Match-up Chart: Revisited

[Kuares]

Old news and all, but I thought we should have some discussion about this


-3:
-1:
0:
1:
2:
3:


Personally I believe Sheik should be a -2, not a -3. Other than that I think it's right but does anyone else have any problems with this?

 

[crifer]

I think Wario and MAYBE D3 is even.

 

[Kuro~]

I think wario is even. It's like the only mu ik with fox really well w/fox so far though.

Pit is even.

Why is peach not +1?Not saying i particularly think that but i'd like to know the reasoning.

 

[Conviction]

Illmatic showed me the light to the Peach MU. It's gay for her.

It's +1.

 

[Chef Fox]

Zero Suit Samus is at least a +1. Forget the Down Smash lock, just avoid it (easy)

 

[Rizk18]

Naw Nakat and me discussed the ZSS and Peach MU and we think its even. Just our opinion though.

Edit: You guys are gonna think i'm crazy but oh well.
These are in-my-opinion Fox's MU

-1
0
-1
0
-1
-1
-3
-2
-3
0
0
0
-1
0
0
0
0
-1
+1
-1
0
0
0
-2/-3
0
+1
who cares
+1
0
+1
0
+2
+2
+2
+1
+3

 

[NAKAT]

There is already a backroom thread for this. Can you guys see it? It might only be for certain players though...

 

[Kuro~]

There is already a backroom thread for this. Can you guys see it? It might only be for certain players though...

Only you and trevonte can see it. Trevonte still hasn't posted his opinions even though he said he would like a week ago lol

 

[NAKAT]

Oh alright then, I'm not even done with my whole mu thingy

 

[TKD]

These are the real odds:

Counter
Ice Climbers Pikachu

Disadvantage
Sheik

Even
- MK Snake Diddy Kong Wario Marth Olimar Falco Wolf King Dedede Pit Zero Suit Samus Kirby Pokémon Trainer

Advantage
- Mr. Game & Watch Lucario R.O.B. Toon Link Donkey Kong Sonic Peach Luigi Mario Ness Bowser Lucas

Counter
- Ike Jigglypuff Link Yoshi Zelda Captain Falcon Samus Ganondorf


This list isn't 100% confirmed, but it's much more accurate than the others.

tip
The buffer for dash usmash is (side, up+hold), (jump+attack)
(side, up+hold) buffers a dash. -up- doesn't override the buffer because it commands neither walk, crouch, nor shield.
(jump+attack) is the input for JC usmash since you were already holding up.

 

[Rizk18]

PT even? Lol how?
Also Wario, Marth, Olimar even??
How do we have an adv against Gnw,TL and Mario? Weren't those even? And also I recall you saying Mario was even in an interview lol
I don't think we counter Ike. San and Mr. Doom think its about +1 for us I agree. Yoshi shouldn't be that much of a counter imo. And Samus was thought to be even or at least +1 for us.

 

[Conviction]

Last tourney I went to I 2-0'd our PR Wario. I still what the mu is. I felt like there was more I could do but didn't know how to apply it or where to apply it. Wario seems to get away with things that aren't that safe that are proclaimmed safe. When I get the time I'll play around against wario.

 

[Rizk18]

Lol 2-0ing somebody doesn't mean anything about the MU. Maybe you played good and he played bad, or maybe you guys go even and you happened to pull it out. Doesn't mean it is an even MU. No doubt you get credit for it i'm not trying to hate,i'm just saying that doesn't determine it. Btw Georgia has like 4 people I think PR'd that play which are you talking about?

 

[Player-3]

how does fox go even against wolf?

after playing seagullman i felt like he just had a slight advantage in most situations

 

[TKD]

If you want to talk about how the matches FEEL, I feel like all of the even ones are in Fox's favor. But that's because of me.

G&W is too slow. You can bait everything and blaster almost at will, but single shots are better so you hit him hard each time he absorbs. He's light too.
Fox ***** Marth. I only say it's even to not underrate Marth. At first you can threaten with ACbair and just grab him since he wants to grab you. If he looks like he'll try to fight so bair won't work, just punish something and use momentum.
Nair goes through Olimar's usmash. Dair goest through his uair. His grab is 12 frames.
Wario jumps very, very slow. I don't know this match-up but he does and it feels crappy vs Fox. He is heavier and more powerful, yeah.
Things change. Mario's movement is slow or his moves are small. Choose whichever; he's lacking either trait.
I guess Trainer may be in Fox's favor. But iono the mu.
Dedede may be in fox's favor too, cuz of combos and bair (as edgeguard vs upb).
Oh yeah Yoshi sucks.

 

[Kuro~]

These are the real odds:

Counter
Ice Climbers Pikachu

Disadvantage
Sheik

Even
- MK Snake Diddy Kong Wario Marth Olimar Falco Wolf King Dedede Pit Zero Suit Samus Kirby Pokémon Trainer

Advantage
- Mr. Game & Watch Lucario R.O.B. Toon Link Donkey Kong Sonic Peach Luigi Mario Ness Bowser Lucas

Counter
- Ike Jigglypuff Link Yoshi Zelda Captain Falcon Samus Ganondorf


This list isn't 100% confirmed, but it's much more accurate than the others.

tip
The buffer for dash usmash is (side, up+hold), (jump+attack)
(side, up+hold) buffers a dash. -up- doesn't override the buffer because it commands neither walk, crouch, nor shield.
(jump+attack) is the input for JC usmash since you were already holding up.

So is doing this faster than just buffering a dash and then using upsmash by enough that it makes it relevant?

 

[Player-3]

If you want to talk about how the matches FEEL, I feel like all of the even ones are in Fox's favor. But that's because of me.

G&W is too slow. You can bait everything and blaster almost at will, but single shots are better so you hit him hard each time he absorbs. He's light too.
Fox ***** Marth. I only say it's even to not underrate Marth. At first you can threaten with ACbair and just grab him since he wants to grab you. If he looks like he'll try to fight so bair won't work, just punish something and use momentum.
Nair goes through Olimar's usmash. Dair goest through his uair. His grab is 12 frames.
Wario jumps very, very slow. I don't know this match-up but he does and it feels crappy vs Fox. He is heavier and more powerful, yeah.
Things change. Mario's movement is slow or his moves are small. Choose whichever; he's lacking either trait.
I guess Trainer may be in Fox's favor. But iono the mu.
Dedede may be in fox's favor too, cuz of combos and bair (as edgeguard vs upb).
Oh yeah Yoshi sucks.

could you explain the feel of the wolf matchup?

because i felt like until he got close to me i had free roam, but then his bair shut down a ton of my options

but i had never played many wolfs before


oh, and the blaster > runoff shine > dj shine gimp really caught me off guard the first time, so i learned that

 

[Rizk18]

If you want to talk about how the matches FEEL, I feel like all of the even ones are in Fox's favor. But that's because of me.

G&W is too slow. You can bait everything and blaster almost at will, but single shots are better so you hit him hard each time he absorbs. He's light too.
Fox ***** Marth. I only say it's even to not underrate Marth. At first you can threaten with ACbair and just grab him since he wants to grab you. If he looks like he'll try to fight so bair won't work, just punish something and use momentum.
Nair goes through Olimar's usmash. Dair goest through his uair. His grab is 12 frames.
Wario jumps very, very slow. I don't know this match-up but he does and it feels crappy vs Fox. He is heavier and more powerful, yeah.
Things change. Mario's movement is slow or his moves are small. Choose whichever; he's lacking either trait.
I guess Trainer may be in Fox's favor. But iono the mu.
Dedede may be in fox's favor too, cuz of combos and bair (as edgeguard vs upb).
Oh yeah Yoshi sucks.

Nair is way to risky against Olimar. It's an easy oos Usmash. Seriously that tactic is overrated to say the least. What does Fox have over Wario? Besides maybe lasers? Fair can be SDI'd especially by Wario due to his mobility. Marth's Fair>Fox's Bair.
Also Olimar's grab may be 12 frames but that pivot and side b make it annoying to approach and laser. Lasering=shooting pikmen. Nair=oos Usmash. Dair=Pivot grabbed. Utilt=Buffered Nair or something.
I'm sorry but I really disagree with these MU being even or in Fox's favor(except maybe Mario,PT, and D3.)

[I'm a fan of TKD ]

 

[Conviction]

Mic was the wario, but as I said I'm not sure of the mu yet.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

I think Snake, Diddy, Olimar are -1 and I don't think DDD is an even match-up. The rest looks pretty accurate, maybe Wario as -1 too but other than that I agree with TKD