things:
1. It is common to drop combos, doesn't matter what character and no one is perfect.
2. Bayonetta's combos are indeed DI'able, but there are alternate combo routes, meaning that death combos are 50/50 situations.
3. Bayonetta is indeed a very good character, too good of a character. I understand players frustration playing against her may be something similar to Ice Climbers grab in brawl.
4. Do not hold B on Witch Twist.
Ok now in this topic, I would like to exclude Bayonetta's 0-death combo confirms because they were the day one combos everyone practiced to do and to avoid. I would like to start first with what I will label as death combo1 and death combo2 labeled as followed:
DC1: Grounded ABK/D Tilt > SH Up B > ABK > Up B> ABK > Up Air
DC2: Angled ABK (Aerial) > Up B > ABK > Up B >/ Up Air
Now that we have the abbreviations lets attack about starting percents and weights on when the combo can be initiated:
DC1
Light (Except Ness and Lucas)
Starting Percent: 25% (With and Without Rage)
Ending Percent: 65%-70% (Without Rage), 55%-60% (With Rage)
Medium (Except Cloud with Limit)
Starting Percent: 30% (With and Without Rage)
Ending Percent: 80%-90% (Without Rage), 65%-75 (With Rage)
Heavy (Including Fast Faller and Cloud with limit))
Starting Percent: 40% (With and Without Rage)
Ending Percent: 95%-105% (Without Rage), 90%-95% (With Rage)
Ness and Lucas can not be killed by DC1 UNLESS you input Fair 1> ABK after the SECOND UP B. I also recommend inputing fair on later percents in order to mess up your opponents DI and secure that your opponent will be right above you.
(DI vs Bayo rule of thumb: Go with the twist, Away from the kick.)
DC2
Light
Starting Percent: 45% (Without Rage), 30% (With Rage)
Ending Percent: 80%-85% (Without Rage), 70%-75% (With Rage)
Medium (Except Cloud with Limit)
Starting Percent: 50%-55% (Without Rage)
Ending Percent: 80%-90% (Without Rage), 65%-75 (With Rage)
Heavy (Including Fast Faller and Cloud with limit))
Starting Percent:
60% (Fast Faller and Without Rage), 50% (Fast Faller and With Rage)
55%(Heavy And Without Rage), 45% (Heavy With Rage)
Ending Percent: 105%-120% (Without Rage), 95%-105% (With Rage)
The percentages are not exact in terms of specific characters but they are the overall general percentage on where it will work on all characters based on their weight and fall speed. I recommend to DI towards your opponent after the first ABK of DC2, if your first ABK hits the opponent below the waist, there is a high chance that your opponent can successfully DI away from the combo. Position your kick!
Here is a general rule of thumb for both combos:
DC1
1. Buffer inputs after Heel Slide and heel kick, SH Witch Twist(due to lag from patch).
2. Buffer Last ABK out of second Witch Twist IASA frames (fair for later percents or on Ness and Lucas).
3. In Up Air situation, hold the analog stick upward and towards Bayo's back while hitting C stick up.
4. Second Witch Twist becomes another 50/50 depending whether you will reverse Up B or not.
DC2
1. If Up Air situation, hold the analog towards the direction you are facing and buffer the C Stick upward for IASA frames.
2. Always DI towards your opponent with angled ABK.
Ok now for timing I'm going to keep it general until I post a tutorial on when to do ABK. Witch Twist is 21 Frames, when B is held it becomes 34 frames. At Light and medium weight percents (lets say 30%), a 34 frame barely makes it to continue the combo from going on first Witch Twist. ABK is 32 frames but you will most likely hit them on from 28 on the attack. So just to keep it simple including with hitstun you have a little second to delay your ABK input. For maximum death combo percents you have about half a second.
I'm going to continue this thread tomorrow I have a lot to update here.
1. It is common to drop combos, doesn't matter what character and no one is perfect.
2. Bayonetta's combos are indeed DI'able, but there are alternate combo routes, meaning that death combos are 50/50 situations.
3. Bayonetta is indeed a very good character, too good of a character. I understand players frustration playing against her may be something similar to Ice Climbers grab in brawl.
4. Do not hold B on Witch Twist.
Ok now in this topic, I would like to exclude Bayonetta's 0-death combo confirms because they were the day one combos everyone practiced to do and to avoid. I would like to start first with what I will label as death combo1 and death combo2 labeled as followed:
DC1: Grounded ABK/D Tilt > SH Up B > ABK > Up B> ABK > Up Air
DC2: Angled ABK (Aerial) > Up B > ABK > Up B >/ Up Air
Now that we have the abbreviations lets attack about starting percents and weights on when the combo can be initiated:
DC1
Light (Except Ness and Lucas)
Starting Percent: 25% (With and Without Rage)
Ending Percent: 65%-70% (Without Rage), 55%-60% (With Rage)
Medium (Except Cloud with Limit)
Starting Percent: 30% (With and Without Rage)
Ending Percent: 80%-90% (Without Rage), 65%-75 (With Rage)
Heavy (Including Fast Faller and Cloud with limit))
Starting Percent: 40% (With and Without Rage)
Ending Percent: 95%-105% (Without Rage), 90%-95% (With Rage)
Ness and Lucas can not be killed by DC1 UNLESS you input Fair 1> ABK after the SECOND UP B. I also recommend inputing fair on later percents in order to mess up your opponents DI and secure that your opponent will be right above you.
(DI vs Bayo rule of thumb: Go with the twist, Away from the kick.)
DC2
Light
Starting Percent: 45% (Without Rage), 30% (With Rage)
Ending Percent: 80%-85% (Without Rage), 70%-75% (With Rage)
Medium (Except Cloud with Limit)
Starting Percent: 50%-55% (Without Rage)
Ending Percent: 80%-90% (Without Rage), 65%-75 (With Rage)
Heavy (Including Fast Faller and Cloud with limit))
Starting Percent:
60% (Fast Faller and Without Rage), 50% (Fast Faller and With Rage)
55%(Heavy And Without Rage), 45% (Heavy With Rage)
Ending Percent: 105%-120% (Without Rage), 95%-105% (With Rage)
The percentages are not exact in terms of specific characters but they are the overall general percentage on where it will work on all characters based on their weight and fall speed. I recommend to DI towards your opponent after the first ABK of DC2, if your first ABK hits the opponent below the waist, there is a high chance that your opponent can successfully DI away from the combo. Position your kick!
Timing
Timing and precision is the most important part of landing successful combo in any fighting game, and extremely crucial in order to run a consistent combo heavy Bayonetta. It can make the difference between taking a stock lead, bringing it back or struggling to KO at "Deadzone" percentages. Another important factor is also the consideration of the size of the character you are combo'ing. The point of the timing for these two death combos is to make sure you hit your opponent with the end of ABK after Witch twist, as you will have more than enough time and hitstun to adjust to your opponent's DI (whether you have to jump ABK or not after the first witch twist.)
Here is a general rule of thumb for both combos:
DC1
1. Buffer inputs after Heel Slide and heel kick, SH Witch Twist(due to lag from patch).
2. Buffer Last ABK out of second Witch Twist IASA frames (fair for later percents or on Ness and Lucas).
3. In Up Air situation, hold the analog stick upward and towards Bayo's back while hitting C stick up.
4. Second Witch Twist becomes another 50/50 depending whether you will reverse Up B or not.
DC2
1. If Up Air situation, hold the analog towards the direction you are facing and buffer the C Stick upward for IASA frames.
2. Always DI towards your opponent with angled ABK.
Ok now for timing I'm going to keep it general until I post a tutorial on when to do ABK. Witch Twist is 21 Frames, when B is held it becomes 34 frames. At Light and medium weight percents (lets say 30%), a 34 frame barely makes it to continue the combo from going on first Witch Twist. ABK is 32 frames but you will most likely hit them on from 28 on the attack. So just to keep it simple including with hitstun you have a little second to delay your ABK input. For maximum death combo percents you have about half a second.
I'm going to continue this thread tomorrow I have a lot to update here.
