• Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!

    You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!

Lets talk about buffering

Ripple

ᗣᗣᗣᗣ ᗧ·····•·····
Joined
Sep 4, 2006
Messages
9,632
there has got to be some unknown buffer on somethings because sometimes when I hit A before I get knocked down, it buffers a get up attack or an aerial after I slide off the stage
 

BTmoney

a l l b e c o m e $
Joined
Jan 2, 2013
Messages
1,806
Location
Columbus OH / Chicago (Plainfield) IL
Is that the only application of buffering?
And so you're saying like


Marth for example
frames:
00 in shield stun, holding c-stick
01 in shield stun, holding c-stick
02 in shield stun, holding c-stick
03 not in shield stun, roll begins asap
04 not yet invincible (invincibility for marth's and most rolls is on the 4th frame)
05 not invincible
06 invincible
07 blah blah blah


So if you were to roll with the analog stick, how soon would the roll come out, do you have to wait a frame or what (like between 03 and 04 there would be another step)


edit:
can't you also buffer rolls and get up attacks (like mentioned above) from the knocked down stance?
 

Mahone

Smash Champion
Joined
Apr 19, 2010
Messages
2,940
Location
Blacksburg, VA
there has got to be some unknown buffer on somethings because sometimes when I hit A before I get knocked down, it buffers a get up attack or an aerial after I slide off the stage
DUDEEEEEEEEE

this is one of the only things missing in P:M and im like the only one who complains about it


i can't ever purposely miss a tech getupattack in that game EVER!!!!!!!!!!!
 

Pengie

Smash Lord
Joined
Nov 8, 2007
Messages
1,125
Location
Atlanta, GA
Off the top of my head there is a buffer out of hit-stun where if you input something while in hit-stun some time just before you get out of it it'll come out as soon as possible. The biggest example I can think of is people airdodging when they miss techs on fox's shine by the edge or they go off of the edge doing an aerial because they pressed a button just as they were hit.

I'm also convinced that what ripple said is right because I know for a fact that I'll get get up attacks at times where I did not press A once I was on the floor.

Side note: The roll/jump buffer isn't really a buffer but rather a turbo button sort of thing. When you hold the c-stick in a direction it'll input that direction every frame so it's kind of a psuedo buffer.
 

BTmoney

a l l b e c o m e $
Joined
Jan 2, 2013
Messages
1,806
Location
Columbus OH / Chicago (Plainfield) IL
Okay, that roll thing makes sense but you could just do it with the analog stick (assuming holding a direction once again inputs the direction every frame) if that's all it is. But yeah i get it.


Here's a serious question. Can you buffer DI? I want to say yes and no.

Sometimes I'll be holding a direction and I'll get hit and DI (like running away from a jiggs u-throw for example but getting the DI)
Other times I'll be holding a direction, not ever let go and not get the DI in a similar situation.
 

Bones0

Smash Legend
Joined
Aug 31, 2005
Messages
11,153
Location
Jarrettsville, MD
Buffers I can think of off the top of my head:
- DI/drifting, but I wouldn't really call it buffering, so meh
- C-stick can buffer jumps, rolls, and spotdodges
- Control stick can buffer jumps, rolls, and spotdodges, but only for 3 frames
- FF buffers for 3 frames
- Shield drops buffer for 5 frames
- Jump out of hitstun
- GUA after knockdowns
- Lasers with Fox/Falco (after the first)
- Shield
- Down throws (ONLY dthrows)

I'm sure there's a bunch more. Those are the most important ones. I think you can buffer stuff like rolls from the ledge, but I can't say for sure.
 

Bones0

Smash Legend
Joined
Aug 31, 2005
Messages
11,153
Location
Jarrettsville, MD
Yo, care to expand on both?

If you could buffer jump out of hitstun that's something to think about for OoS stuff
Btw where did you get that from?
Well buffering DI, I just mean if you're holding left as you walk across the stage and get kneed in the back of the head, technically you are DIing (and ASDIing) left. lol

As far as jump out of hitstun, SypherPhoenix told me about it. You can probably recall being knocked off stage where you bounced off the ground or a platform or something, and if that happens and you hold a jump input you will buffer a jump as soon as the hitstun ends. That isn't related to stuff with shielding though. That is SHIELDstun. Still, you can buffer jumps OoS with up on the C-stick. I use it all the time with Falco when I shield an attack from below and want to FH away from my opponent asap.


Oh yeah, you can buffer shield. LOL And dthrows since they are weird. I feel like I'm forgetting a bunch of easy ones. *sigh*
 

BTmoney

a l l b e c o m e $
Joined
Jan 2, 2013
Messages
1,806
Location
Columbus OH / Chicago (Plainfield) IL
Well buffering DI, I just mean if you're holding left as you walk across the stage and get kneed in the back of the head, technically you are DIing (and ASDIing) left. lol
Sometimes I'll be holding a direction and I'll get hit and DI (like running away from a jiggs u-throw for example but getting the DI)
Other times I'll be holding a direction, not ever let go and not get the DI in a similar situation.
Yeah I jumped the gun on the OoS. I got excited. But what about that? I feel like this can't just happen to me.
 

Bones0

Smash Legend
Joined
Aug 31, 2005
Messages
11,153
Location
Jarrettsville, MD
I guarantee you're just slow on the DI. The game doesn't lie. If you're holding left/right before you get thrown you will DI.
 
Joined
Oct 10, 2011
Messages
1,126
Location
Boise, ID
NNID
dansalvato
Off the top of my head there is a buffer out of hit-stun where if you input something while in hit-stun some time just before you get out of it it'll come out as soon as possible. The biggest example I can think of is people airdodging when they miss techs on fox's shine by the edge or they go off of the edge doing an aerial because they pressed a button just as they were hit.
This isn't buffering, it's a result of the hitstun being cancelled by the character hitting the ground, then sliding off the edge. Doing this puts the character in the regular "fall" state, so if the player hits a button to tech but is a few frames too late, they will airdodge to their death.
 

Massive

Smash Champion
Joined
Aug 11, 2006
Messages
2,833
Location
Kansas City, MO
I don't know if it would be considered buffering, but you can hold a direction on the C-stick while running, and then crouch cancel to do that smash on the first available frame.

I didn't even notice it was a thing until I played project M and kept dash attacking when I was intending to smash out of run.
 

BSeeD

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Mar 10, 2007
Messages
281
Wow wasn't aware that jump buffering was possible :p

It's working like buffered roll ? U just input up on the C-stick while being shieldstunned and you jump the first frame you can ?
 

Bones0

Smash Legend
Joined
Aug 31, 2005
Messages
11,153
Location
Jarrettsville, MD
Wow wasn't aware that jump buffering was possible :p

It's working like buffered roll ? U just input up on the C-stick while being shieldstunned and you jump the first frame you can ?
To clarify, you can't just tap up on the C-stick. You have to hold it, and on the first frame after shield stun ends you will jump as long as you are still holding it. It works the same as the other C-stick buffers OoS.
 

dkuo

Smash Lord
Joined
Apr 21, 2010
Messages
1,464
Location
San Jose, CA
you can as long as you let go of c-stick up early enough, its pretty helpful if you're confident about when you can jump. obviously harder with quick jumps
 

gravy

Smash Ace
Joined
Apr 4, 2009
Messages
560
You can buffer turn arounds. If you're landing with an aerial or wavedashing or something, you can just hold the other direction and you'll turn around first frame. Bones, what's the window for buffering downthrow? Can I just hold c stick down? If this is true, I'm going to do it all the time. Less time to react and DI against Falcons dthrow=more knees.
 

Strong Badam

Super Elite
Administrator
Premium
BRoomer
Joined
Feb 27, 2008
Messages
26,545
that's not really a buffer. that's like saying you can buffer a walk or a crouch. the input for the action is a held input so of course it happens as quickly as possible.
a true buffer is when you PRESS a button early and it still works like the get-up attack thing that was mentioned. the c-stick buffering rolls isn't really buffering but we use the term anyway.
 

gravy

Smash Ace
Joined
Apr 4, 2009
Messages
560
Alright, I can accept that. For buffering shield drops, I know that you can hold the direction while dashing to drop through (shai drop,) but I haven't noticed it to work if I'm just standing still. Can I buffer shield drops from shield pressure? Like if a falco just shined me, can I just put the shield drop motion in and get out first frame?
 

BSeeD

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Mar 10, 2007
Messages
281
I tried yesterday, with Falco you can easily buffer SH OoS with C-stick.

But yeah, this means learning another way to short hop -_-

Damn, this game is complicated...
 

BTmoney

a l l b e c o m e $
Joined
Jan 2, 2013
Messages
1,806
Location
Columbus OH / Chicago (Plainfield) IL
Here's a, fairly unrelated, question:

Is there lag between being in shield and rolling while using the c-stick?
Yes the c-stick does it on the first possible frame but is there lag between shielding and rolling?

As in is it purely:
(already holding a c-stick direction)
00 in shield
[would there be anything here]
01 frame 1 of roll begins when you are vulnerable
02 frame 2
03 frame 3
04 invulnerable etc.?
 

Metal Reeper

Smash Champion
Joined
Oct 20, 2006
Messages
2,285
Location
Abington PA
You cannot buffer a shield drop. However you can get the timing down good enough. One thing I do with Falcon is im on a platform, I wait to get hit, then I shield drop>uair> and sometimes depending on DI of course I can get the knee. The timing isn't hard.
Practice.
 

Signia

Smash Lord
Joined
Feb 5, 2009
Messages
1,157
In other fighting games, buffering inputs is when you queue actions to be done when possible. It's called "buffering" because you press buttons to put the action(s) into an input buffer, which is just a queue of inputs that the game records and outputs the corresponding action when it can.

Are c-stick+shield actions like buffer-rolling and buffer-jumping really buffering? Seems like they'd at least be different from FF buffering or get-up-attack buffering. But if you all want "buffering" to just be a blanket term for "stuff you can do in advance or don't have to time to get the perfect timing" whatever, just another smash term ****up
 

BSeeD

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Mar 10, 2007
Messages
281
I donno, I mean we could argue about a name yeah, but "buffering", even though it is not what it means in other fighters, looks like a good word to me.

And yeah it's not really buffering.
 

leffen

Smash Champion
Joined
Jun 30, 2008
Messages
2,032
Location
Stockholm, Sweden
It's because those actions can be triggered by several different amounts of tilting the control stick, more specifically three amounts, thus "three frame buffer".
Its also the same for jumping, fastfalling (maybe this one is not because of this?) and so on. This also means that if you push the control stick to fast, it won't buffer as it will reach the max tilt in one or two frames.

Don't quote me on this before getting AJP's confirmation though, he's the one that told me this. IIRC he uses up to jump in HRC while doing batdrops to get the fastest possible jumps.
 

Bones0

Smash Legend
Joined
Aug 31, 2005
Messages
11,153
Location
Jarrettsville, MD
The only reason I think it may just be a true buffer is because they have something similar for fsmash and usmash. You can "buffer" the stick input for an fsmash by a few frames (I think it's 3, but I forget), and of course usmashes you can "buffer" the stick input by however many frames of jumpsquat the character has. I think they might have just made it so if you try to roll or spotdodge or jump too early (even if you went from neutral to full press in 1 frame) you be given a small window of error.
 

ant-d

Smash Lord
Joined
Jun 3, 2005
Messages
1,314
Location
London, England
"jump out of tumble" can be buffered around 22 frames before entering tumble animation. It's quite large.

Edit:
I compiled a list of these however I don't have access to my PC for another 4 days.
 

Bones0

Smash Legend
Joined
Aug 31, 2005
Messages
11,153
Location
Jarrettsville, MD
"jump out of tumble" can be buffered around 23 frames before entering tumble animation. It's quite large.

(it's 22, 23 or 24) :-P can't remember exactly off the top of my head

Edit: I compiled a list of these however I don't have access to my PC for another 4 days.
You're awesome.
 

ant-d

Smash Lord
Joined
Jun 3, 2005
Messages
1,314
Location
London, England
One thing I cannot explain yet is that "jump out of tumble" sometimes cannot be buffered.

I have been testing with the same attack at the same damage on the same character.
In this example: f-tilt started at frame 100 = cannot buffer, yet f-tilt started at frame 101 = can buffer

Might be a controller issue or something weird in my set up though.
 
Top Bottom