Kanunuu
Smash Cadet
- Joined
- Jun 4, 2015
- Messages
- 56
This will probably be a huge guide that I'll be revisiting multiple times as I expand on it, but I'll be trying to get the optimal follow ups for each move the you would use in neutral. All testing was done in training on mario. I give general percents to account for staling and rage.
I'll be reviewing the most common moves he uses in neutral.
Nair:
Low percents- jab is the only guaranteed follow up, and only if you land as soon as you throw it out. 0~30%. If you expect them to shield, a grab is a good mixup and can result in good damage.
Low mid percents- a pp uptilt can be a good follow up and can potentially rack up huge damage, however this is difficult to confirm due to how short of a window you have to confirm it. A less rewarding option is to just dash attack on reaction of the hit. 30~45%
Mid percents- Past this point the best confirm you have dash attack. It will set up for a short hop up air which will frame trap if they air dodge and catch their jump. If they have a fast nair, you can shield, or pp uptilt to punish. The optimal frame trap punish is an uptilt. This can lead to cycles of frame traps for big damage. If you do catch them with the short hop up air, a second one is possible if the percent is right. Another follow up is side b. However the angle in which they are sent at is unreliable, and probably suboptimal. However it looks sick, and can get in your opponents head.
High percents: At low high percents it's possible to follow up with upsmash, but it won't kill. Dash attack would be favored in this situation since it won't stale and can lead to up airs and frame traps. From around 80~95 percent you can go for the up smash, and there's a good chance it will kill. The dash must be buffered though, and even when it isn't guaranteed, a 50/50 situation will be created. Past around 100% for most characters, lasers is the only followup. But it should be noted that you can read their jump if they are hit in such a way that they would land on stage. This will usually kill if up air hasn't staled too bad.
It should be noted that weak nair will rarely ever guarantee an up smash, but it will set up for a tech chase that most people miss.
Dair (grounded hit):
Low percents- A jab is guaranteed but a grab is more rewarding, and is almost always guaranteed. 0~15%
Mid percents- A dash grab is a good follow up, and a perfect pivot up tilt is also a good option if they are above a certain percent. 35~60%
Mid/high percents- Past the point where pp uptilt no longer connects. From this point on, you have to react to the trajectory that you send them and determine whether or not dash attack, up smash, or rar bair will connect. The most damaging follow up is up smash, but it might not always kill, so it is important not to stale it. 60~130%
Dair (auto cancelled):
It will be difficult to determine what exactly is optimal, due to the sheer number of follow ups this move has.
Low percents: Definitely the optimal punish is footstool here. You can get upwards of 60 percent guaranteed damage if you execute properly. The follow ups here are largely under explored in my opinion. From the footstool, a weak nair fast fall into double f tilt will jab lock the opponent. This is where things get crazy. I'll try to make a list of all the possible follow ups, and you can determine the best punish from there.
After the jab lock you can follow up with another auto cancelled dair, into another footstool. The reason this could be considered sub optimal, is because they can di out of the footstool, and following up with the weak nair will be difficult. But not impossible. This cycle can continue up until around 50 percent, when the weal nair and f tilt no longer jab reset. (It should be noted that the weak nair can continue to jab lock, even after f tilt will no long.) After the final jab lock you wish to do or are able to, there are many follow ups fox can do.
Fox can auto cancel back air. This will work on almost every character that he can hit with the auto cancelled dair. After the auto cancel, he can follow up with grab, dash attack, or perfect pivot uptilt. It may also be possible to follow up with standing footstool to fire fox for huge damage. This is very dependent on percent however, due to how much knock back bair has. This can lead to big damage, and can effectively keep your other moves from staling as hard. It's important to note that the only way to land the back air after the jab lock is to pp sh bair. This is due to the length between you and your opponent after the jab lock. If you lock with weak nair, a turn around bair is possible.
Fox can also land with up air after the jab lock. This can lead into a guaranteed up air for big damage. If they are under a platform, (which is almost an impossible situation to occur due to how the footstool and full hop dair work), you can land with up air, full hop up air auto cancel, and double jump up air for a kill. This information is virtually useless, since the percent range is so tight, and the platform situation is so rare. Interesting to note that fox has a zero to death though. Fox is Bayonetta confirmed.
You can also just charge an f smash for damage and positioning, a good mixup is to immediately perfect pivot following the f smash. This is a lot easier to preform then the aforementioned.
If you decide not to extend the foot stool combos, you can simply auto cancel the dair into a short hop up air to full hop up air. Good damage and can lead into juggle situations. All in all this will be safer than the extensions and is about 75 percent guaranteed damage.
Fox can also follow up with the pivot butt-tilt. I'll cover the follow ups below. It should be noted that you have to do a quick dash dances or walk back if there is not enough distance in between you and your opponent after the jab lock. Similar to the ac bair. It might be possible to follow up the f tilt with a standing foot stool to fire fox.
Mid/high percents- A back air or up air is guaranteed. If you can't follow up with up air, or don't want to stale it, than bair is preferred. If you can follow up the up air onto a platfrom, you can potentially follow up with another one, and kill. At high percents, an up air or back air will kill if not too heavily staled.
Up tilt: This move has 5 different hitboxes, but I'll mainly be talking about when both you and your opponent are grounded.
Low percents- From around 0~25, another up tilt is not guaranteed, so it is best to either roll away or behind, or to turnaround grab. This is because if they decide use an offensive approach, you will be hit regardless of what happens, and they shield to punish the following uptilt you can grab to mix them up. Shielding puts you at a disadvantage if they are not in front of you.
Low/mid percents- From around 30~40 percent, you can follow up with another up tilt. This really all comes from feel of their trajectory and hit stun and will take practice knowing when to choose which option. You can potentially keep them in the up tilt chain until a certain percentage. From here it depends on di. If they di into you, they will go on the other side of you, and you can follow up with turn around up tilt. You can also follow up with sh up air if they get launched high enough. It's important to know when to shield a fast attack such as mario and luigi nair, or pikachu thunder. If they don't have a fast move such as this you can potentially rack upwards of 50 percent, as they will eventually be hit by an up air. If they airdodge fox can frame trap them if he reads their drift in the air. You can cover the airdodge with uptilt, pp uptilt, and turnaround up tilt. From here they are in a prime position to juggle.
High percents-
fox can potentially get a kill confirm at high percentages. But this is dependent on whether or not foxes up tilt is stale, whether or not his up air is stale, and if they di poorly or don't di. At, around 170%, up tilt will kill. This significantly lowers with rage.
Hit box 1- This is the hit box that hits below the stage. It sends the opponent straight up. Usually difficult to follow up with. Only guaranteed follow up is at kill percents.
Hit box 2- This is the ground hitbox, I already discussed this
Hit box 3- This is above him and functions very similarly to hit box 1, but sends them slightly behind you.
Hit box 4- This is directly in front of you, and is a really solid kill confirm at high percents. It sends them straight up, and has low knock back. Guaranteeing the up air.
Hit box 5- This is also in front of you, but a little further. It is foxes foot. It sends them behind you. Making full hop bair the only kill confirm.
Dash attack: A pretty simple move.
Low percents: Don't use it at low percents. But if you must, up tilt is the best follow up.
Low mid percents: Air dodge 50/50 sh up air.
Mid/high percents: Airdodge 50/50 fh up air.
Pivot butt tilt: When fox dashes and pivot f tilts. Has a myriad of follow ups and is safe on shield usually.
Low percents- A grab or jab is usually guaranteed.
Low/mid percents- a turn around or dash grab is guaranteed, an up tilt and pp up tilt is as well but from there the follow ups vary.
High percents- An upsmash is guaranteed. Past that a rar bair is.
I don't think it's the best move to be honest, but it's definitely stylish.
Jab- Frame 2, and has sick nasty mixups. Jab two has to different hit boxes that set up for different things. One sends you slightly away and one sends you up. I've started using ac dair as a mixup after the jab.
Low percents- jab jab--> grab, jab jab-->
0~35%
Mid percents- From here you can mix things up further due to your mixups being usable.
Jab jab--> grab, jab jab pp uptilt, jab jab--> finisher. 35~100%
High percents--> This is when jab becomes a kill setup. This is dependent on which hit box of the second jab you get. If you hit them close up or spaced will result in differing hit boxes. The upwards launch will be known has hit box 1, and away as hit box 2.
Hit box 1- Jab jab--> up smash. Not very safe, but somewhat reliable and easy. Jab jab--> pp uptilt. This will result in hot box 3 of up tilt, setting up for a kill confirm. Jab jab--> footstool, down air --> upsmash. It's important to note that fast moves will beat these out. Simply shielding to up smash oos will do the trick here. Some nairs such as marios, must be power shielded to punish. This also solves the issue of them airdodging.
Hit box 2- This puts them in a perfect position for a pp uptilt, and sweet spot down tilt, which both can confirm into up air. Up smash will never connect before the shield so don't try it. If you expect a shield, you can turn around bair to keep pressure up.
Grab- I already made a post about this, but I'll do a quick summary anyway.
Down throw:
Low percents- If they di into you, an up air or fair into up air is guaranteed. If they di away, a rar bair is possible, and so is a sh ff fair. This can lead to a jab lock, or tech chase.
Mid/high percents- Fox can get a guaranteed up air if they di in, but if they di away the only solid follow up is lasers.
If you want stage positioning use up throw, back throw or f throw.
CONCLUSION: Fox is crazy. I don't know how many times I used the word perfect pivot. 20XX is still here. It's important that your learn all of these confirms, as a solid punish game can take you to the next level. Knowing these punishes can improve your neutral as well as they give you an idea of what to go for. Fox is so powerful in the right hands, and I expect him to rise in the tier list as his punish game improves.
If I missed anything let me know. This took a few hours to write and lab, so feedback would be appreciated.
I'll be reviewing the most common moves he uses in neutral.
Nair:
Low percents- jab is the only guaranteed follow up, and only if you land as soon as you throw it out. 0~30%. If you expect them to shield, a grab is a good mixup and can result in good damage.
Low mid percents- a pp uptilt can be a good follow up and can potentially rack up huge damage, however this is difficult to confirm due to how short of a window you have to confirm it. A less rewarding option is to just dash attack on reaction of the hit. 30~45%
Mid percents- Past this point the best confirm you have dash attack. It will set up for a short hop up air which will frame trap if they air dodge and catch their jump. If they have a fast nair, you can shield, or pp uptilt to punish. The optimal frame trap punish is an uptilt. This can lead to cycles of frame traps for big damage. If you do catch them with the short hop up air, a second one is possible if the percent is right. Another follow up is side b. However the angle in which they are sent at is unreliable, and probably suboptimal. However it looks sick, and can get in your opponents head.
High percents: At low high percents it's possible to follow up with upsmash, but it won't kill. Dash attack would be favored in this situation since it won't stale and can lead to up airs and frame traps. From around 80~95 percent you can go for the up smash, and there's a good chance it will kill. The dash must be buffered though, and even when it isn't guaranteed, a 50/50 situation will be created. Past around 100% for most characters, lasers is the only followup. But it should be noted that you can read their jump if they are hit in such a way that they would land on stage. This will usually kill if up air hasn't staled too bad.
It should be noted that weak nair will rarely ever guarantee an up smash, but it will set up for a tech chase that most people miss.
Dair (grounded hit):
Low percents- A jab is guaranteed but a grab is more rewarding, and is almost always guaranteed. 0~15%
Mid percents- A dash grab is a good follow up, and a perfect pivot up tilt is also a good option if they are above a certain percent. 35~60%
Mid/high percents- Past the point where pp uptilt no longer connects. From this point on, you have to react to the trajectory that you send them and determine whether or not dash attack, up smash, or rar bair will connect. The most damaging follow up is up smash, but it might not always kill, so it is important not to stale it. 60~130%
Dair (auto cancelled):
It will be difficult to determine what exactly is optimal, due to the sheer number of follow ups this move has.
Low percents: Definitely the optimal punish is footstool here. You can get upwards of 60 percent guaranteed damage if you execute properly. The follow ups here are largely under explored in my opinion. From the footstool, a weak nair fast fall into double f tilt will jab lock the opponent. This is where things get crazy. I'll try to make a list of all the possible follow ups, and you can determine the best punish from there.
After the jab lock you can follow up with another auto cancelled dair, into another footstool. The reason this could be considered sub optimal, is because they can di out of the footstool, and following up with the weak nair will be difficult. But not impossible. This cycle can continue up until around 50 percent, when the weal nair and f tilt no longer jab reset. (It should be noted that the weak nair can continue to jab lock, even after f tilt will no long.) After the final jab lock you wish to do or are able to, there are many follow ups fox can do.
Fox can auto cancel back air. This will work on almost every character that he can hit with the auto cancelled dair. After the auto cancel, he can follow up with grab, dash attack, or perfect pivot uptilt. It may also be possible to follow up with standing footstool to fire fox for huge damage. This is very dependent on percent however, due to how much knock back bair has. This can lead to big damage, and can effectively keep your other moves from staling as hard. It's important to note that the only way to land the back air after the jab lock is to pp sh bair. This is due to the length between you and your opponent after the jab lock. If you lock with weak nair, a turn around bair is possible.
Fox can also land with up air after the jab lock. This can lead into a guaranteed up air for big damage. If they are under a platform, (which is almost an impossible situation to occur due to how the footstool and full hop dair work), you can land with up air, full hop up air auto cancel, and double jump up air for a kill. This information is virtually useless, since the percent range is so tight, and the platform situation is so rare. Interesting to note that fox has a zero to death though. Fox is Bayonetta confirmed.
You can also just charge an f smash for damage and positioning, a good mixup is to immediately perfect pivot following the f smash. This is a lot easier to preform then the aforementioned.
If you decide not to extend the foot stool combos, you can simply auto cancel the dair into a short hop up air to full hop up air. Good damage and can lead into juggle situations. All in all this will be safer than the extensions and is about 75 percent guaranteed damage.
Fox can also follow up with the pivot butt-tilt. I'll cover the follow ups below. It should be noted that you have to do a quick dash dances or walk back if there is not enough distance in between you and your opponent after the jab lock. Similar to the ac bair. It might be possible to follow up the f tilt with a standing foot stool to fire fox.
Mid/high percents- A back air or up air is guaranteed. If you can't follow up with up air, or don't want to stale it, than bair is preferred. If you can follow up the up air onto a platfrom, you can potentially follow up with another one, and kill. At high percents, an up air or back air will kill if not too heavily staled.
Up tilt: This move has 5 different hitboxes, but I'll mainly be talking about when both you and your opponent are grounded.
Low percents- From around 0~25, another up tilt is not guaranteed, so it is best to either roll away or behind, or to turnaround grab. This is because if they decide use an offensive approach, you will be hit regardless of what happens, and they shield to punish the following uptilt you can grab to mix them up. Shielding puts you at a disadvantage if they are not in front of you.
Low/mid percents- From around 30~40 percent, you can follow up with another up tilt. This really all comes from feel of their trajectory and hit stun and will take practice knowing when to choose which option. You can potentially keep them in the up tilt chain until a certain percentage. From here it depends on di. If they di into you, they will go on the other side of you, and you can follow up with turn around up tilt. You can also follow up with sh up air if they get launched high enough. It's important to know when to shield a fast attack such as mario and luigi nair, or pikachu thunder. If they don't have a fast move such as this you can potentially rack upwards of 50 percent, as they will eventually be hit by an up air. If they airdodge fox can frame trap them if he reads their drift in the air. You can cover the airdodge with uptilt, pp uptilt, and turnaround up tilt. From here they are in a prime position to juggle.
High percents-
fox can potentially get a kill confirm at high percentages. But this is dependent on whether or not foxes up tilt is stale, whether or not his up air is stale, and if they di poorly or don't di. At, around 170%, up tilt will kill. This significantly lowers with rage.
Hit box 1- This is the hit box that hits below the stage. It sends the opponent straight up. Usually difficult to follow up with. Only guaranteed follow up is at kill percents.
Hit box 2- This is the ground hitbox, I already discussed this
Hit box 3- This is above him and functions very similarly to hit box 1, but sends them slightly behind you.
Hit box 4- This is directly in front of you, and is a really solid kill confirm at high percents. It sends them straight up, and has low knock back. Guaranteeing the up air.
Hit box 5- This is also in front of you, but a little further. It is foxes foot. It sends them behind you. Making full hop bair the only kill confirm.
Dash attack: A pretty simple move.
Low percents: Don't use it at low percents. But if you must, up tilt is the best follow up.
Low mid percents: Air dodge 50/50 sh up air.
Mid/high percents: Airdodge 50/50 fh up air.
Pivot butt tilt: When fox dashes and pivot f tilts. Has a myriad of follow ups and is safe on shield usually.
Low percents- A grab or jab is usually guaranteed.
Low/mid percents- a turn around or dash grab is guaranteed, an up tilt and pp up tilt is as well but from there the follow ups vary.
High percents- An upsmash is guaranteed. Past that a rar bair is.
I don't think it's the best move to be honest, but it's definitely stylish.
Jab- Frame 2, and has sick nasty mixups. Jab two has to different hit boxes that set up for different things. One sends you slightly away and one sends you up. I've started using ac dair as a mixup after the jab.
Low percents- jab jab--> grab, jab jab-->
0~35%
Mid percents- From here you can mix things up further due to your mixups being usable.
Jab jab--> grab, jab jab pp uptilt, jab jab--> finisher. 35~100%
High percents--> This is when jab becomes a kill setup. This is dependent on which hit box of the second jab you get. If you hit them close up or spaced will result in differing hit boxes. The upwards launch will be known has hit box 1, and away as hit box 2.
Hit box 1- Jab jab--> up smash. Not very safe, but somewhat reliable and easy. Jab jab--> pp uptilt. This will result in hot box 3 of up tilt, setting up for a kill confirm. Jab jab--> footstool, down air --> upsmash. It's important to note that fast moves will beat these out. Simply shielding to up smash oos will do the trick here. Some nairs such as marios, must be power shielded to punish. This also solves the issue of them airdodging.
Hit box 2- This puts them in a perfect position for a pp uptilt, and sweet spot down tilt, which both can confirm into up air. Up smash will never connect before the shield so don't try it. If you expect a shield, you can turn around bair to keep pressure up.
Grab- I already made a post about this, but I'll do a quick summary anyway.
Down throw:
Low percents- If they di into you, an up air or fair into up air is guaranteed. If they di away, a rar bair is possible, and so is a sh ff fair. This can lead to a jab lock, or tech chase.
Mid/high percents- Fox can get a guaranteed up air if they di in, but if they di away the only solid follow up is lasers.
If you want stage positioning use up throw, back throw or f throw.
CONCLUSION: Fox is crazy. I don't know how many times I used the word perfect pivot. 20XX is still here. It's important that your learn all of these confirms, as a solid punish game can take you to the next level. Knowing these punishes can improve your neutral as well as they give you an idea of what to go for. Fox is so powerful in the right hands, and I expect him to rise in the tier list as his punish game improves.
If I missed anything let me know. This took a few hours to write and lab, so feedback would be appreciated.
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