Kirby is Better Than Pichu

[t!MmY]

I know some people want to argue the current Tier List (with Pichu on bottom and Kirby right above that). I believe their reasoning is simply because Pichu has many more perks than Kirby. For instance, he moves much better, has 1 frame from his Agility landing, actually has a projectile to use, etc.

Well, that looks all good and nice on paper, but here's the real truth of the matter: Pichu's match-ups suck. Hard. They suck so badly even Kirby makes him look bad. I feel the real problem is the fact that he's almost as easy to combo as Fox, get's KO'd at ridiculous percents, and get chaingrabbed (or grab combo'd) by half the cast. (Even Roy has a D-throw chaingrab into F-smash).

Yes, Kirby's priority is bad, his tech roll is bad, his etc etc etc is bad, but Pichu's is worse (and you'll likely take damage from doing whatever it is you're doing as well). Pichu is so bad that even Kirby doesn't have too difficult of a time comboing, tech chasing, or KOing him. In fact, you can theoretically tech chase him with a grounded Hammer (a real tech chase mind you, not a "predict and hope they screw up" tech chase). Kirby can also KO him at reasonable percents with U-air (we're talking about a solid KO, not a "Hit him with U-air and edge guard him" KO).

This has been an announcement from your friendly neighborhood Kirby.

 

[Kason Birdman]

t!mmy is the man.

and i agree fully. pichu is BAAAD.
and honestly i dont think kirby moves that poorly. real nice waveland imo.

and quick question about kirbys up-b.. when kirby uses his upb and gets hit out of it.. it gets rid of all of his jumps right? so if hes knocked off during his up b he is pretty well done since his up b is poop... right? or does he still have what ever remaining jumps left

but when you space it well enough his up b could make for a... well.. a pretty ****ty projectile.. but it can edgeguard.

 

[INSANE CARZY GUY]

claps t1mmy I have more respect for you than I should finally someone gave me a really good reason as to why? kirby is better. but sometyhing I think may come to question is skill. kirby I believe is by far the easiest in the game to play as, he is just sooo d*** simpe to work with his spaceing, spaming, and camps is uber straight forward.

pichu how ever isn't this simple in truth you could in fact win nair only WTF i've heard of m2k really doing that because his nair by all means is amazing if it hits a sheild you can quickly start upaing the crap out of his so they can't punish you and if they tryed to punish early they get comboed. it does everything.

besides for nair pichu is not at all straigh forward as for our friend kirby, pichu has countless up-B things to master to make his recovery longer and harder to stop double upper left/right comes to mind. mid air if i'm high enough(not on Ys or other uber small stage) I'm untouch when i'm out of SH range if they try to upar I can 2nd jump away into a thunder, up-B around and below, or jolt to totally stop them. totally helps vs puff however i've never seen a pichu that does this stuff like me.

also i've failed to have seen a pichu player fully chain throw or tech chase from grabs which pichu does have going for him. what i'm saying is most pichu's lack what they need to do better like the grabgame, up-B goodness, good use of thunder or being somewhat high in the air. All kirby's I hope for the love of God can WD back to d-tilt, space bair, and recover from a kirbycide. What i'm saying here is pichu players don't know what's up upair combos are the s*** I rarly see them. I can't do well because I can't play with anyone really. indananipolis sucks for melee.


however I do believe this T1mmy>t0mmy yes I saw the MM and other videos and etc.

you guys ever going to come back to sbbm?


also pichu vs marth/puff is where it's at pichu is to good in those match-ups. Also sheik doesn't feel nearly as bad as it used to.

 

[t!MmY]

The previous Melee tournament I played in was about a month ago and I whooped t0mmy pretty hard - taking 1st place.

You're right, Pichu has waaaay much stuff than Kirby has. I mean, just taking into consideration Pichu's U-Special alone gives him more things to play with than Kirby ever could have. I've seen t0mmy do QACs, ledge canceled QAs, QA-edgehogs, etc, etc.

But that still doesn't make up for Pichu's garbage match ups across the board.

 

[INSANE CARZY GUY]

True i'm simply saying most pichu players don't really know what to do or what they can do. I'm simply saying we suck even if we have a lot going for us, because nair can be the answer to EVERY single problem you have that and good spacing and if marth uses counter I geuss you grab to nair LOL.

Kirby is easier and the pichu players simply don't know what's up and I couldn't ever be taken serious because I approach with side-B however i'm smart with side-B so I never get punished and it's an uber legit mindgame but still.

we can both argee pichu can deal with extra gay camping much better than kirby and is much harder to get a hold of. If people simply would space better as pichu and be smart pichu over kirby. However if we aren't counting KJD who still plays just in korea and I really don't know how great tuna is I think as of now it would be fair to say kirby is better.

Simply put pichu players don't know what their doing and kirby players do even if kirby is worse which means pichu<kirby in today's metagame.

also I hope KK or pink reaper takes a picture of their face when they see this.



however I think for a bottom tier charcher pichu is amazing vs puff and marth. puff dies at 25% on any stage if she misses rest pichu's punishment is unGodly sometimes vs her and whole hop over her is **** she can't approach and if she jumps up at you shes f***ed if your smart up-B around, 2nd jump thunder or jolt for punishment to keep her low and to stop her from conrering you. I love that match-up I know a few small combos to get me 20% everynow and then.

marth I just do well against I don't even know if I know the match-up really but I haven't been 4 stocked by marths.

also sheik seems more and more possible to beat after every fight.

but top pichu's lori, tuna, maybe tommy sorry but something about him. also I don't think armada counts for an amazing kirby because it's like us taking japans metagame into acount for our tier list who are the best current kirby's? THAT PLAY

 

[BunBun]

but top pichu's lori, tuna, maybe tommy sorry but something about him. also I don't think armada counts for an amazing kirby because it's like us taking japans metagame into acount for our tier list who are the best current kirby's? THAT PLAY

Iori's Kirby is way better than his Pichu. lawl. Learn what you're talking about before you talk about it.

 

[BunBun]

I will also $100 MM you with Marth, Shiek or Puff any day vs your Pichu. Even if I am hammered off my ***.

None of those matchups are even close to being fair.



Pichu being able to punish Puff for missed rests doesn't really affect the matchup at all. She'll just not rest. Pichu can't do anything about camping bairs or responding to the jump with a uair.

He is definitely faster than her, but there's no way you would actually be able to effectively camp a Jiggs. She has amazing aerial movement and a ton of jumps, with amazing aerials. You have two jumps, an extremely fast up b that hurts you, and a more or less lagless ending to that up b, that will never really space you to a useful spot away from that jiggs. You'll just run away while taking damage.

 

[INSANE CARZY GUY]

I didn't play against lori's kirby but from what I did play this is the order of his best. m2, pichu , ness.

Also I didn't know kirby did better vs puff and marth? Sheik I just said I feel more comfortable with anymore even if one good hit(tilt/needle/grab/dash-attack/teching d-smash/and maybe half of sheik's air moves) sets up a grab on pichu and takes him up to 80% off the edge or over the top to death with low ceilings.

I know rest is a big part of her match-up vs most of the cast and people like sheik if isn't as risky I can see H-box resting sheiks more than foxs. But whatever for the rest part.Well my master plan to puff's bair is nnot to deal with it watch H-box it's meant to be broken or something so I go run up on to a platform and get under her if she stays below I moves a long. also I was saying puff/marth is better for pichu and of I play them enough I feel very much safe.

Really marth is mad is to deal with he is like the easiest top/high tier to deal with he only beats noobs, space animals, and people who are to slow to keep up.

 

[BunBun]

I didn't play against lori's kirby but from what I did play this is the order of his best. m2, pichu , ness.

How can you make claims like that? Lol?

 

[leffen]

people saying kirbys tech chase sucks is ********, if you do it correctly ( you have to tipper space his grab and grab in a certain animation ) its a 0 death on pure reaction, just like shieks is. This isnt that hard to get used to tbh, i've gotten techchased to death several times ;D

USA just doesnt have any good Kirby players like europe ( sweden ) do.

 

[BunBun]

Not yet, at least.

 

[INSANE CARZY GUY]

hey who were you? if your falco/sheik/m2 no way could you get tech chased to death by kirby they would have to heave inhuman reflexs or your uber predictable.Also tech chased to death a number of times I don't think you used your options that you could've used buffering roll shines/fast jabs 3 frames or faster are all great follow up options to simply teching.

Also kirby's tech chase doesn't suck but it isn't that great like sheik's. It wouldn't be insanely hard shake him off. also SDIing out of jab reset wouldn't be that hard so just get-up attack to SDi away. Pichu's tech chase isn't as good due to uit having higher knockback however most of the time for both kirby/pichu people tech when they could land on their feet marth's tech pichu's d-throw all the time when they never should but same for kirby.


Also yes I feel like I can say that basically purely off of playing him come on his pichu 4 stocked me 2 times his ness def. couldn't do the same and I don't have a clue what to do vs ness.

 

[BunBun]

Play his Ganon.

Or his Sheik.

Or his Fox.

Or his _______

 

[Strong Badam]

taj's kirby is beast

 

[Pink Reaper]

Kirby can only properly tech chase Falcon and Pichu to obscene %s. Its somewhat escapable with other characters, though the fast fallers and heavies can be chased for a long time.

 

[INSANE CARZY GUY]

Without DI on normal speed i was able to get out of kirby's t-throw tech chase at 51%no DI just jumping. Vs level pichu he SDied out of the jabs into a f-smash and was able to get out with just DI I think at 32% i'm not sure but he didn't jump or anything and just landed on his feet.

it's really hard to tech chase a level 9 pichu. I just wanted to study up on kirby's tech chase first. however if they don't tech and you can't jab reset them you could not jab and wait for the attack/roll/get up for a grab. just adding another level or tech chasing with SDI out of jab reset.


All I played was his m2 pichu and ness.

 

[BunBun]

IIRC you can techchase fox/falco on prediction all the way to uair KO %

 

[INSANE CARZY GUY]

yeh it's impossible to do it vs falco based totally off of reaction without being falcon, sheik or someone. Fox is much easier besides for the fact tech shine and to get a grab.

Also WTF for kirby vs falco when he gets the lasers my brother couldn't do anything on FDif he lasered he would get lasered back twice as hard, if he shined I wouldn't fire the last one and it would normally miss kirby anyway(full hop lasers) if he tryed to approach I grabed him and tryed to predict him if he stayed in place get up-tilted. I would just totally control everything he couldn't jump sheild approach or laser back the only thing he could really do is f-tilt me but I taught him how amazing falco's f-tilt is f-tilt sheilds to people who have ice climbers reaction time to sheild grab to f-smash ***** me.

He simnply didn'tstand a chance when I got the lasers because he was ****** me the whole time before that.

prediction I can predict what your going to do myself self you predict i'm going left when I could go right.it's legit on small stages like YS I geuss. I just watched that mach of me vs you I can't help but notice all kinds of crazy mindgames on both ours parts at times. Really I think that was the only way I landed any hits. Yeah basically hmm I should bait more.

 

[Pink Reaper]

IIRC you can techchase fox/falco on prediction all the way to uair KO %

Falco can DI far enough away that he can tech->Shine you out of your grab at relatively low %s. Same @ Fox.

 

[BunBun]

Even if you start running at the earliest possible frame out of your lag?

 

[INSANE CARZY GUY]

It's insanely hard and really beyond human reaction time.

Tech-Neutral

Total: 26
Invincible:
1-20 - [Everyone Else]
1-24 - Pichu, Pikachu

if fox teched in place you have 6 frames to grab if theyare perfect however you aren't perfect also. But tech in place pichu to jab and buffer spotdodge looks very nice and because kirby is close and misses the grab pichu can grab back and start tech chasing himself 3 frames to grab. much higher risk also.

 

[Armada]

Kirby is way better then people actually believe he is.

Ok he is better in Pal but still.

Kirby is awesome =).

I can not understand how kirby can be so low at the tierlist.
ohh wait i understand it now.... people dont playing Kirby.

looks like my kirby have to start playing more now =)

 

[Dogysamich]

no.

you know what. I hate this thread.

*close*

Deal wit it.

 

[Kewkky]

I have no idea why that guy closed this thread. It wasn't productive discussion, but it wasn't a joke thread either. :|

Either way, w/e, guess it's closed unless enough people wanna open it and discuss away. Just closing every topic won't bring activity to these boards, but once the topic's closed, reopening it is a different story.