Roy's Ftilt

[2-Tone]

Ok, so I enjoy this move. I like the range, the speed, and the kill potential. However, where it seems to fall short is setups and usefulness in combos. Any situation I've found where it seems viable, I realize that there are much better options (fsmash, Dtilt, etc.). I like the idea of edgeguarding spacies over-b recoveries with it, but once again, dtilt/neutral A works just as well if not better. Mostly I've used it simply for mixups and zoning. I guess what I'm saying is, great move, but I feel as though it loses out to the rest of his moveset as far as usefulness. Two cents?

 

[VishapSlayer]

The biggest problem I've found with the move is its ending lag, but besides that, I think it's one of the best things to happen to Roy.

I most often use it for combo stringing when a enemy with a faster fall speed DI's away from your Fair - they would fall in a perfect Dtilt location, if it didn't happen to be for the DI. But Ftilt's range, perfect sweetspot location in this instance, and the fact that it can be angled down just allows for more damage. (I think those three things are the best parts about the ftilt ^u^ )
Of course, this is an option on the more lower-percent side. You'd definitely want to be familiar with what specific move to string with another in an appropriate situation.

Oh yeah, down-angled ftilt edgeguards can work too, if the timing's on point. The last thing the enemy needs when trying to sweetspot the ledge is the Sword of Seals flying at their face.

 

[2-Tone]

I haven't experimented much with angling it for an edgeguard. Charge-b and dilt-fsmash works just fine on someone who can't sweetspot. However, if ftilt hits below the stage, that's fantastic. I'll have to give it a try. And, yes, I agree about the ending lag. If you're trying to hit with the sweetspot of the sword and are met with a shield, prepare to be grabbed and/or wd out-of-shield-what have you.

Also, yes, low percents are a great time for it. A poorly DI'd back-throw on a mid to heavy weight character sets it up perfectly. Also, sour-spotting it against recoveries like Ike's, which is difficult to edgeguard w/o projectiles, is effective, too.

For the most part, I still use it a lot, but every now and again I forget it even exists b/c there are so many other earth-shattering options.

 

[Thane of Blue Flames]

FTilt is actually really great for combos. A lot of my juggle strings end up with opponents DI'ing away and I can hit them with FTilt before the hit the ground. If I went for an FSmash, they would have a chance to tech. I've gotten a lot of missed tech follow-ups with a surprise FTilt as well, and in one hilarious case an airdodge SD from a person trying to tech.

It's good.

 

[JeezImSoBored]

f-throw f-tilt almost always connects. You can use it to get people off stage and go for an edgeguard situation. It also kills at high percents with the sweet spot, making it the fastet kill move on the ground (besides uptilt for killing upwards). It's also not bad for corner pressure situations where if u hit their shield, they'd fall to the ledge, or if they try to OOS they will get hit. In those situatioins, I'd imagine angled upward f-tilt would cover most options. Well, in those situations u can go for yolo F-smash too since it can't be punished. But i think just waiting for their shield to shrink and ftilt their OOS option on reaction will be much rewarding. F-smashing their shield and pushing them to the ledge allows them to reset the situation whereas waiting makes them unable to do ANYTHING if you get the spacing down.
(All of this of course is assuming the players have good ledge dashes so being on the ledge is not nearly as bad. )

F-tilt is also a move that can cover 2 tech options at once and is faster than f-smash, which is really good in the corner for more on-reaction punishes.

 

[A Revelation]

In my opinion this is one of his worst moves due to the fact he has other moves that outshine this completely.
I rather have the old F-tilt back, if I ever use this move, it's by accident.

 

[FlamingForce]

In my opinion this is one of his worst moves due to the fact he has other moves that outshine this completely.
I rather have the old F-tilt back, if I ever use this move, it's by accident.

I like how you dislike the move because his other options "outshine it completely" and then proceed to name his old ftilt which gets outshined by his other options even harder.

 

[Foxy K]

In my opinion this is one of his worst moves due to the fact he has other moves that outshine this completely.
I rather have the old F-tilt back, if I ever use this move, it's by accident.

Seriously? It's the best combination of speed and reach he has.

 

[Azureflames]

In my opinion this is one of his worst moves due to the fact he has other moves that outshine this completely.
I rather have the old F-tilt back, if I ever use this move, it's by accident.

Idk how you can possibly have this opinion about it. The speed and range of this move is incredible. Its great for zoning and careful spacing, plus the knockback is crazy for zoning people onto the edge/offstage

 

[bicth]

I usually only go to it for edgeguarding when they're dropping from above and as a kill move when I just can't get them any other way. It is a great move though. I love it.

 

[Brim]

Just the talk of this makes me wonder - when we're talking specifically about instances like this, since there's a few versions of the tilt (mostly since it can be angled up or down from the get-go) why don't we use numerics to indicate the preciseness of said-tilt?
Example: If I was saying I was using a forward tilt, but meant it was a down-forward tilt, it'd be a bit of a mouthful to say, so why not this?
Down-forward tilt -> A Tilt 3 (Think where your numerical keys are on the side of your keyboard when you use "Num Lock")
Up-forward tilt -> A Tilt 9
I just think it'd make things easier. But I'll wait for an expert to come prove me wrong.

 

[Brim]

Idk how you can possibly have this opinion about it. The speed and range of this move is incredible. Its great for zoning and careful spacing, plus the knockback is crazy for zoning people onto the edge/offstage

The knockback is amazing and the actual speed the attack comes out of is great. But, it is kind of a pain if they manage to avoid the damage - I'm not sure how many frames the animation takes to recline the arm and sword but to me it does feel like an awfully long time.

 

[bicth]

yeah, it's very easy to spot dodge and is then punishable by all except the slowest of smash attacks. it's only damaging for 3-4 frames (I think, visit Roy's frame data to be sure) and then has a very long phase where he is recovering.

 

[G13_Flux]

well most attacks in general are easy to punish with a spot dodge. theres far fewer out there that either offer the multi hit/lingering hitbox/speed to be able to stay that safe. i wouldnt exactly say that aspect makes the move not as good. if you space it correctly its actually hard to get that punish in for the opponent.

also, in regards to comboing with it another good thing about this move is that it sets directly up for tech chases on fast fallers. think of CF of fox that are known for their rushdown attributes with grabs and nairs. ftilts can literally cover their entire approach scheme. its range makes it quite hard to punish, and if they get hit by it, then they were just immediately put into tech chase position, which roy can do a hell of a lot of damage with. in conjunction with well placed and timed pivots, this move can be deadly. this move also is very integral in MUs that have projectile-less charaters. there are very few ground options that any character has that boast the range of this move as well as the speed (DDDs ftilt might be the only comparable one). like i can see the CF MU being easily in roys favor due to things like ftilt, fair, and nair, that are really hard for him to break through.

 

[Brim]

Not trying to deter the overall discussion-- but I'd still like to hear peoples opinions on my suggestion about labeling tilts.
--
Also, @ G13_Flux I don't think it's necessarily a bad move, but to me it really feels like a risk move, because as great as the spacing is, if they even manage to just shield / roll / dodge the attack you're incredibly vulnerable for almost anything, especially grab punishes. I mean, seriously every character seems to have the ability to grab punish. And, in regards to MUs I can definitely see where you're coming from in regards to your stance on the matter.

 

[FlashingFire]

The numbers could be kinda confusing as a label. It's clear enough when you say DED 1 that you mean the first hit of DED, but Ftilt 3? Ftilt downward and Ftilt upward convey the meaning well enough imo.

Anyway, as for the move itself, I used to think it was absolutely amazing. Nowadays I find that it's generally outclassed, but it has several very cool niche uses. It's a good spacing tool/poke in neutral, and if you Fthrow someone off the edge, Ftilt is probably the only guaranteed follow-up at low percents. It can also punish mistakes in situations where Fsmash would give the opponent time to shield, as well as snipe aerial approaches when angled upward.

However, whenever you consider Ftilt, also consider what other moves Roy could be using, since the move is lacking in combo potential and, to a certain extent, kill power. Fsmash and Dsmash offer greater KO potential at comparable speeds. Fthrow is better followed up by a tech chase, a regrab, dash attack, wavedash > Dtilt, or DACUS. Flare Blade (neutral B) reaches slightly below the ground, making it a fantastic edgeguarding move. And DED is also a good move for beating aerial approaches.

 

[bicth]

one of my favorite combos is dtilt to ftilt at low percentages. racks up damage pretty quickly. works very well on spacies.

 

[Brim]

The numbers could be kinda confusing as a label. It's clear enough when you say DED 1 that you mean the first hit of DED, but Ftilt 3? Ftilt downward and Ftilt upward convey the meaning well enough imo.

But it'd be more like this:
DED First Hit(as far as I know, you can't change the direction of the first hit in any way other than being turned in a different direction)
Second DED Hit 9 (to signify the hit with DED tilting upwards)
Third DED Hit 6 (Just standard forward hit with the DED)
Fourth DED Hit 4(I might be wrong on how many hits there are, so correct me if I'm wrong but this is just for argument's sake) - Turnaround Hit

Ugh, that was a mess to explain. I get it's confusing but, new ideas tend to be - well in this case it is.

 

[FlashingFire]

I thought we were just talking about Ftilt? I brought up DED terminology just to draw a comparison. DED has multiple hits, so there's enough context that you could figure out that DED 1 means the first hit, DED 2 means the second, DED 3 meanse the third, and DED 4 means the fourth. If you want to indicate direction, the convention Sethlon prefers is to use arrows on the keyboard (e.g. DED >>>^ is the normal combo but with the fourth hit upward).

My point is, there's no numerical context to Ftilt that would tell someone that Ftilt 9 means Ftilt angled upward. I, for one, wouldn't think that the numbers were used due to their positioning on a keypad and not any Smash-related concepts or visual indicators.

 

[Brim]

I thought we were just talking about Ftilt? I brought up DED terminology just to draw a comparison. DED has multiple hits, so there's enough context that you could figure out that DED 1 means the first hit, DED 2 means the second, DED 3 meanse the third, and DED 4 means the fourth. If you want to indicate direction, the convention Sethlon prefers is to use arrows on the keyboard (e.g. DED >>>^ is the normal combo but with the fourth hit upward).

My point is, there's no numerical context to Ftilt that would tell someone that Ftilt 9 means Ftilt angled upward. I, for one, wouldn't think that the numbers were used due to their positioning on a keypad and not any Smash-related concepts or visual indicators.

No, no, I was using it as an example. I mean using the numbers to signify more specifically how your stick is being pushed, it's just for preciseness and in my opinion just helps cut down on the needless amounts of explanation. It can be applied to DED or even specials, but since the A tilt is really the only one that is more "specific" it'd probably be the only one people would care about.
--
Besides, really my point is if you think about the positioning of your numbers on a keyboard below the button Num Lock it really works out. Example: Neutral A - A5 because it's in the center of all of it.
Forward A - A6 since it's to the right of your 5 button. Etc.
--
Guess I shouldn't be surprised though.

 

[TheNakedBear]

Personally I find the f-tilt extremely useful. Especially in situations where the opponent DI's a grab and is just out of the fsmash range. It's also good for an unexpected approach if it's combined with wavedashing, and it's great for hitting opponents when they are initially dropping through a platform to catch them off gaurd(slightly angled upward ftilt). Overall it gives Roy better spacing/zoning and is a great add since it balances him out and (in the matchup Roy vs Marth) gives you a longer reach then any of Marth's moves, especially that tipper.

 

[Azureflames]

• In terms of labeling an easy option could just be to use ^Ftilt, >Ftilt, and vFtilt.
• @ Brim It sounds like youre using it in moments when you and the other guy are standing still where spot dodging/rolling can happen. If thats the case i'd agree with you, I dont think i'd wanna use it then just cause of those reasons, but it can work if you're at longer range without getting punished cause if he rolls toward you just grab, away from you gives you time to just reset, spot dodge and coming at you would either be an aerial (which you can shield and counter with Nair or ^Ftilt him and trade damage. If he comes at you trying to grab instead of an aerial you could just spot dodge or just SH Fair or something. You're at a long enough distance to probably predict that kind of thing id think (i could be wrong, im just kind of going through hypotheticals in my head lol)
• I tend to use it more when me and my opponent are doing dash-dancing/mindgames, edgeguarding, catching people that short aerial approaches, or just using it in combos out of Dtilt (e.g. Dtilt>Fair>Ftilt)

 

[Brim]

@ Azureflames No, it's just in my experience it can be an approach move as well, it's not the best thing in the world, but hey, what some players do, what some players do. It's also fair to note even if you catch them landing back down in a manner that allows them to be vulnerable for even the slightest moment for you to exploit with the tilt, Smash players still have phenomenal block reflexes in-game - or otherwise.

 

[Kapapanerp]

I often find myself forgetting the move even exists. I think it would be interesting as a multi hit move similar to his up smash. It would make it harder to punish and it would be more efficient at zoning.

 

[2-Tone]

one of my favorite combos is dtilt to ftilt at low percentages. racks up damage pretty quickly. works very well on spacies.

This is also a good shield pressure tactic.

 

[A Revelation]

This is also a good shield pressure tactic.

I doubt it honestly , It's -21 on block iirc, I'll be editing this number if I am wrong. That's way more than enough time to get punished by the cast.

 

[2-Tone]

I doubt it honestly , It's -21 on block iirc, I'll be editing this number if I am wrong. That's way more than enough time to get punished by the cast.

Even if both moves are sour-spotted? I should have been more specific, I suppose. But it seems pretty safe by my observations.