Roy's Defensive Stratagies

[ike_love]

I'm just trying to get an idea about how the Roy players view defense, especially Roy's character specific strategies. For instance we all know that you can shield an attack and then wave dash out of shield, but how does that knowledge help Roy? That was just one example...what I'm really trying to find an answer to is how do you take the defensive techniques in this game and apply them to Roy. If you didn't already know, Roy is one of the easiest, if not hands-down the easiest, characters to combo, so not getting hit and not being in a position where any option you take leads to getting hit should be the number one priority when playing with Roy.

Also, if you don't think that you have anything relevant to say or if you don't think you're good enough to speak up, just get that out of your mind when posting. You can say something that's for most situations wouldn't work or that wouldn't make much sense, and the worst thing that could happen is someone disputing you. That's how we learn and grow...by discussing things, so please don't flame anybody that you don't agree with. Instead state your views on the subject, and we can discuss the different options and ultimately figure out what's best for us on an individual basis. Hopefully you guys have more insight than me on the subject, because I'm free. :D

 

[SamusPoop]

Roy has an okay shield and wd so that is a fine tactic to say, but I feel you could add up-B(frame 9 nvm) onto a platform in some cases over a grab and i've heard things about side-B(hits frame 6 just you have to jump oos so just as slow or slower than a grab) oos. Maybe light shielding can push you far enough away from fox/falco's sheild pressure for you to escape and make it less of a threat like luigi can do.

Counter for sure could fit somewhere it lasts from 8-20 sadly compared to marth's 5-29 one. However counter still lasts fairly long something that should be abused when not 100% sure for timing.

Sadly roy is a bit slow attacking wise, so really you might just have to play him like fox in the idea that you have to abuse movement to really work as your defense unless you could make a chart of CC percents so you know when you could wall them out with fairs or what have you.

His faster falling speed is a great tool that might play for a nice platforming option opening offense which can work as defense. WD back d-tilt/grab might still be his best options by far no matter how you look at it

 

[darkoblivion12]

OoS options with roy are what i'm currently working on. right now, i've noticed i can sh fair OoS, which sucks, sh nair, which sucks, grab, which sucks vs good players, counter, which can get you *****, and reverse upB which is... meh.

btw, those options are usable, just not like with marth. marth's OoS is so much better than ours.

anyways, so what good options do we have? well... you can learn PS grab, which is a *****, so i don't recommend it, you can roll like a boss, or you can WD OoS and dtilt/fsmash.

here's another one, and this is gimmicky. DED can be JC'd if you do some cool stuff.

 

[AlienAllen]

Out of your B moves, which is the fastest out of shield?

 

[ike_love]

Thanks for quick responses you guys, I have some links that i'm going to post and hopefully get around to some frame stuff later on this evening. Again if the roy's are ever going to step their games up, it's going to take some great defense.

EDIT: Alright I'm done with marvel for now, now I can get back with you guys.

His faster falling speed is a great tool that might play for a nice platforming option opening offense which can work as defense.

I'm glad you mentioned using defense as a form of offense; I've heard it said that offense is the highest form of defense i.e. eliminating the threat. So if anybody knows of anything that can pose an unusually high threat to roy, instead of trying to strictly defend it, a good idea would be to look for that specific threat and be ready to react with the appropriate counter ( not talking about down b ) to get the opponent out of the habit of using that particular move.

here's another one, and this is gimmicky. DED can be JC'd if you do some cool stuff.

what exactly do you mean by jump canceling your ded? Do you mean jumping out of shield THEN ded'ing, or is there some secret technology that i'm not aware of?

Out of your B moves, which is the fastest out of shield?

I think that this may be a trick question, but to my limited knowledge Blazer ( up-b ) is roy's not only fastest b out of shield move fastest attack out of shield besides grab. Of course that doesn't necessarily mean that's him best move out of shield.

I found a thread about shield stun properties of different attacks. If you have trouble figuring out what to do after blocking a certain move this may help, although i think this guy may be a bit confused on the property of powershields.
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=111814&highlight=shield+stun

 

[Aar]

Master the patform hopping and wd and wl etc and out manuever your oppnt. you can dodge catch the whiff and pivot to fsmash! yay

 

[NewJerusalem]

Roy's movement is definitely the best way to keep his defense strong. Also putting pressure with your moves. (Not shield pressure) Zoning with some attacks and just generally out moving your opponent.

 

[exarch]

counter everything like a boss

:dealwithit:

 

[ike_love]

counter everything like a boss

:dealwithit:

Counter can actually really useful for making your opponent think twice about throwing out certain moves. I generally have two rules for countering the first being only counter moves that you see coming ( in other words don't guess ) 2. When and if you have to guess only do so if there's a good chance that the counter will kill.

Since the timing on Roy's counter is so tight, it's not just another move to throw out. But counter is definitely Roy's most either underutilized or misused move. It's what I would call high risk high reward, so you just have to decide which rewards are worth taking the risk of throwing it.

 

[KingClubber]

I love when the tune of this thread turns around. LOL

- Counter out of shield -

You do it like shine out of shield, meaning you don't wanna leave the ground, difference is you can't jump cancel counter. But if your doing it right you shouldn't have too.

-

I wonder if your going to use my "get them off the stage faster" strategy by using more flare blades, and f-tilts.

Which reminds me i can make a knockback chart for a Roy's attacks now if someone doesn't do it before me. But I really don't want to make a new thread so i'll post it here.

 

[exarch]

Real post:
DED OOS is usable, but removing my boosted DED by choice is something I never do. Roy's recovery is too fragile as is, and i find in practice, shield grabbing is usually just as effective as a DED OOS.

Rolling is pro. Roy's roll is long distance and time-wise, so you have to be careful. Duh.
WD OOS shield is really good too, and similar to the roll.

SHDair OOS is good, but has problems against CCers. Usually tips, so can set up for fsmash ko's at higher percents. Also can cause amusing crossups if you go from one side to the other with it.

First hit of DED is very good for outprioritizing virtually any approach in the game. A lot of the time, you should intercept an approach with DED rather than retreating to shield.

CC dtilt, CC grab. Both very important. And you might as well learn to smash di well too.

Counter is very usable, but does get misused a ton. Many aerials with a bit of startup can be shield-countered if you're looking for them. (Ganon fair/dair to name a couple.)

 

[ike_love]

I love when the tune of this thread turns around. LOL

- Counter out of shield -

You do it like shine out of shield, meaning you don't wanna leave the ground, difference is you can't jump cancel counter. But if your doing it right you shouldn't have too.

Yeah, countering out of shield can be tricky, because if you jump too early and get off the ground, the counter stops your upward momentum which usually puts you in poor placement for the counter to catch whatever attack was coming. So in order too get good placement you have just after the 6-frame jump start up, which can throw off your actual counter timing. I wouldn't recommend trying to do it after having your shield stunned just because of these reasons. Though it's definitely something that you should learn out of an empty shield, especially if you have an opponent that's trying to shield pressure that **** out of you.

I wonder if your going to use my "get them off the stage faster" strategy by using more flare blades, and f-tilts.

Which reminds me i can make a knockback chart for a Roy's attacks now if someone doesn't do it before me. But I really don't want to make a new thread so i'll post it here.

That's not really related to defense, so the better place to post the chart would be here...
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=45071

Rolling is pro. Roy's roll is long distance and time-wise, so you have to be careful. Duh.
WD OOS shield is really good too, and similar to the roll.

When I first started playing I ( like most everybody ) was like **** a wave dash, rolling is too good. Then I got out of the habit because I got bodied for it. There's this kind subliminal thing I had to where you start to assume because of the better movement options and roll-punishes that rolling is just one of the things you should NEVER do. But honestly, especially if you've already put your shield up, instead of doing an oos move or a desperation counter or whatever, throwing out that back roll ( forward roll is *** ) is your best option and will reset the situation as long as you don't do it every two seconds.

CC dtilt, CC grab. Both very important. And you might as well learn to smash di well too.

If you throw out an ill-advised dodge, Sometimes I'll keep holding down in order to crouch cancel the upcoming punish. And just in case you didn't know, you can CC out ANY of your moves, even if you're in the middle of throwing one, as long as your feet are on the ground and you're holding down. This is probably common knowledge, but I've been playing this game for close too seven years and never knew that 'till recently, lol ( feel free to flame *****es ).