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Pit Matchup Discussion - Toon Link. (MT linked)

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darkspatan117

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They Die More or less at the same rate since Pit doesn't ko all that well but he is heavier and gimp better while TL is lighter he kill better but has difficulty seting up his ko. Also TL can't really projectile spam against Pit because of his arrow I think it's a very close match maybe 50:50
 

Coffee™

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Toon Link, a character simlar to Pit in his own right. Excellent projectile game, average ground game and a pretty good aerial game, all of these similarities may sound like you're playing a mirror match but you'd be a bit of a way off in that assumption.

Toon Link has 3 projectiles, Bombs, Arrows and a Boomerang. Most of the time these would overwhelm other characters and lend towards his advantage in most matches, but it's a slightly different case with Pit. Pit's two reflectors in conjunction with his own projectile, Palutena's Arrow, will keep Toon Link's projectile game at bay but don't let this fool you into thinking the matchup will be easy as it's far from.

Close range combat is just about average for both characters, and the winner here will mostly be determined by who is the more experienced player, however, Toon Link does have some nice options for close ranged fighting. His jab combo which helps him with spacing and his U-Tilt easily combos into a variety of other moves. Toon Link's Smashes also come out relatively fast but are for the most part fairly predictable and can be avoided. Fsmash is comprised of two hits with the second hit being the "killing blow". You can DI out of the second hit though and there is some lag before Toon Link actually does the second slash, so there is enough time to jab or grab him provided you shielded the first hit. Usmash is Toon Link's main kill move and it is relatively fast but after you reach about 100% or so you can expect it to be more frequently used so act accordingly.

Toon Link strongest points in this matchup lie in his mid range arsenal which will mostly consist of Toon Links aerial attacks and the occasional Bomb tossed around from time to time. All of Toon Link's aerials have some purpose to expect to see them mixing them up to throw you off. Bair is Toon Link's best comboing aerial/move and can easily rack up damage if you aren't careful. It can also combo into his Dair which can spike you, so be on the look out for that. It should be noted that Pit's Uair can outprioritize Toon Link's Dair but only if the blades of your attack are the only thing that connect with Toon Link's blade, otherwise you'll be on the recieving end of the attack, and that might not go so well, especially if you're off stage for some reason. Toon Link's Fair and Uair are normally used as kill moves, but keep in mind Fair can also be used to combo into itself at lower percentages and Zair which autocancels is generally used for spacing. Pit has his own good options for mid range play, Angel Ring, retreating Nairs and Fairs are all work well if spaced correctly but, you're definitely going to be at a disadvantage if you try to take on Toon Link at this distance and you should be better off retreating once you find yourself in such a position.

Pit gains somewhat of an advantage when it comes to edgeguarding but Toon Link is definitely no slouch and can gimp an unprepared Pit with relative ease with his own WOP of Bairs and his myriad of projectiles to take out Pits Up B. Toon Link also has great horizontal movement and excellent vertical movement with his UpB as well as a tether recovery so he definitely has a variety of ways of getting back to the stage. Aim to take out his second jump with an Arrow then try proceed to WOP him off the stage is the easiest way to go from Pits point of view, yes it sounds generic and fairly easy, but Toon Link is a small target for your Arrows and has quite a few ways of making it back to the stage as previously mentioned, there is also the issue of his Dair which can spike you if you mistime one of your off the stage Fairs, so be careful when attempting a WOP. Your Mirror Shield can also reflect his recovery but it carries him so high he might just make it back to the stage anyway or you will still be forced to hug the ledge to prevent him from grabbing it on his fall.

Overall the matchup is mostly about spacing and the amount of pressure each side can apply to the other and really just a test to see who is the more skilled player. However in terms of characters this matchup is more or less even.
Ok finished the TL write up.
 

Admiral Pit

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I believe the real thing that could trouble Pit in the matchup is TL's speed, quick aerials, and projectiles (yes, even if Pit gots reflectors). TL outcamps Pit for one, using his shield to block arrows is one example, TL can catch up to Pit even when he's gliding, and his fast aerials will make it difficult for Pit.
 

Coffee™

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I believe the real thing that could trouble Pit in the matchup is TL's speed, quick aerials, and projectiles (yes, even if Pit gots reflectors). TL outcamps Pit for one, using his shield to block arrows is one example, TL can catch up to Pit even when he's gliding, and his fast aerials will make it difficult for Pit.
TL cannot outcamp Pit. Pit's Arrows are faster and more accurate than any of TLs projectiles, and Pit can reflect projectiles while TL cannot.
 

Doctor X

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Pit's reflectors don't work on TL's projectiles. Bombs and boomerangs are sent into the ground and arrows are easily powershielded or cancelled out with a second arrow.
 

Admiral Pit

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TL cannot outcamp Pit. Pit's Arrows are faster and more accurate than any of TLs projectiles, and Pit can reflect projectiles while TL cannot.
It depends on how you look at it.
TL can spam arrows quicker than Pit, though have less Range and speed. TL could probably jump to extend the range a bit.
Bombs and boomerangs are not worth reflecting, though you could reflect a returning boomerang to make it hit TL.
 

teh_pwns_the

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Interesting read. Overall, I agree with 50:50. Both are speedy characters with solid projectile games. Pit is a better edge-guarder in my opinion, but Toon Link has greater range. And Pit's ledge game is just insane.
i disagree about tl having greater range, 2 reflectors + arguably best projectile in the game = better then 3 ranged weapons (even if they are used interchangably) also because a good pit will never let tl get his bow fully cahrged or charged enough to hit him due to arrows, unless he is bating it to reflect
 

AndrewCarlson

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i disagree about tl having greater range, 2 reflectors + arguably best projectile in the game = better then 3 ranged weapons (even if they are used interchangably) also because a good pit will never let tl get his bow fully cahrged or charged enough to hit him due to arrows, unless he is bating it to reflect
Agreed when it comes to projectiles, but I was referring to Toon Link's aerial game in particular.
 

AndrewCarlson

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Toon Link is better in every way. Except for recovery that is.
No. Long range, Pit has the advantage. Close range, Toon Link has a longer reach but Pit has faster attacks for the most part. Toon Link has more K.O. power in his aerials, but they're also slower and have more lag afterwards.
 

Luckay4Lyphe

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Guys cmon, what happened to this thread? Toon links have stepped it up in recent times like MJG and such. He placed really high at a Canadian national recently so what makes TL so good? He's got a crap ton of projectiles, more than us. What to do when he is spamming? Do we spam back or do we just powershield them because all of his projectiles are super slow?

Usmash works really nicely on TL. A lot of TL's like to zair to nair so if you shield that just dash and usmash when they try to retreat. Arrows can be as much of a problem as his projectiles are for us remember that.

Also TL is good at juggling us with bair and such. I think the best thing to do is DI away from him and get grounded. We probably lose the aerial fight, but grounded I think we win.

Some moves to watch out for on the ground are his usmash and that's pretty much it. His jab combo is exactly like ours because his sword gives him nice range and it has 3 hits. The second hit of our jab may be longer than his but idk for sure, I'd like to hear your guys' thoughts. TL users also like to do this gimmick dsmash where they do it at low percents and it sends you pretty far off the edge and slightly downwards as well. We can fly under the stage but just be wary of this.

In the air his bair and nair are really quick and can combo. Uair lasts long so watch out if he just lays an uair out there trying to kill you off the top. His fair is really strong and TL likes to get offstage kills with it. He can go very far offstage so be sure to dodge this move if you see him flying at you. Dair is a spike we all know this, but when not trying to spike TL will use it when he is hovering over your shield for a bit. IF you have good reaction then spotdodge this and he will have too much ending lag to do anything so it's a free grab or charged smash whatever you like.

Don't fsmash his shield when you're both at high percents. Fsmash isn't safe on block, he will just dash at you and usmash. Kingtoon did this to me in a set and I was salty at myself. His fsmash, the first hit does nothing but stun you for the second hit. If you DI the first hit you can escape the hit with knockback so DI up and behind him if you see this happening.

His recovery is pretty good. I'm looking to find ways to gimp him because he always makes it back to the ledge sometimes. What do you guys do? Lets discuss and stuff.

Toon Link is higher than us on the tier list guys, we can't let this runt be better than Pit. DISCUSS!!
 
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