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Making strong attacks easier/less tedious.

metho

Smash Rookie
Joined
Jul 5, 2012
Messages
24
Not sure about everyone else but I have a hard time doing strong attacks. Every time I tilt the control stick my character always goes into a run or a jump because I push it too fast.

My solution to this problem is that instead of tilting the control stick, we could press down on the control stick to perform a smash attack. The controls are the same when you don't press down on it but when you do press down it could prevent you from running, jumping and doing smash attacks.

What do you think? Good or bad idea?
 

metho

Smash Rookie
Joined
Jul 5, 2012
Messages
24
Not talking about smash attacks though. I'm talking about strong attacks.

EDIT: Also I'm suggesting this idea so I can quickly flick control stick and still do a strong attack.
 

Ove

Smash Journeyman
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I suggest you learn to do tilts properly instead. Learn to not push the control stick too hard.

The controls for smash are very comprehensive, so there's really no need to make such big changes as replacing downtilt with a smash attack. Tilts are essential for smash, so removing downtilt is not a good idea.
 

metho

Smash Rookie
Joined
Jul 5, 2012
Messages
24
I suggest you learn to do tilts properly instead. Learn to not push the control stick too hard.

The controls for smash are very comprehensive, so there's really no need to make such big changes as replacing downtilt with a smash attack. Tilts are essential for smash, so removing downtilt is not a good idea.
I'm not suggesting to remove them. I'm just suggesting that the way you perform tilts could be different.
 

DakotaBonez

The Depraved Optimist
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Are you referring to a smash attack or a tilt attack? The term "strong attack" isn't used around here.

I always thought it would be cool if, for smash attacks, holding the second analog stick in a direction would charge the smash attack, and releasing the stick would activate the smash. As currently using the stick takes away the ability to charge the attack and instead activates it as quickly as possible. An option to toggle between these two methods would be awesome.

As for tilt attacks (moving the analog stick slowly or halfway in one direction) It is a pain to activate them without starting a jump or a dash. To solve the problem of jumping, go to the name menu that lets you change controls for when using a certain name. There's an option called tilt jump turned on by default. Turn it off and jumping will be assigned to the X, Y, or C button. Now when you press up you won't jump and you can easily do the up tilt. However I like your suggestion of pressing the control sticks in to disable movement and make tilt attacks easier. Maybe you could even press the stick and use the other analog stick to point in the direction of the tilt.
 

Pseudomaniac

Smash Journeyman
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He's referring to tilts. They're referred to as "strong attacks" in the official manual.

Anyhow, my little brother has the same issue, except he normally does smash attacks instead of tilts because he has a tendency to be very twitchy. My recommendation is to just go into training mode and practice tilts on a dummy for like 10-15 minutes. You'll get a hang of it in no time.
 

MR. K

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Mar 7, 2012
Messages
270
honestly IMO they're fine as is.

no reasno to totally readjust this one mechanic because a few people haven't figured out the speed in which you have to move the control stick to do the move without doing a smash.

I've never had problems doing tilts even when i was a total beginner.


Now fo course if you're using the wiimote solo you'd probably have trouble doing em...but of course that's the whole problem in the first place; you're using the wiimote by itself nes style, which severely limits what you can and can't do.
 

Robert of Normandy

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honestly IMO they're fine as is.

no reasno to totally readjust this one mechanic because a few people haven't figured out the speed in which you have to move the control stick to do the move without doing a smash.

I've never had problems doing tilts even when i was a total beginner.


Now fo course if you're using the wiimote solo you'd probably have trouble doing em...but of course that's the whole problem in the first place; you're using the wiimote by itself nes style, which severely limits what you can and can't do.
Yeah, I think they should just drop the wiimote-only option. Smash was BUILT for an analog stick and feels awkward on anything else.
 

Hyper_Ridley

Smash Champion
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Dec 21, 2007
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Hippo Island
I wouldn't mind giving smash attacks their own button to avoid the input overlap with tilts. This would also allow for neutral smashes.
 

MR. K

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Mar 7, 2012
Messages
270
^that kind of defeats the purpose of em to begin with

part of the reason this game is called SMASH bros....is because the SMASH attacks were basically called that because you SMASHED the Control stick in one direction at the same time as an attack to do the strongest of the three A button ground attacks.
 

Master Knight DH

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Apr 1, 2008
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460
^that kind of defeats the purpose of em to begin with

part of the reason this game is called SMASH bros....is because the SMASH attacks were basically called that because you SMASHED the Control stick in one direction at the same time as an attack to do the strongest of the three A button ground attacks.
THIS!

10chars
 

Robert of Normandy

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Yeah, I don't think any new attack buttons should be added. Part of what make Smash unique is how it does "more with less" by making basically every important action in the game be performable with 3 or four buttons and an analog stick.

If you really have problems with tilts, either your fingers are too twitchy or there's something wrong with your controller and you need to find a new one.
 

DakotaBonez

The Depraved Optimist
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True, being able to play the game soley with 3 buttons and an analog stick or D-Pad made it compatible with even the wii-mote. But because they had to make Brawl compatible with wii controllers, they sacrificed the ability to control the strength of your shield based on how hard you pressed down on the triggers, because wii-motes don't have a pressure sensitive trigger.
Although that's kind of a bad example as in melee it could also be done by holding the z button which wasn't pressure sensitive and this feature could've simply been seen, as most of us agree, overpowered or simply unnessecary.
I want smash bros to move on to become increasingly complex, while still allowing for simpler controllers or beginning players to perform the same action but to a lesser degree with a shortcut like the c-stick, which performs a weaker smash attack. While experts can use the pro controller to fully utilize all abilities.

The game Tatsunoko VS Capcom activated simple mode if a player used a wii mote, in which special moves could be activated with the press of a button, a huge advantage against GC controller users who had access to more advanced techniques, but had to input crazy joystick manuevers to initiate a special. It's debatable which side has the greater advantage when your opponent can spawn Hadoukens at a rapid rate whilst the opponent has a larger arsenal of attacks.
Meanwhile the Clash of Ninja series gave abilities solely to the wii-mote + nunchuck combo. And if you overcame the simple controller swap you'd notice that the wii-mote + nunchuck combo allowed for throwing bombs by pointing at the screen, doubling the strength of specials by flailing your arms, and even being able to activate status boosts by making "hand signs"...
This results in terribly one-sided online play where the GC controller using majority are foiled by noobs with a power boost and one hit K.O. specials.

These are both the wrong way to go about it. The traditional controllers should have the same abilities as the motion-controlled simpler ones. You're probably thinking less buttons equals impossibility. But you have to remember that the wii-motes have motion control, which has by now become perfected. ( Heck it was pretty damn good in Warioware smooth moves and worked flawlessly in skyward sword)
The problem with motion control though is that doing simple actions like leaning or sitting down will result in an unintentional action being initiated and, possibly, costing you a life. Which is why we're gonna take a look at the obscure Spore game that was released for wii. It's combat was simple but held a key idea. Attacks performed by shaking are only initiated when the attack button is held. For instance. Say you are holding the wii mote sideways. You want to perform an upward smash. First you must hold A before shaking the controller to initiate it. That is actually troublesome and should definitely be a Toggle-able option. Which leads to one more thing.
Complete liberty over button mapping. If I want to footstool by pressing x then I damn well better be able to. Button combos like A+B, B+X, etc... would be needed as well.
 

Supreme Dirt

King of the Railway
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The only time I've had trouble with tilts was when I switched to classic controller at one point. Sensitivity and resistance threw me off.
 

metho

Smash Rookie
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Messages
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The only time I've had trouble with tilts was when I switched to classic controller at one point. Sensitivity and resistance threw me off.
Really? I use the classic controller all the time. That could be why I have trouble.
 

Zinnamon

Smash Cadet
Joined
Aug 18, 2007
Messages
41
It's easy to do but OP's situation is a good example, think that this game is supposed to be played by everyone, not everyone will be able to master the controls, tilting is relatively hard, it is so, that many people who play, avoid tilting and generally use smash attacks or down tilts when crouched. You just need to know that the competitive community is not the only one this game is aimed for, kids play it more often than you think! controls are pretty complicated for kids believe it or not, mashing random buttons is more practical than knowing what they do to them, and that is just proof that something is wrong.
 

Big-Cat

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How about a double tap in the intended direction for Smash attacks and running? For example, FSmash is 66A and DSmash is 22A. Still, it's not too difficult to adapt to the current controls.
 

Robert of Normandy

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How about a double tap in the intended direction for Smash attacks and running? For example, FSmash is 66A and DSmash is 33A. Still, it's not too difficult to adapt to the current controls.
Only if there's an option to control with the D-pad, which I hope there isn't. I happen to like smash's analog based controls, it's something that helps set it apart from other fighters.
 

Zinnamon

Smash Cadet
Joined
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Messages
41
How about a double tap in the intended direction for Smash attacks and running? For example, FSmash is 66A and DSmash is 33A. Still, it's not too difficult to adapt to the current controls.
Wouldn't 3 be diagonal down right? Why is that DSmash?
 

-LzR-

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I would do anything to see these guys play Street Fighter or something. Anything...
 
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