NewPotentialSpotFL: Tournaments/BootCamp

[KappaStr0ng]

Hey Everyone,

*** Warning block of text below. ***

I'm new to the Smash Boards but I'm trying to get some community feed back in regards to possibly starting a Lan Center that will cater to competitive console gaming. No casual play - GTA-V, Minecraft, & etc.. you can do that at home.

The idea is to play against as many new players as possible, so round robin is heavily encouraged. (Losers lose their seat if the venue is at capacity but can jump into another game/console when someone else loses.) This will keep people from hogging the consoles all day.

Location: Somewhere in FL (In a midway point between active gaming towns/communities.) The idea is to bridge the gap between active towns to cut travel time in half for those that like to travel and play new players/train.
[Will not disclose exact location until everything is final for obvious reasons.]

Square Footage: About 700 sq. ft. with the opportunity to expand into adjacent 1500 sq ft space next door. (Supply/Demand.)

Hours: M-Thurday (5pm-10pm), Friday (5pm-2am), Sat. (12pm-2am) Sun. (12pm-10pm) (Not set in stone at this point.)

Pricing: Will vary due to supply/demand. (If I had to guess it would be something like VSGaming, in regards to pricing.)

Hardware: (To start, 10 total 1v1 stations.)
10 x BenQ RL2460HT 24-Inch 1ms GTG LED-Lit Monitors
4 x PS4's
4 x XboxOne's
2 x WiiU's
2 x CRT Stations for BYOC (Bring Your Own Console for GameCube/Wii, lag-less play.)
Note: Depending on popularity, I could theoretically run all 10 stations on one Platform for Tournaments to move through the brackets quicker etc.. (Again supply/demand.)

Plaza Amenities: Pizza Restaurant that will more than likely sponsor events. (Full service bar for those of age.) They have an exterior seating area that I plan to reserve to stream whats happing in the LanCenter since the actual square footage is a bit limited. We will sell Regular Drinks/Snacks/etc.. (space is limited)

Layout: (Here comes the interesting part.)
Note: Everything is to spec/scale. It should look exactly the same if you were looking in from the outside.

What I'm looking for is honest/critical feedback. (I guess some trolling is to be expected.)

1. Is the venue too small? (Keep in mind the potential unit available next door which could be acquired depending on demand.)
2. Bar stools? (I know they won't be as comfy as couches but due to limited sq ft would they work? Keep in mind the round robin play aspect.)
3. Hours sound good? ( I'll be keeping my day job as the Lan Centers grows and becomes stable->profitable.)
4. Hardware, good choice of monitors and # of consoles? (There could potentially be 10 of each console to have "console specific days" during the week. Monitors are equivalent to what was used @ EVO 2015 (MainStage) )
5. Does the layout look good? (Center "U" shaped seating will be modular to add/remove seating for the 2 CRT stations.)

Anything else you guys can think of?

Be critical!

Also, I'm not looking to take customers from any other spots. I'm looking to bridge the gap. Our Lan Center vs Yours!

Thanks in advance.

 

[20YY SS | Saiblade]

I say do it over where there's basically no scene! (Cape Coral or Fort Myers). Venue looks big enough, Barstools are great. Hours are alright. I'd say add some more CRTs, as there will be a LOT of melee players and maybe some more space for people to bring their own. I love the layout. Also, if you'd take it I can already guarantee I'd work there for you, and my best friend would as well. Thanks for this, I hope you take my word into consideration, good luck, and thank you so much.

EDIT: I'd love to discuss everything about this with you. I'd love to connect with you on Skype @beywars.

 

[ChemX]

I actually don't think you should do this in Cape Coral / Fort Myers, because you would lose a lot of money tbh. I know a LAN owner that does his business in Miami (ceo of Versus) and he said if he could tell someone to not start a LAN that he would because it doesn't really bring in that much profit.

 

[20YY SS | Saiblade]

I actually don't think you should do this in Cape Coral / Fort Myers, because you would lose a lot of money tbh. I know a LAN owner that does his business in Miami (ceo of Versus) and he said if he could tell someone to not start a LAN that he would because it doesn't really bring in that much profit.

I didn't see him mention anywhere that he's doing this for profit, I'm guessing unlike others he's doing this for love of the community/game. Either way, I know at least 20ish people that would regularly go to the center.

 

[KappaStr0ng]

I say do it over where there's basically no scene! (Cape Coral or Fort Myers). Venue looks big enough, Barstools are great. Hours are alright. I'd say add some more CRTs, as there will be a LOT of melee players and maybe some more space for people to bring their own. I love the layout. Also, if you'd take it I can already guarantee I'd work there for you, and my best friend would as well. Thanks for this, I hope you take my word into consideration, good luck, and thank you so much.

EDIT: I'd love to discuss everything about this with you. I'd love to connect with you on Skype @beywars.

I can't disclose the location in mind as of yet but thanks for the suggestions. In the planned space 2 CRT's would be max since they occupy so much room. As for work, I appreciate the offer but I will probably run this establishment with my wife while we are in the starting stages. Thank you. =)

ChemX said: I actually don't think you should do this in Cape Coral / Fort Myers, because you would lose a lot of money tbh. I know a LAN owner that does his business in Miami (ceo of Versus) and he said if he could tell someone to not start a LAN that he would because it doesn't really bring in that much profit.

Hi ChemX and thanks for the input. I've seen many Lan Centers come and go in my day. I actually know of various owners that went under in the Miami, FL area during 2000-2007 so a lot of knowledge transfer has been transmitted in regards of what not to do. They all seem to have very similar reasons for going under but the #1 reason, which hurts the most, is:

Startup Cost/Return On Investment: PC's used to last you 3-5 years back in the day which made them viable to have at Lan Centers etc.. It made sense to have them since they would pay for themselves, and then some, in time before the next "refresh". Today, that's a different story. Every few months there's a new latest and greatest big ticket item that comes out which means that Lan Centers need to keep reinvesting continuously over and over.
Which is why I'm choosing consoles only from the get go. Offering only competitive console exclusive games. (Example: Just because CoD comes out on 8 different platforms doesn't mean that I'm going to buy the game for all 8 platforms. Also, casual games will not be bought since a "Lan/competitive" setting is not required/optimal to play these games.)

#2 Venue Size/Location: Cramped venues filled with computers turns into a locker room situation rather quickly, bleh! Consoles allow multiple users, per station, which in theory should help with the heat issue since it requires less hardware, which theoretically would generate less heat (compared to PC's). Also, its a lot easier to move people than it is your Console/PC Stations. =) On the other hand, larger venues introduce a scenario where the initial investment is way to large. No one wants 2,000 sq ft of commercial real estate with 5 Computers/Consoles in it. My idea is to expand it carefully as I see fit. Location wise, if I can partner up with local businesses and work "with them." I can easily get them to invest via sponsorship's/etc once they see that they are getting the things they need in return. Also, a smaller venue ='s a smaller lease which helps with operating cost overall. (In theory I can keep the venue running with just my extra income from my day job, which I plan to keep for a while.) So less Startup/Operating cost could lead to a quicker ROI, before having to re-invest. For future "refreshes" lets just say I'll be reaching out to mainstream equipment/accessory company's that would be willing to partner up if I can provide them with enough consistent exposure in their favor.

#3 It's a Business: Forgetting that the Lan Center was a business, instead of a gathering place for you (the owner) and your friends, seems to cause a lot loss in revenue. It also causes you to lose focus on the business itself. Luckily, I no longer live in Miami. So all of my friends/relatives are several hundred miles away. =)

At the end of the day if you find yourself sitting down with your customers playing videos games you are just setting yourself up to fail. It's a business whichever way you slice it.

EH | Saiblade said: I didn't see him mention anywhere that he's doing this for profit, I'm guessing unlike others he's doing this for love of the community/game. Either way, I know at least 20ish people that would regularly go to the center.

Obviously most business ventures are for profit. I don't plan on becoming a millionaire running a Lan Center but it would be nice to have some extra income doing something I love and have always been very passionate about. That being said, you won't see me playing any games (at least in the store). My time would be directed at continuously looking for new sponsors, making sure tournaments run quickly/smoothly, and moving the business forward. All while making sure the Lan Center doesn't turn into a day-care for parents to come and drop off their kids for a few hours, which is why my vision is to cater toward the competitive scene/etc and not casuals...

 

[20YY SS | Saiblade]

I can't disclose the location in mind as of yet but thanks for the suggestions. In the planned space 2 CRT's would be max since they occupy so much room. As for work, I appreciate the offer but I will probably run this establishment with my wife while we are in the starting stages. Thank you. =)



Hi ChemX and thanks for the input. I've seen many Lan Centers come and go in my day. I actually know various owners that went under in the Miami, FL area during 2000-2007 so a lot of knowledge transfer has been transmitted to me over time. They all seem to have very similar reasons for going under but the

#1 reason, which hurts the most, is startup cost/return on investment. PC's used to last you 3-5 years back in the day which made them viable to have at Lan Centers etc.. It made sense to have them since they would pay for themselves, and then some, in time before the next "refresh". Today, that's a different story. Every few months there's a new latest and greatest big ticket item that comes out which means that Lan Centers need to keep reinvesting continuously over and over.
Which is why I'm choosing consoles only from the get go. Offering only competitive console exclusive games. (Example: Just because CoD comes out on 8 different platforms doesn't mean that I'm going to buy the game for all 8 platforms. Also, casual games will not be bought since a "Lan/competitive" setting is not required/optimal to play these games.)

#2 venue size/location Cramped venues filled with computers turns into a locker room situation rather quickly, bleh! Consoles allow multiple users, per station, which in theory should help with the heat issue since it requires less hardware. Also, its a lot easier to move people than it is your console/pc stations. =) On the other hand, larger venues introduce a scenario where the initial investment is way to large. No one wants 2,000 sq ft of commercial real estate with 5 computers/consoles in it. My idea is to expand it carefully as I see fit . Location wise, if I can partner up with local businesses and work "with them." I can easily get them to invest via sponsorship's/etc once they see that they are getting the things they need in return. Also, a smaller venue ='s a smaller lease which helps with operating cost overall. (In theory I can keep the venue running with just my extra income from my day job, which I plan to keep.) So less startup/operating cost could lead to a quicker ROI of the initial investment. For future "refreshes" lets just say I know a few people that work for, or are associated with, large/small equipment company's that would be willing to partner up as long as I can provide them enough consistent exposure.

#3 was forgetting that the Lan Center was a business, instead of a gathering place for you (the owner) and your friends. Luckily, I no longer live in Miami so all my friends are several hundred miles away. =)

At the end of the day if you find yourself sitting down with your customers playing videos games then you are setting yourself up to fail. It's a business whichever way you slice it.



Obviously any business venture is for profit. I don't plan on becoming a millionaire running a Lan Center but it would be nice to have some extra income doing something I love and am very passionate about. That being said, you won't see me playing any games (at least in the store). My time would be directed at continuously looking for new sponsors, making sure tournaments run quickly/smoothly, and moving the business forward. All while making sure the center doesn't turn into a day care where people come and drop off their kids for a few hours, which is why my vision is to cater toward the competitive scene/etc and not casuals...

I understand, that being said I still think SWFL would be a good location. Anyway, good luck with this, I'd love to hear from you again.

 

[KappaStr0ng]

I actually don't think you should do this in Cape Coral / Fort Myers, because you would lose a lot of money tbh. I know a LAN owner that does his business in Miami (ceo of Versus) and he said if he could tell someone to not start a LAN that he would because it doesn't really bring in that much profit.

ChemX,
Besides the feedback you listed above, does the layout/hardware/seating/hours seem adequate for a small startup?

Anyone else feel free to chime in. The more feedback the better!

 

[KappaStr0ng]

I understand, that being said I still think SWFL would be a good location. Anyway, good luck with this, I'd love to hear from you again.

I will try and be as informative as possible when I'm ready to start "breaking ground" on this venture. Thanks for the feedback!

 

[RomanDogg (YT)]

Do one in Miami there are no Smash tournaments at all in Miami and is this for Smash Wii U?

 

[20YY SS | Saiblade]

Do one in Miami there are no Smash tournaments at all in Miami and is this for Smash Wii U?

Uhm? Miami has a pretty nice scene. Not to mention VS Gaming isn't too far from Miami.

 

[WispBae]

Cape Coral would be an excellent spot, in my opinion, as the scene there is pretty under represented. If weeklies got set up there as well, I know FL smashers would definitely make trips over to practice. Hell, a bunch of us central FL peeps going to Winter Garden, VS, and Tampa on the regular.

I'd say go for it, work with the community. Smash 4's popularity brings in many new players, and FL is already a hot spot for Melee.

 

[KappaStr0ng]

Do one in Miami there are no Smash tournaments at all in Miami and is this for Smash Wii U?

As stated above. Miami has a decent scene. I hear FIU has a pretty active smash group on the regular.

 

[KappaStr0ng]

Cape Coral would be an excellent spot, in my opinion, as the scene there is pretty under represented. If weeklies got set up there as well, I know FL smashers would definitely make trips over to practice. Hell, a bunch of us central FL peeps going to Winter Garden, VS, and Tampa on the regular.

I'd say go for it, work with the community. Smash 4's popularity brings in many new players, and FL is already a hot spot for Melee.

Agreed. Which is why I'm looking to fill the gap in between places so people don't have to commute as far all the time. (It won't be in Miami, that I can guarantee.) As for the location, as I've said before.., I can't share that information at the moment but my focus is to fill the gap.

Does the venue seem to be a good size? (To start out?)
Are the bar stools a problem?
How about the hours?
Does the layout work?

 

[WispBae]

Agreed. Which is why I'm looking to fill the gap in between places so people don't have to commute as far all the time. (It won't be in Miami, that I can guarantee.) As for the location, as I've said before.., I can't share that information at the moment but my focus is to fill the gap.

Does the venue seem to be a good size? (To start out?)
Are the bar stools a problem?
How about the hours?
Does the layout work?

The venue size should be alright, there are smaller venues here that get the job done.

The barstools I think would be an issue, if you're looking to host the competetive scene, especially fighting games. People need to put fight sticks in their laps, and games with intense tech skill could lead to involuntary body movements. Maybe if the stools could be lowered to allow feet to be on the ground? Would need some testing.

Hours should be alright for you, just be wary that you do need sleep. If you are hoping to host weeklies, Fridays and Saturdays will be your best bet. Just need a couple good TO's (ask @ 20YY SS | Saiblade to help).

As for layout, I'm not too sure, to be honest... Maybe on weekends you could pull out a couple extra plastic tables to make space you need for TV's/Consoles/streaming equipment.

What is the circular piece in the center of the room, but the way? It is like a bench?

 

[KappaStr0ng]

The venue size should be alright, there are smaller venues here that get the job done.

The barstools I think would be an issue, if you're looking to host the competetive scene, especially fighting games. People need to put fight sticks in their laps, and games with intense tech skill could lead to involuntary body movements. Maybe if the stools could be lowered to allow feet to be on the ground? Would need some testing.

Hours should be alright for you, just be wary that you do need sleep. If you are hoping to host weeklies, Fridays and Saturdays will be your best bet. Just need a couple good TO's (ask @ 20YY SS | Saiblade to help).

As for layout, I'm not too sure, to be honest... Maybe on weekends you could pull out a couple extra plastic tables to make space you need for TV's/Consoles/streaming equipment.

What is the circular piece in the center of the room, but the way? It is like a bench?

Hi Wispy and thanks for the feedback.

Bar stools: Yes, I agree. If i go that route I plan to mount tables/monitors at proper height to a player having the bar stool lowered all the way down (making them less wobbly as well) with both feet planted. This is only a temporary setup/idea while we start up in the small venue. Not much room for couches/gaming chairs/etc. -I guess the cheap-o chairs you usually see at banquet halls could work as well?? That might be a better option since they are stack-able. I'll consider it.
Something like these:

Thoughts?

Hours: Sleep, yes.. sleep is good. =) Luckily I have the full support of my lovely wife which can run the show if I need some extra ZZzz's.

TO's/Casters: Definitely will need to find a few dedicated TO's/Casters for each game genre. (Keep in mind the venue won't be exclusive to Smash/PM/Melee/etc..) Pretty much anything that can take advantage of a LAN setting in order to be played competitively, or for practice, will be available. However, popularity will determine which games get more tournaments/exposure. This does mean that the chances of finding games like GTAV/Minecraft/etc.. are pretty much non-existent. (unless they go Pro? wtf..??)

Layout: Temporary extra tables/etc.. That's a possibility. However, I don't want the space to be overly cramped and look like a Lan Center in Tokyo or something (Also, I believe there are Fire Marshall issues with this kind of stuff.) This is why I'll definitely need to go LCD heavy over CRT. (At least for the beginning. Maybe wall-mounted CRT's, over the LCD's, could work.. but due to their weight I'd have to test it to make sure they don't come crashing down =(. Also, in a scenario like this they won't be as big which could cause viewing issues since they would sit further away from the players.)
-Are the BenQ's listed above not adequate enough for at least Smash 4? (I realize they won't be a fan favorite for the players on "previous gen" consoles.) However, they are the same model/spec used at the latest EVO on the main stage. (I believe they used CRT's to get through the brackets for the non on-stream rounds.. but the BenQ's were used on the main-stage.)

Streaming Equipment: I actually already have a personal streaming rig that is 1080p @ 60fps capable (with pass-through, so no added input lag, via PCI-e for a true lag-less capture/stream) and luckily the place is pre-wired with Verizon FiOS so 500Mbps/500Mbps is available if ever needed. (Obviously, I will adjust the speeds according to demand.)

Circular piece in the middle: Yes, it's a bench concept. Not a final design idea. I'm starting to think I'll need to have something like banquet hall chairs available at all times to provide enough seating. (At least during events.) The fact that the banquet hall chairs are stack-able is a plus too.

For the lurkers out there! Please feel free to add your .2cents. Any and all feedback is greatly appreciated bad, or good. I'm really interested in hearing what everyone has to say.

 

[20YY SS | Saiblade]

Hi Wispy and thanks for the feedback.

Bar stools: Yes, I agree. If i go that route I plan to mount tables/monitors at proper height to a player having the bar stool lowered all the way down (making them less wobbly as well) with both feet planted. This is only a temporary setup/idea while we start up in the small venue. Not much room for couches/gaming chairs/etc. -I guess the cheap-o chairs you usually see at banquet halls could work as well?? That might be a better option since they are stack-able. I'll consider it.
Something like these:

Thoughts?

Hours: Sleep, yes.. sleep is good. =) Luckily I have the full support of my lovely wife which can run the show if I need some extra ZZzz's.

TO's/Casters: Definitely will need to find a few dedicated TO's/Casters for each game genre. (Keep in mind the venue won't be exclusive to Smash/PM/Melee/etc..) Pretty much anything that can take advantage of a LAN setting in order to be played competitively, or for practice, will be available. However, popularity will determine which games get more tournaments/exposure. This does mean that the chances of finding games like GTAV/Minecraft/etc.. are pretty much non-existent. (unless they go Pro? wtf..??)

Layout: Temporary extra tables/etc.. That's a possibility. However, I don't want the space to be overly cramped and look like a Lan Center in Tokyo or something (Also, I believe there are Fire Marshall issues with this kind of stuff.) This is why I'll definitely need to go LCD heavy over CRT. (At least for the beginning. Maybe wall-mounted CRT's, over the LCD's, could work.. but due to their weight I'd have to test it to make sure they don't come crashing down =(. Also, in a scenario like this they won't be as big which could cause viewing issues since they would sit further away from the players.)
-Are the BenQ's listed above not adequate enough for at least Smash 4? (I realize they won't be a fan favorite for the players on "previous gen" consoles.) However, they are the same model/spec used at the latest EVO on the main stage. (I believe they used CRT's to get through the brackets for the non on-stream rounds.. but the BenQ's were used on the main-stage.)

Streaming Equipment: I actually already have a personal streaming rig that is 1080p @ 60fps capable (with pass-through, so no added input lag, via PCI-e for a true lag-less capture/stream) and luckily the place is pre-wired with Verizon FiOS so 500Mbps/500Mbps is available if ever needed. (Obviously, I will adjust the speeds according to demand.)

Circular piece in the middle: Yes, it's a bench concept. Not a final design idea. I'm starting to think I'll need to have something like banquet hall chairs available at all times to provide enough seating. (At least during events.) The fact that the banquet hall chairs are stack-able is a plus too.

For the lurkers out there! Please feel free to add your .2cents. Any and all feedback is greatly appreciated bad, or good. I'm really interested in hearing what everyone has to say.

Thoughts on the first paragraph:
The chairs would definitely need a back, but I don't really support the idea of those cheap-o-chairs, they're pretty uncomfortable sometimes, really depends on which ones though.

TOs/Casters: If this is near me, I'd love to do both, I used to stream regularly (haven't been recently cause of school related stuff). As for the game genre, I'd love to do Melee and PM, Smash 4 if you REALLY want me to, but it isn't really my cup of tea. For other things, it'd just depend on if I play them. P.S I can also do logos/overlays, as I'm proficient in photoshop.

Layout: I think this layout is good, but you definitely need to figure out a way to get more CRTs, as Melee will most likely be the most popular game there. Wall-Mounted CRTs would be good, but they'd have to be at a good height. BenQ's are great for Smash 4. EVO used CRT's for top 32, I can provide video proof if you'd like.

Streaming Equipment: Nice! Hopefully that can be put to good use. One question, "the place is pre-wired with Verizon FiOS". Does that mean you've got a location set already?

Regarding chairs for events: If there's enough room, using a projector and having banquet chairs set up in orderly fashion would be AMAZING!

 

[20YY SS | Saiblade]

Don't mean to rush anything or be impatient, but any updates?

 

[KappaStr0ng]

Don't mean to rush anything or be impatient, but any updates?

A small update and well... not really a great one. The city planners office will not allow the "business" to be created/established as it's intended to be (Console/PC Gaming/Tournaments). They pretty much deemed it as "Gambling" due to the nature of cash/monies being exchanged during tournament play. I asked about 1099-MISC'ing the winners, when over a certain amount to keep things "legal/legit", and that was still a no go. The only way to actually push forward with this, at the moment, would be to open the business with fictitious intentions, like not saying you're hosting cash tournaments, "lying" about it, and doing it anyway. Not sure I want to take the time, or make the investment, on a business that could be closed down immediately by a city if/when they see fit. I'm sure they'll drag this out for quite a while. Lets see how it ends up.

 

[20YY SS | Saiblade]

Ouch, that's not very good. Though I don't see how that's gambling, city rules I guess. Hopefully, you can just get it started as a chill place, and not tell them you're having tournaments, as that's what most places do, not sure how you'd like to go ahead with that though.