Killing at High %

[jonaq]

Hello people, im new here on the forum even though I follow since a very long time, but I created this account to ask you a question...
How to you kill your opponent when he his at high % ? (I would say when he is around 130 and more). Down throw sends him to high in the air to do anything... He can jump or air dodge before we can do anything.

I suppose there is no true combo at this high %, so what is in your opinion, the best way to kill at high % with ZSS since we cant juggle him the air...
F-Smash is a no go, this move is not really good i don't like it... Trying to land Back Air ? Trying to mind and set a boost kick ?

(Sorry for my poor english, this is not my native language)

 

[apparently fuz]

At high percents you have kill confirms out of d-smash and Paralyser, in which you can do anything out of them (such as up-b, down-b, f-smash). In terms of d-throw, you have d-throw DJ f-air at very high percents, d-throw DJ b-air at around the 100-130% mark, and d-throw DJ u-air also at high percents. B-air is also a really good option that comes out quick, kills at high percents as well.

 

[jonaq]

Hi Fuzuza! Thank you for your answer.
Can you explain me (or show me links) what is a "DJ" fair/bair ? And how to do it, I really want to improve, thank you

 

[apparently fuz]

Oh, DJ just stands for double jump. But I forgot to mention, from a d-throw you're ought to be doing an instant double jump (or IDJ) in order for the combo to be true, and to be in range of the b-air/f-air. If your opponent DIs inwards, you would do a d-throw turnaround IDJ b-air. If your opponent DIs away, then you would go for a d-throw RAR b-air. If you don't know what a RAR is, it pretty much stands for Reverse Aerial Rush, in which you cancel your turnaround with a jump. It allows you to perform a back aerial quicker than a conventional turnaround, or re-positions you for another aerial, say a u-air.

http://www.ssbwiki.com/RAR

 

[pichuthedk]

depending on the character Upsmash can a reliable kill me and somewhat easy to set up via frame traps or spacing.

If people get mega high like over 155% or something low angled F-tilt can suffice and it's kind of spam-able , Uptilt is good especially on platforms or if you have a decent amount of rage and they are around 115%(135 for heavies)

In all honesty you can set up kills the exact same way as you set up combos in the neutral like grab-> down throw -> up air.

However you would do well to work on not just your bread and butter combos but your crackers and cheese finishers so you can close out their stocks as early as possible.

Things like those FF nairs -> jump canceled down b spikes at around 40%, The down throw ,up air ,up air up b's off the top and the down smash -> jump back -> flip jump kick spikes near the edges at as low as 35% on some characters.

Also regarding what you said at the top I believe IIRC that there is a height cap out from our down throw so you should get the up air if your timing is good.

 

[jonaq]

apparently fuz thank you for the "RAR" trick. I will try it tomorrow
pichuthedk So you are telling me that downthrow up air STILLS works at high % even if my opponent DI away ? To be honest... I've watched a lot of videos of ZSS gameplay, and I never saw an upair connecting at high % :/ I will also try the low angled F-tilt, thank you !
Im open if you have any links/videos to share !

 

[pichuthedk]

I won't have anybut like I am sure there are alot of circumstances of getting that to work for example sure they are going to di it but if you did something random before the grab and they were thinking "wtf" they might not have been fully ready to di it.

I'll try to lab it if I remember because being truthful I believe I do run into that like you say but I would obviously continue trying to do that if I kept getting the grab before killing them after x%.

Another thing to note is that if you stale the down throw it might make it easier.

 

[T-Loc]

Whaaaaat FF NAir JC DownB isn't a true combo at 40 though, is it? I know without the JC, it combos from ~50 to 70 on most of the cast.

Edit: I can't get anything of the sort to work at 40%, and it seems like jump canceling after the NAir makes the DownB come out too late and too high at any percent.

 

[SphericalCrusher]

Me personally, if he's at high percentage, I usually try to stun and fsmash or hit him with the whip.

 

[pichuthedk]

Whaaaaat FF NAir JC DownB isn't a true combo at 40 though, is it? I know without the JC, it combos from ~50 to 70 on most of the cast.

Edit: I can't get anything of the sort to work at 40%, and it seems like jump canceling after the NAir makes the DownB come out too late and too high at any percent.

What character's are you trying that on and is slight rage a factor? I actually haven't gotten a lot of those FF nairs -> flip jumps in a long time.

 

[T-Loc]

It was all in training, so no rage. I usually practice my combos on average weight characters like mario, sheik, or sonic.

 

[pichuthedk]

Well wait then are you invincible on the very first frame of air dodges?
Because IIRC Tobi_Whatever said in another thread that the counter combo counter resets on the very first frame the person is able to act, So maybe even if they are able to act they will still get hit when inputting air dodge.
Been up since 3 am for work so my brain is mush right now .

 

[David Viran]

Well wait then are you invincible on the very first frame of air dodges?
Because IIRC Tobi_Whatever said in another thread that the counter combo counter resets on the very first frame the person is able to act, So maybe even if they are able to act they will still get hit when inputting air dodge.
Been up since 3 am for work so my brain is mush right now .

The combo counter is not accurate at mid to high percent combos. This is because at low percents you have every option at the same time out of hit stun, pretty much, but the higher the percent goes and the more kb and hit stun you get, AD starts to separate itself by being the first option you can do out of hit stun. The gap only gets bigger the higher the percents and the combo counter does not take this into account. IIRC the order of the options you can do at higher percents the earliest is AD -> attack -> jump/special.

 

[pichuthedk]

The combo counter is not accurate at mid to high percent combos. This is because at low percents you have every option at the same time out of hit stun, pretty much, but the higher the percent goes and the more kb and hit stun you get, AD starts to separate itself by being the first option you can do out of hit stun. The gap only gets bigger the higher the percents and the combo counter does not take this into account. IIRC the order of the options you can do at higher percents the earliest is AD -> attack -> jump/special.

Mk yeah i was sorta thinking along those lines. thanks for the clarification as usual my phrasing needs some work zzz.

 

[Tobi_Whatever]

IIRC the order of the options you can do at higher percents the earliest is AD -> attack -> jump/special.

This