Possible Changes to Ryu

[Swordmaster102]

Hello to anyone reading this!
I wrote some changes I would like to see done to Ryu because of him being outmatched against Ken’s kit and being overall the lesser character now. Most of the smash cast was buffed between games and I truly believe Ryu simply was reduced in strength. I’ve been watching a lot of the past pro Ryu mains and a large majority of them have dropped him because of the changes. Not to mention, the players who still enjoy the Ryu playstyle have mostly moved to Ken instead. Both Ryu and Ken should be equal, but with different strengths and weaknesses balancing it out.

Do know that this is all my opinion, so everyone has the right to disagree with it. Though, whether you agree or disagree, I would love to hear from you on what you guys think.———————————————————————
-Fix the trutatsu from turning around
(this issue can be avoided by just doing a quarter circle back, but this should be fixed so a true tatsu can be done out of sprint easier)

-Fix the c-stick to where if tilt-stick is active, only light attacks come out from it
(Some people have no issue with the way it is currently by simply gently moving the stick so a medium tilt will not come out, but the majority of Ryu players already are used to doing combos the old way. Screwing up a combo because you pressed the stick just slightly too hard can be problematic)

-Let tatsu have greater priority against projectiles allowing him to more reliably utilize it to go through ranged enemy attacks
(technique is prevalent in Street Fighter and it should be a reliable attack for reading if an opponent is going to throw out a projectile) (an example of a projectile I believe Ryu should go through is Samus’s charge shot and quick missiles)

-Medium d-tilt have slightly less knockback
(more consistent followups on floaties, tatsu, hadouken, run up grab, etc.)

-Light f-tilt (kick) have less knockback or more hit stun
(outside of extremely few situations, this move has no use and purpose. This could allow for more use for it and combo potential)

-Reduce n-air duration to 27 from 35 frames just like Ken’s
(this should allow Ryu to perform u-air drag downs out of a n-air like he could in sm4sh. Though, this tweak shouldn’t allow for massive n-air chains, but possibly a few links at lower percents. This is due since the short-hop aerial tech prevents frame perfect full-hop aerials. Reducing the n-air frames would also allow for a full-hop n-air into a falling b-air so that the b-air can come out on landing with precise timing hitting opponents)

-Give light u-tilt a slightly larger (possibly down and forward) hitbox
(I know some might say, “He wants to go back to the u-tilt spamming days of sm4sh,” but hold your horses. I’m not in favor of increasing the hitbox in all directions. Some might of encountered this, but the way Ultimate was built can cause some ridiculous circumstances where u-tilt wiffs. An example of this is if you successfully land a crumpling focus attack. If you dash forward and try to start a combo with u-tilt, the opponent’s character model could hold you back far enough to where the tilt completely misses. I’m not sure if this is character dependent, but I find this not good design. There could be other ways of fixing this small issue though, and if Ryu obtained this buff, so should Ken as well.)

-Let jab 1 cancel into medium d-tilt & Let light down tilt combo into jab
(this is one of the more unthought of changes that has crept into my head. I play SF as well, and I just can say that from a SF standpoint, these attacks should combo into another. In SFV as well as past games, this is basic bread-and-butters for Ryu. More can be thought of definitely, but this is a start)
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There are many other things I would like to change about Ryu and the game in general besides these, though some be impractical and possibly just make him worse. One being I wish Ryu’s close side light tilt (the sideward punch) was the solar plexus strike instead, and if axe kick could be used as an attack outside of just a throw move (his u-throw). I would also like to see the short-hop aerial tech set to optional from the settings.

 

[Shieldlesscap]

Ok, here's what I think of those changes:
1. Tatsu is a bug related to auto turnaround, it'll get patched. That said, to avoid it, add a slight pause before inputting QCB.
2. No, Tilt Stick should be able to do both, because heavy tilts do still have uses. That said, what they should do is make it so you can change sensitivity so that it's impossible to do Tilts or Smashes with the left stick and you can only do one. That way, Ryu/Ken players could use Smash Stick, never do Smashes with left Stick, and could do tilt spam combos without having to reset the stick to neutral after every hit.
3. FTilt can still combo into fair, at least as Ken (I'd assume it's the same as Ryu), so I disagree with the idea that THAT is how it should be buffed (although I wouldn't mind a hitstun buff). Instead, I think FTilt should have slightly more range so it works better to start combos. That said, I play Ken, who can actually combo into it, so idk how much a range increase would help Ryu.
4. Tatsu should be able to go through projectiles but only if you time it correctly.
5. Agreed, Ken's nair shouldn't be arbitrarily better than Ryu's.
6. Agree with the up tilt change although tbf you can also just do Jab cancel Shoryu or raw Shoryu.
7. I like the idea of Down Tilt comboing into Jab, but as for Jab cancels, I feel like they should only be able to cancel into specials or at least moves based on specials because otherwise Ryu and Ken would be ****ing broken. That said, Jab cancel FSmash would make sense for Ryu since it's a special from SF.
8. I really like the idea of giving him solar plexus strike and having it be able to cancel into things. This could also cancel out of Jab tbh.

Also, I think Ryu's Shoryuken should have a knockback buff, Ken's should have a damage buff, and both of them should make you take more damage and knockback if you whiff them from the ground (like a Crush Counter)

 

[MordecaiSoup]

•IMHO, they should either shorten the duration of both tatsu's or increase priority due to the massive disadvantage Ryu goes into whether he gets stuffed by the anticipated projectile or by eating said proj and then continuing on for three years into the shielding enemy, only to get punished.
•I prefer this tilt stick to sm4sh Light tilt only
•Ryu's Nair is a bit of a different move with a bit of an altered usage from what I've found. It seems less of an open attack move and more of a punish tool. For instance. SH or FH into long falling Nair has a sum 0 (iirc) horizontal knockback at kill percents leading into f-smash for a guarantee kill combo around 70.
• I have a theory that they designed Ryu more like his sf4 self with logical hitboxes, so I'm okay with not being able to hit someone who is laying on their face with my elbow which is wagging above my head, haha
• Honestly I would LOVE if they incorporated more true SF combos into ultimate. Imo they designed/modified Ryu to be more true to form as a port from SF but could use a few tweaks to their model. He's a shoto who can't zone very well because of the ridiculously high endlag on a single hadoken. He is a bait and punish character who can't combo well enough in current form when he does get those sweet footsie whiff plays. And his knockback ought to be higher on his kill moves such as shoryu since he isn't the dmg dealing half of the pair. Ken fits into the smash meta better currently because he's a slightly more technical version of the mindless spam that embodies the smash franchise. For Ryu to make his mark as the world traveler he needs an even stricter abidding to his SF origin.
Just my humble thoughts.

 

[Swordmaster102]

First off, thanks to the both of you!

•IMHO, they should either shorten the duration of both tatsu's or increase priority due to the massive disadvantage Ryu goes into whether he gets stuffed by the anticipated projectile or by eating said proj and then continuing on for three years into the shielding enemy, only to get punished.
•I prefer this tilt stick to sm4sh Light tilt only
•Ryu's Nair is a bit of a different move with a bit of an altered usage from what I've found. It seems less of an open attack move and more of a punish tool. For instance. SH or FH into long falling Nair has a sum 0 (iirc) horizontal knockback at kill percents leading into f-smash for a guarantee kill combo around 70.
• I have a theory that they designed Ryu more like his sf4 self with logical hitboxes, so I'm okay with not being able to hit someone who is laying on their face with my elbow which is wagging above my head, haha
• Honestly I would LOVE if they incorporated more true SF combos into ultimate. Imo they designed/modified Ryu to be more true to form as a port from SF but could use a few tweaks to their model. He's a shoto who can't zone very well because of the ridiculously high endlag on a single hadoken. He is a bait and punish character who can't combo well enough in current form when he does get those sweet footsie whiff plays. And his knockback ought to be higher on his kill moves such as shoryu since he isn't the dmg dealing half of the pair. Ken fits into the smash meta better currently because he's a slightly more technical version of the mindless spam that embodies the smash franchise. For Ryu to make his mark as the world traveler he needs an even stricter abidding to his SF origin.
Just my humble thoughts.

Soup I like what you had to say about possibly shortening the duration on tatsu overall. The design I believe that Ryu is based off of in smash is a cross between street fighter 2 and 4, so that’s why the tatsu travels so far and long. In SF2, heavy tatsu does a total of 5 revolutions. Over the course of many games, Capcom gradually decreased how many revolutions he does. His heavy tatsu in SF4 does 4 revolutions, and in SFV, 3. I would definitely rather prefer the shorter tatsu, but it’s pretty opinionated. Having a shorter one would leave you less open for punish, but at the same time, you wouldn’t travel far since the stages are quite large. That might just make it harder to go thru projectiles for a punish.
As of the n-air, even in sm4sh when it was 27 frames you could do that. Reducing the frames wouldn’t damage him in any way, it would only buff his air game. Ken can even do the landing n-air to side smash.
When I mentioned after a FA uptilt missing, the uptilt can still line up hight-wise with most of the cast. It’s the character model that can sometimes push you back slightly to where it ridiculously wiffs.
Now I think about it, a reduction in hadoken cooldown would definitely be nice. That would help his spacing game. I think it’s quite funny that shoryu in SF is the perfect anti-air but in smash that’s simply not the case. His medium uptilt does the job extremely well. If I am correct, it’s so good actually that if you time it right, the hit box can hit a Cloud out of his d-air.

 

[Mistah777]

Ok, here's what I think of those changes:
1. Tatsu is a bug related to auto turnaround, it'll get patched. That said, to avoid it, add a slight pause before inputting QCB.
2. No, Tilt Stick should be able to do both, because heavy tilts do still have uses. That said, what they should do is make it so you can change sensitivity so that it's impossible to do Tilts or Smashes with the left stick and you can only do one. That way, Ryu/Ken players could use Smash Stick, never do Smashes with left Stick, and could do tilt spam combos without having to reset the stick to neutral after every hit.
3. FTilt can still combo into fair, at least as Ken (I'd assume it's the same as Ryu), so I disagree with the idea that THAT is how it should be buffed (although I wouldn't mind a hitstun buff). Instead, I think FTilt should have slightly more range so it works better to start combos. That said, I play Ken, who can actually combo into it, so idk how much a range increase would help Ryu.
4. Tatsu should be able to go through projectiles but only if you time it correctly.
5. Agreed, Ken's nair shouldn't be arbitrarily better than Ryu's.
6. Agree with the up tilt change although tbf you can also just do Jab cancel Shoryu or raw Shoryu.
7. I like the idea of Down Tilt comboing into Jab, but as for Jab cancels, I feel like they should only be able to cancel into specials or at least moves based on specials because otherwise Ryu and Ken would be ****ing broken. That said, Jab cancel FSmash would make sense for Ryu since it's a special from SF.
8. I really like the idea of giving him solar plexus strike and having it be able to cancel into things. This could also cancel out of Jab tbh.

Also, I think Ryu's Shoryuken should have a knockback buff, Ken's should have a damage buff, and both of them should make you take more damage and knockback if you whiff them from the ground (like a Crush Counter)

About your caution with canceling jabs into anything, I don’t think at all they’d be broken. Right now they are solidly mid tier with disadvantage to disjoints. This buff might make them high tier but definitely not broken, and even then only broken because of combo technique, not just the length and invincibility of hitboxes

 

[Hobo-jho1992]

1st off, i would like to go on record, saying I'm more of a Ken Masters kinda guy over Ryu, but the wandering warrior is in desperate need of some adjustments, now that i saw what the Hungry Wolf brought to the table.

- Replace his donkey kick (fwd-smash) with his Street Fighter Alpha 3 solar plexus strike. A 2-hit elbow strike to the gut?!? Hell, i would even take it up a notch, making it cancelable!! The donkey kick is a special attack in the SF series that should be acknowledged as a an input, not a smash attack. Comboing into this is something I've wanted to do for a long time, like the rest of the specials he has.

- Nerf the damage and knockback of his tatsu, and contribute that same energy to his hadouken! His best tatsu was either his SFA3 or 3rd strike versions IMHO. Sure, its potent, but Ryu doesn't have the greatest compared to the rest of the tatsu users. Ryu is highly known for his punches, hadouken, and shoryuken techniques, lets capitalize on that...

- Scrap Shakunetsu, invite Baku hadouken, but as an EX. Let's face it, the shoto's fireball techniques are trash, when it comes to smash!! Imho, the only thing they're really useful for is disrupting an offensive opponent's rhythm/momentum. Otherwise, it lacks kill power, hit stun, and knock back!! That mvc3 explosive hadouken is something that Masahiro Sakurai should keep an eye out for in the future!

- Denjin Hadouken. If Baku Hadouken isn't a good idea, then as an EX, the unblockable fireball that is also known to stun opponents is a must!

- Shinku Tatsumaki! A multi-hit EX that i personally saw him obtaining before any other technique, Adding this move to Sma5h would make opponents think twice on escaping or rushing him.

- Shin Shoryuken. This move is literally the most flashy finishing technique Ryu has that i could possibly think of adding to Sma5h! Why add the shotos if they're not gonna be at the peak of their abilities??

- FADC (Focus Attack Dash Cancel) Yet another unique mechanic the shotos weren't able to bring to Sma5h. If the focus attack exists and is able to be cancelled out of it, why isn't it an option to cancel out of normals or specials with this procedure?? Please make this happen In Nintendo/Sakurai.