da K.I.D.
Smash Hero
when does f smash kill fox. I assumed it was around 110. and we dont die to up smash until I think 98%. thats not really a 20-40% difference...
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Fixed the name.+1 for Fox isn't saying that it's easy for Fox, Rizk.
All I've been saying is that it's easier for Fox to KO. Which is true for most of Sonic's bad match ups, but extremely true for this one.
Also, Fox KOs Sonic earlier than 100% from usmash, I think.
@KID: All of our KO moves are dependent on stage positioning too. Fsmash may KO Fox at 98% or whatever from the edge of Final Destination, but it sure as hell won't on the opposite end. Fox's usmash doesn't really have that severe of a percentage distinction on his KO range. If you're at 95%-ish as Sonic on Final Destination, you can DI all you want, you're most likely KO'd if you get nailed with a fresh usmash.
Fox's Lasers aren't used much in this matchup except to force an approach.Sonic's are definatley making it seem like this MU is hard for Sonic and easy for Fox. Not the case, lasers are a no no in this MU. You're going to have to play close combat because Sonic's speed is so stupid it gives us a chance to get in like 2 lasers? And lasers are a huge part of Fox's game. Sonic dies from U-smash fresh at around 104%.
You're not going to convice me it isn't even.Guess that means my games with DEHF from MLG Dallas and my games vs. Gnes mean that Falco is = at worst, and Diddy is = or something?
Fox has the advantage, and you're not really going to convince me otherwise, so just stop.
1.Sonic dies from U-smash at 96% fresh with DI, Snake dies at 114% fresh with DI(Snake might be able to survive a bit more damage).Fox's Lasers aren't used much in this matchup except to force an approach.
Sonic dies at 88%-90% against Fox's usmash, it's Snake who dies at 104%, not Sonic.
Unless you meant w/ DI, even then we don't kill you when you DI till about 110% regardless of the fact that you're light.
Your Fastfalls while some times bad can be used for frame trap like aerials to grab. (ex. Uair autocancel ->grab to punish a baited airdodge)
Sonic's Aerial Accel is average at best, and our Dair sucks, meaning when we're above you, all we can do is Air Dodge or Spring, if we spring all you have to do is landcamp, if we airdodge it's a free grab.
Your airgame all together beats ours except for our Bair, which is slow mind you.(Unlike yours) Our Uair barely out ranges your dair, if not ties with it. (this only matters when you don't shorthop it)
You have nearly as good recovery as us, w/ your long distance firefox, foxcopter and phantasm(although yours is more predictable).
Looking at sheer KO options, if the matchup is played right, Fox should always be able to kill Sonic first considering your more reliable KO moves Bair, Uair, Usmash, Dsmash.
Espy beats MegaFox because he's flat out better and more experienced than him, if Sonic beat Fox then I'd be beating MegaFox's fox all day, instead I only snag wins off his Snake(due to experience w/ the MU). Also, MegaFox just hasn't played enough against Sonic to know the MU.
1. Lasers don't serve their purpose in this MU you moron. 20 lasers> Just a few. Is there something wrong with you? Do you know how important lasers are?LOL. Anyways Riz you're talking nonsense. you are faster than us mid range and you can still follow up with lasers easily. Just cuz you're not getting 20 lasers like other matchups doesnt mean lasers dont serve their purpose. We both rack damage. Although you have some more legit setups in my opinion (though we do have dtilt shenanigans on you). Of course we are fast but dont act like fox is some slow moron, you have movement AND attack speed. Ultimately like Espy said, you kill faster than we do. Plain and simple. You have one of the best vertical killing tools in the game. How does this equate to being even to you?
You dont go through the trouble we do to find a kill. Very few characters go through that heart ache, and because of that fact, you will ALWAYS have an edge unless we gain some guaranteed damage racking setups or magical gimping tech. I concur wholeheartedly with Espy. +1 Fox
EDIT: and to some extent sonic is underrated, but dont go thinking he has to be better than he is because Espy owns someone. You dont know how much effort us Sonic mains try to put into our character. And obviously you dont realize how skilled as a player Espy is. He is damn good period. So it should be of no surprise that Espy was owning. Let Espy play TKD, and after TKD learns the match up, if it goes even then perhaps you may have a valid argument. Until then look at the simple facts;
you kill better.
No, it comes out on 8. Our **** comes out on like 10 or something.It comes out frame 10.
http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=7065143&postcount=1Look at the frame data once again and come back.
Hits on Frame: 10
I don't have to.You're not going to convice me it isn't even.
You're not going to convice me it isn't even.
1.Sonic dies from U-smash at 96% fresh with DI, Snake dies at 114% fresh with DI(Snake might be able to survive a bit more damage).
I of course did say "Unless you mean w/ DI"
2.I've never seen a Fox combo U-air into a grab.
That's because it's not a combo, it's more or less a frame trap, basically either they take the uair, airdodge and get grabbed, or doublejump/upb only to be forced to remain in the air longer and have the situation reset.
3. Don't be predictable and dair or airdodge right infront of us?
If played right fox has the speed to ALWAYS be in front of Sonic's landing spot, landing basically becomes a game of rock paper scissors where Sonic's only benefit is that he gets safely back to the floor. It's an air tech chase, naturally though, Sonic can do it to Fox too though.
4. Our B-air is more awkward, your's isn't and you have better control of B-air than us. Yes ours is faster, doesn't mean it's better.
It's better in terms of KO reliability so long as you have the spacing mastered. Even if Sonic master's the spacing of his bair he still has to master the timing due to its slow speed.
5. Firefox sucks and it too predictable, especially in this MU, it's super punishable.
which is why you don't HAVE to use it, it's just an option.
1. Lasers don't serve their purpose in this MU you moron. 20 lasers> Just a few. Is there something wrong with you? Do you know how important lasers are?
I know this wasn't a response to my post, but you shouldn't be focusing on lasers unless you're a camp *****, to most Fox's lasers are just bonus damage+move refreshing, which are great, but not needed to win. Ever.
2.Best vertical kill move? So what, look at Ivysaur, Lucas, R.O.B. Nuff said.
while those kill earlier, they have nowhere near Fox's Usmash speed.
3. D-tilt combos into itself several times like I said. Plus, your U-throw at 0% to buffered U-tilt is a true combo, just throwing it out there.
just as your utilt chain can be SDI'd out of, so can our Dtilt. which is true, and that's great at 0%
everyone here seems to be missing the point of lasers, the MAIN purpose of them is to force the other character to approach
Fox's Lasers aren't used much in this matchup, except to force an approach.
[Collapse=More]Sonic dies at 88%-90% against Fox's usmash, it's Snake who dies at 104%, not Sonic.
Unless you meant w/ DI, even then we don't kill you when you DI till about 110% regardless of the fact that you're light.
Your Fastfalls while some times bad can be used for frame trap like aerials to grab. (ex. Uair autocancel ->grab to punish a baited airdodge)
Sonic's Aerial Accel is average at best, and our Dair sucks, meaning when we're above you, all we can do is Air Dodge or Spring, if we spring all you have to do is landcamp, if we airdodge it's a free grab.
Your airgame all together beats ours except for our Bair, which is slow mind you.(Unlike yours) Our Uair barely out ranges your dair, if not ties with it. (this only matters when you don't shorthop it)
You have nearly as good recovery as us, w/ your long distance firefox, foxcopter and phantasm(although yours is more predictable).
Looking at sheer KO options, if the matchup is played right, Fox should always be able to kill Sonic first considering your more reliable KO moves Bair, Uair, Usmash, Dsmash.
Espy beats MegaFox because he's flat out better and more experienced than him, if Sonic beat Fox then I'd be beating MegaFox's fox all day, instead I only snag wins off his Snake(due to experience w/ the MU). Also, MegaFox just hasn't played enough against Sonic to know the MU.[/Collapse]