Punishing grabs and dash attacks

[SiriusPika]

Hi guys. So I've recently started playing Villager more cause I think he's a really fun character. However, I seem to struggle against really fast characters. For example, my friend plays Sonic, and he always seems to get in on me and grabs. Yeah, I know. I need to keep him out with Short hop Fairs. But it's really hard to wall him out because he's so fast. And he's not that tall, which also makes it difficult to do the short hop Fairs. So yeah, I guess the Fairs are just something I need to work on.

But until I get that down, what options do I have to prevent the grab? Normally, with other characters, I'll read the grab attempt, spot dodge, and grab them back. But with Villager, his grab is really slow, so I can't do that. The only other option I can think of is to spot dodge, and neutral air. But when I try that, it seems too slow also. Seems like I can't do the neutral air until the spot dodge ends, and by then, my friend just grabs again and gets me. Should the neutral air be working? Or am I doing something wrong? Is this the wrong option? What other options do I have in that situation?

Another thing I find hard to punish is dash attacks where the character goes by you. Like with Sonic's dash attack, he'll go right by me. Sure, he has lag after the dash attack, but I find that Villager is too slow to punish it. What should I be doing to punish his dash attack after he goes by me?

 

[Antonykun]

Hi guys. So I've recently started playing Villager more cause I think he's a really fun character. However, I seem to struggle against really fast characters. For example, my friend plays Sonic, and he always seems to get in on me and grabs. Yeah, I know. I need to keep him out with Short hop Fairs. But it's really hard to wall him out because he's so fast. And he's not that tall, which also makes it difficult to do the short hop Fairs. So yeah, I guess the Fairs are just something I need to work on.

But until I get that down, what options do I have to prevent the grab? Normally, with other characters, I'll read the grab attempt, spot dodge, and grab them back. But with Villager, his grab is really slow, so I can't do that. The only other option I can think of is to spot dodge, and neutral air. But when I try that, it seems too slow also. Seems like I can't do the neutral air until the spot dodge ends, and by then, my friend just grabs again and gets me. Should the neutral air be working? Or am I doing something wrong? Is this the wrong option? What other options do I have in that situation?

Another thing I find hard to punish is dash attacks where the character goes by you. Like with Sonic's dash attack, he'll go right by me. Sure, he has lag after the dash attack, but I find that Villager is too slow to punish it. What should I be doing to punish his dash attack after he goes by me?

my best guess?
try to roll forward when he runs at you, your friend will eventually learn to pivot F-smash but until then that should make getting dash grabbed a lot harder

to punish dash attack: let go of shield and f-tilt him in his new direction

 

[Tommy - S.N.]

Hi guys. So I've recently started playing Villager more cause I think he's a really fun character. However, I seem to struggle against really fast characters. For example, my friend plays Sonic, and he always seems to get in on me and grabs. Yeah, I know. I need to keep him out with Short hop Fairs. But it's really hard to wall him out because he's so fast. And he's not that tall, which also makes it difficult to do the short hop Fairs. So yeah, I guess the Fairs are just something I need to work on.

But until I get that down, what options do I have to prevent the grab? Normally, with other characters, I'll read the grab attempt, spot dodge, and grab them back. But with Villager, his grab is really slow, so I can't do that. The only other option I can think of is to spot dodge, and neutral air. But when I try that, it seems too slow also. Seems like I can't do the neutral air until the spot dodge ends, and by then, my friend just grabs again and gets me. Should the neutral air be working? Or am I doing something wrong? Is this the wrong option? What other options do I have in that situation?

Another thing I find hard to punish is dash attacks where the character goes by you. Like with Sonic's dash attack, he'll go right by me. Sure, he has lag after the dash attack, but I find that Villager is too slow to punish it. What should I be doing to punish his dash attack after he goes by me?

SH Dair is one of Villagers best tools in the MU, lingering hitboxes threaten Sonic in general but the fact that you can approach and retreat with it (and it autocancels) is just so good.

 

[Mtn64]

Empty hop, I call on thee!
No really, emptyhopping, or baiting it out by holding shield and grabbing. Don't mindlessly fair, always check where you are, if you think he will dash in, put out FTilt dtilt or DAir!

 

[SiriusPika]

Thanks for the suggestions guys! Didn't think to do down air. Will try that.

my best guess?
try to roll forward when he runs at you, your friend will eventually learn to pivot F-smash but until then that should make getting dash grabbed a lot harder

to punish dash attack: let go of shield and f-tilt him in his new direction

Cool, I will try that.

For the f-tilt though, wouldn't he be too far away after the dash attack for the f-tilt to connect?

 

[verbatim]

I'd imagine that if he starts the dash attack close enough to you to be safe on the other side, you can just ftilt him out of the original dash attack.

Also consider short hop nair (especially OoS), it's a great get out of jail free card that beats a lot of stuff and is generally SIGNIFICANTLY safer to throw out than fair.

Jab is also amazing (OoS or otherwise) but I don't know how it interacts with Sonic's Dash Attack.

 

[Tommy - S.N.]

Thanks for the suggestions guys! Didn't think to do down air. Will try that.



Cool, I will try that.

For the f-tilt though, wouldn't he be too far away after the dash attack for the f-tilt to connect?

GL man.

 

[Moosseff]

Dair and emptyhoping are two ways you can avoid sonics approaches. Another thing you can do is roll past him a few times, sure not EVERY time but you should still do it.

 

[Deezxnutz]

Since we're on the subject of punishing what can you punish with against Mario's Dsmash and Fsmash? I feel like I can only get an Ftilt because every time I shield grab he manages to spot dodge in time.

 

[MeteorSpike]

playing villager, you really have to discard the commonplace habits of shield-grabbing and shield-drop-into-dash-grabbing out of mind
i think these're villager's best responses to a successfully blocked attack:
-
shield drop into jab or f.tilt
jab is somewhat low-reward, but fast, reliable, and is a decent way to pressure enemy shields, which is a luxury villager normally lacks with his risky grabs
f.tilt is a basic but nonetheless effective punish for whenever jab's range is one fist short (i had to)

-cancelling shield with a jump into n.air
this is nice for those questionably tight situations, where you're unsure whether your opponent will end up to the left or right of you
if they're that close, n.air removes all guesswork...better still, n.air's faf can happen before you can even land from so much as a shorthop, so you can perform another aerial action if you want if n.air is done quick enough

-shield drop into dash (run away)
not so much as a "direct" punish, but for villager, sometimes the best option is backing off and fleeing
with a moveset like his, sometimes it will greatly benefit you if you can learn to be content with this
conveniently enough, blocking something means you'll likely have frame advantage against the opponent, and can act well before they can
one example i like to do with this after blocking something heavy (say, mac's f.smash, which has too much shield stun and pushback to reliably punish) is to run away, and once i'm at a safe distance like beyond roll's length, i can go for something like a pivot side.b and set-up a lloid
by the point i can do this much, i've already turned the situation into an even greater advantage than before