Making Mario's Moves Safe on Shield?

[acdebega]

Hello all.

I've been playing around as Mario and I have some seemingly basic questions.

I understand that some moves like Falco's dair or Foxes nair are safe on shield. Are there any moves/tools of Mario that are safe on shield? I'd like to mention that I have been playing against CPUs mostly, and while they do powershield way to often, I don't know if their standard shielding/defense has anything funky I should but don't know about.

I had more but I forgot. So I will post when I remember.

Thanks in advance.

 

[Strong Badam]

Those moves are mostly safe because they have frame 1 moves that are jump cancelable they can perform afterward. Mario doesn't get this luxury, but you can usually catch would-be shield grabs with a quick Jab after landing (it's frame 2). Jab on shield is solid, it grants a mixup between grab (no buffered shield option) or following up on a read for buffered rolls/spotdodges. If you catch a shield-grab attempt, you can combo Jab into Dtilt or Dsmash on the entire cast.

 

[GeZ]

You could also space your aerials well. Mario's Bair is super solid and tapping their shield with the end of it can be pretty tough to punish all thing considered. Mario moves fast though, so you shouldn't have too much trouble shield pressuring. Use well spaced aerials and tilts to feel them out. If they turtle it out, go for grab. If they want to do **** out of their shield, poke at them with his good distanced normals (Side Tilt, Side Smash).

 

[Viceversa96]

Those moves are mostly safe because they have frame 1 moves that are jump cancelable they can perform afterward. Mario doesn't get this luxury, but you can usually catch would-be shield grabs with a quick Jab after landing (it's frame 2). Jab on shield is solid, it grants a mixup between grab (no buffered shield option) or following up on a read for buffered rolls/spotdodges. If you catch a shield-grab attempt, you can combo Jab into Dtilt or Dsmash on the entire cast.

Also forgot cape. When you space it correctly they can't do **** when you cape their shield. Oh and reverse controls.

 

[Strong Badam]

Cape is far slower than jab.

 

[GeZ]

Cape is far slower than jab.

I think Viceversa was referring to cape as a tack on to my idea of spacing aerials better, since the OP asked for safe on shield options and Mario doesn't have any, it seems like a good idea to supply as many substitute strategies as possible. Well spaced cape shouldn't be spammed, BUT, neither should any of his other options. It's a solid mixup to shield pressure, just like jab.
I'm personally more fond of spaced aerials because when I would employ a jab to stop shield grabs, it would do me less good as I'd do it after an aerial, leading to more time in between my hitting the ground and starting the jab. Along with this, jab has a short enough range that the situations where it beats his other tools are few and far between. I don't not use it, but I don't think it's as applicable to as many situations as some of Mario's other tools and tricks.

 

[Viceversa96]

Cape is far slower than jab.

It's just hilarious when you reverse their controls and they SD :D

 

[Mr.Pickle]

Wavelanding after a bair is extremely safe, so is dair because of its landing hitbox.

 

[WyzDM]

Jabbing into a grab or down-smash (or forward-smash to just settle the space). That mix up will leave players guessing on your followups and they may drop their shield too early.

 

[A Revelation]

Just to clarify the space animals aerials are not safe on shield always. It's how they're done and the spacing of when the move hit.

For example: Rising Nairs are just asking to get shield grabbed even if they try to L-cancel and Shine cause the shield stun is over before they touch they ground.
However delayed Nairs are safe to shield grabbing cause the shine is faster than your grab. This does not mean it's safe from all forms of retaliation though depending on your character.

The same can be applied to Mario in a sense. Any rising aerial, mis-spaced, will be grabbed (especially if you fight grab heavy characters.) Later ones can be L-cancelled into jab or whatever options Mario has that are fast enough to stop a shield grab.

Spacing is key too, I'm not sure for Mario however a single jab done too deep in shield can be grabbed. At least that's how it is in Melee. Project M has different shield pushback mechanics so a jab may not ever be too deep for you to consider it for now.

Question for you to get your mind thinking, If you single jab deep into the shield what should you do to try to stop the incoming shield grab?

 

[MysteryRevengerson]

Tuck n' roll

 

[GeZ]

Just to clarify the space animals aerials are not safe on shield always. It's how they're done and the spacing of when the move hit.

For example: Rising Nairs are just asking to get shield grabbed even if they try to L-cancel and Shine cause the shield stun is over before they touch they ground.
However delayed Nairs are safe to shield grabbing cause the shine is faster than your grab. This does not mean it's safe from all forms of retaliation though depending on your character.

The same can be applied to Mario in a sense. Any rising aerial, mis-spaced, will be grabbed (especially if you fight grab heavy characters.) Later ones can be L-cancelled into jab or whatever options Mario has that are fast enough to stop a shield grab.

Spacing is key too, I'm not sure for Mario however a single jab done too deep in shield can be grabbed. At least that's how it is in Melee. Project M has different shield pushback mechanics so a jab may not ever be too deep for you to consider it for now.

Question for you to get your mind thinking, If you single jab deep into the shield what should you do to try to stop the incoming shield grab?

The player was referring to Fox's Nair leaving you completely neutral frame wise when executed right. No one is saying that the move is safe in all instances because nothing is, they were merely stating that there are a few characters, primarily animals in space, that have moves that can be safe on shield in that way. With Mario, it's a better idea to land behind them because he has no aerials that leave him nearly as safe as some of the spacies stuff.

 

[A Revelation]

Hello all.


I understand that some moves like Falco's dair or Foxes nair are safe on shield.

He didn't specify and definitely didn't say neutral.

 

[GeZ]

He didn't specify and definitely didn't say neutral.

He said safe on shield which means that you can't be grabbed, hit, or harmed in any way after it. Translating into the mechanics of the game something being "safe" is it ending Neutral or Positive frame wise. So he specified that some moves, like the aforementioned ones, can be safe, and I was relating that frame neutral or positive is what safe is, to better explain why so few characters have "safe" moves.