Katakiri
LV 20
- Joined
- Dec 20, 2007
- Messages
- 967
- NNID
- Katakiri
- 3DS FC
- 2492-5180-2983
Welcome to our Zero Suit Samus match-up discussion!
"Try me."
Discuss character strengths, weaknesses, ground-game, air-game, and all things Zamus vs Bats here.
"Try me."
Discuss character strengths, weaknesses, ground-game, air-game, and all things Zamus vs Bats here.
Got questions, opinions, or suggestions you want to share about other characters? Head over to the Meta Knight Match-Up Discussion Directory Thread or the Meta Knight Social/General Discussion; we're more than happy to help you.
Rules shamelessly borrowed from Ffamran (they're great rules!) said:Some rules, guidelines, and tips. Some of these are a given since you joined any forums.
1. Be respectful of each other. No insults, no trolling, no flaming, or any of that nonsense.
2. Be aware that some of the discussions can and will be old, so don't call out someone for "wrong" data if that post was referring to say, patch 1.03 stuff.
3. Be impartial; learn to see things from other sides. So, don't boast about all the advantages. Notice weaknesses and strengths from both parties.
4. Stay on topic.
5. Have fun.
ZSS Matchup Re-Discussion
40:60
Summary:
Playstyle:
- MK's hardest matchup because it forces a change of playstyle in order to not get bodied
- She takes away MK's strengths by being very difficult to juggle and edgeguard
- Possesses a similarly devastating punish game while having good SH spacing options in neutral to help avoid our ground moves
- Prioritise maintaining a lead. Bait from the air and from platforms to avoid her grab and poke her, try to punish any commitment
In most matchups MK likes to stay grounded, using his mobility and threatening mid-range to bait the enemy and to get in for a dash attack/grab punish. Against a good, defensive ZSS, this playstyle may well get MK destroyed. Trying to bait out a grab is obviously #thedream, it's so laggy that if it whiffs she is going to eat a big combo no matter what (her fall speed is good for our combos). Pay attention to the moments they want to grab and try to bait them into doing so. However a patient ZSS will usually only go for grabs if they're confident in a read or it is preceded by a setup move, eg. Paralyzer or Dsmash. Getting grabbed is very scary for MK because he is light and has a good fall speed for ZSS's combos. In order to avoid grabs we can use our good spotdodge and rolls, as well as FH or immediate double jump.
There are two ways to play out this matchup.
1) We can stay grounded in mid range and be very patient, attempting to bait out a commitment like a grab and punish her for it. Powershielding Paralyzer is good and can lead to baiting out a grab or, if you're fast enough you can simply dash attack/grab its endlag. This playstyle works pretty well against aggressive ZSS players (and aggressive players in general), but against defensive, baity, patient players, it is quite risky. Hitting shield is scary because ZSS has awesome OOS options in Up-B and Utilt, both of which kill. If we whiff anything with medium-to-high endlag eg. Tornado, Usmash, etc. we're going to eat a lot of %.
2) Stay airborne and on platforms as much as possible and poke and bait from there. This means ZSS can't grab you which is the main threat. Maintaining a lead is the primary focus so that she has to attack you, not the other way around. With good reaction time, we can punish her for poking at our shield with aerials if we're on a platform. And if we know she's going to commit to a move like USmash or even if she commits to a jump, we can fast-fall and punish that on read. Go hard on the punish and then go back to platform- and air-camping once she regains her footing. Uairs are fairly threatening but can be played around. Here is a video of Katakiri playing in this manner (on Wifi).
Get up options: avoid going for a normal getup or get up attack since she will often go for down smash the very first time you snap the ledge. We have one of the best get up rolls in the game, use it to avoid being down smashed on the edge which equals death (by Flip Kick), but make sure you mix it up with ledge drop double jump or ledge jump. Occasionally go for neutral get up but avoid doing it too often because it is so dangerous.
Juggling and edgeguarding: this is very difficult because of her extreme mobility. For example, with regards to juggling, she can flip jump out as soon as our combo ends and reset back to neutral. The only recovery which is remotely edgeguardable is Zair snap to the ledge, but it's difficult and if ZSS jumps straight away there's little you can do to punish. Flip Jump recovering high can be susceptible to Bair but be very careful.
Other points:
This video describes how to DI out of Boost Kick; a good watch. Essentially, say ZSS is facing right, smash DI to the left by holding the stick to the left and waggling it to the up-left and down-left positions (each time it goes between directions it counts as a SDI input). Make sure you DI the final hit down and away to survive as long as possible.
- Recover low almost always to avoid down-B
- Make use of DCape to get out of disadvantage situations but make sure to mix it up
- (rare) If ZSS hits our shield with down-B it is punishable with Usmash, also with Up-B but this is more risky.
DA > Uairs > Up-B kill %s:
20-39%, all 1st hitbox of dash attack
Stages:
- 20-23% 4 uairs to SL (100% rage)
- 24-28% 4 uairs to SL (100% rage)
- 28-32% 4 uairs to SL
- 29-31% 2 uairs to SL (100% rage)
- 32-33% 4 uairs to SL
- 34-36% 3 uairs to SL
- 37-39% 3 uairs to SL (extra jump before SL on FD)
BAN: Delfino, FD/Ω
PICK: Smashville, Battlefield
C/PICK: Halberd, T&C
Frame Data to expand your mind!:
Jab | 6, HYAYAYAYAYAYA, 30 | 1, 12-13, 23-24
Dash Attack | 7-11 | 7-9, 10-19
F-Tilt | 6, 12, 17 | 6-8
U-Tilt | 8-10, 8-14, 11-14 | 3-4, 9-10
D-Tilt | 3-4 | 8-9
Side Smash | 24 | 14-16, 27-29
Up Smash | 8, 12, 17 | 10-11, 22-?, 28-29
Down Smash | 4, 9 | 20-24
N-Air | 6-7, 8-20 | 10-11
F-Air | 9, 12, 15 | 6-7, 16-17
B-Air | 7-8, 13-14, 20-21 | 8-9
U-Air | 6 | 6-12
D-Air | 4 | 14-49, 1-2 (landing)
Grab | 7-8 | 16-29
Dash Grab | 9-10 | 16-29
Pivot Grab | 9-10 | 17-29
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