Alfa
Smash Apprentice
Strike Wario's Weak Point For Massive Damage
Last Update: 15/12/2009
Last Major Update: ?
Next Planned Update: Mid January
Introduction:
(INTR)
Hello and welcome to the Wario compendium of death, "Strike Wario's Weak Point For Massive Damage!" This thread will soon be filled with a list of all the percents that characters kill Wario at, with and without DI/Momentum Canceling. Unfortunately, I'm not finished with this yet, and have only completed a few characters thus far, but I've found out that, rather than go through and test each character in training mode tediously, it is possible to use Project Smash Attacks to do this instead, a much quicker and more efficient way I would assume. And, yes, this is the same topic as the thread KrazyGlue posted a while ago, but he hasn't updated it with any of the data I've sent him, which I sent quite a while ago, so I decided to start this one in order to get my data out there. This is quite a lot of work, so if anyone can help out it would be greatly appreciated. I will also be posting links to this on other boards, so as to make sure that I have all the hitboxes for their character's attack's. Anyways, let’s begin!
NOTE: If you know any hitboxes that aren't listed on here, POST IT! I want to complete this whole thing, and it won't be possible without YOUR help. So post and help out if you can, please.
Table of Contents:
(TOCO)
This will serve as a way to quickly navigate the thread without having to scroll through giant slabs of text.
Introduction ----------- INTR
Table of Contents ----- TOCO
To Do List --------------TODO
Formatting --------------FRMT
The Data --------------- TDTA
-Meta Knight ----------- BRKN
-Snake ----------------- SNAK
-Marth ----------------- MARF
-Lucario ---------------- LCAR
Questions -------------- QUSS
Credits ----------------- CRED
To Do List:
(TODO)
This section will serve as a list of what characters have been done, which characters haven't been done, and a list of other, miscellaneous things. After characters, in brackets will be additional information about them, like whether or not they have been done with or without DI/Momentum Canceling (All for everything, DIMC for with/without DI/Momentum Canceling, and NDIMC for without DI/Momentum Canceling). If anyone wants to help out with finding out the DIMC for any characters, please make sure you know what DI and Momentum Canceling are, and that you are fairly good at both. You don't need to be perfect at DIMC to contribute to these sections, as it is just a general DIMC section, not 'perfect DI' as in KrazyGlue's thread.
Done:
Meta Knight (NDIMC) (Originally By KrazyGlue, Finished By Alfa)
Snake (NDIMC) (By Alfa)
Marth (NDIMC) (By Alfa)
Lucario (NDIMC) (0%, 100%) (By Alfa)
Coming up:
Game & Watch (Alfa)
Ganondorf *(Alfa)
Getting decent GC controllers (Alfa)
To Do:
All characters (DIMC)
'Quick Lists' of dangerous moves (moves that kill either early (<120% ?), or early for that character)
Everyone Else (All) (Too many to list)
Battlefield (All) (Maybe...)
Items (All) (Either everything, or just bike wheels + character items)
Meta Knight - Find out where the elusive and inconsistent 5% and 6% hitboxes are on his Nair.
Create an update section somewhere
LURK MOAR
Formatting:
(FRMT)
I first want to point out that all of the data collected currently shows only the percents Wario dies at on Final Destination, at the ledge of the stage, and the centre. The percents will be listed as:
Name of attack ------ Percent from centre of stage, standing/ Percent from edge of stage, wobbling
Some attacks may be given at asterisk (*) to indicate that the attack kills vertically (or that the horizontal boundaries of the stage have no impact on the percent Wario dies at from the edge), and Wario's location on the stage will not change the percent he dies at. Multiple asterisks(**, ***) may be given to some moves which mean that there is something special about the move/s, this will be explained at the bottom of the information on the character.
The percents listed for attacks will not exceed 400%, as opposed to KrazyGlue's 300%, as some people may find themselves involved in Sudden Deaths, or somehow living to ludicrous percents. If an attack exceeds 400%, then it will be shown as '>400%'. Also, things like 'Full Xsmash' mean a fully charged version of that move, and all edge percents are tested with Wario being in his wobble animation, except for B throw, which is tested both ways (both characters on ledge).
The Data:
(TDTA)
It begins...
Meta Knight:
(BRKN)
This is the first one. Thank KrazyGlue for doing this. Although I had to go through and finish it/add hitboxes and attacks left out.
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=247521
Final Destination (NDIMC)
Jab ---------------------------------------------- >400% / >400%
Ftilt**:
First Hit ----------------------------------------- > 400% / 328%
First Hit tippered* ------------------------------ >400%
Dtilt:
Dtilt close ---------------------------------------- 337% / 259%
Dtilt mid ------------------------------------------ 375% / 288%
Dtilt tippered ------------------------------------- >400% / 326%
Utilt* --------------------------------------------- 198%
Fsmash ------------------------------------------- 116% / 82%
Full Fsmash --------------------------------------- 77% / 52%
Dsmash (In front) -------------------------------- 133% / 89%
Dsmash (Behind) --------------------------------- 117% / 77%
Full Dsmash (In front)---------------------------- 93% / 58%
Full Dsmash (Behind) ----------------------------- 79% / 49%
Usmash* ------------------------------------------ 162%
Full Usmash* -------------------------------------- 118%
Dash Attack:
Dash Attack (Strong) ----------------------------- 246% / 212%
Dash Attack (Strong, reverse knockback)* ----- 246%
Dash Attack (Mid)* ------------------------------- 255%
Dash Attack (Weak)* ---------------------------- 277%
Nair:***
Nair (Strong) -------------------------------------- 133% / 94%
Nair (Weak) --------------------------------------- 235% / 175%
Fair ------------------------------------------------ 221% / 142%
Bair ------------------------------------------------ 182% / 128%
Dair ------------------------------------------------ 203% / 145%
Uair ------------------------------------------------ 207% / 178%
B*, **** ------------------------------------------- ~212%
FB***** ------------------------------------------- 309% / 119%
DB:*, ******
DB (In front)* ------------------------------------- 151%
DB (Behind)* -------------------------------------- 173%
UB* ------------------------------------------------ 145%
F throw --------------------------------------------- 247% / 241%
B throw --------------------------------------------- 211%
Wario on edge ------------------------------------- 290%
MK on edge ---------------------------------------- 135%
D throw --------------------------------------------- >400% / 367%
U throw* ------------------------------------------- 183%
Glide Attack* -------------------------------------- 136%
**: Unfortunately, there is no way to hit with all the hits of MK's Ftilt, as the first hit knocks Wario too far away, and none of the other hits have more range than the first, so I'm only going to use the first hit for this.
***: I have also found extra hitboxes in the Nair that do 5% and 6% (compared to the 7% on the weak hit, and 12% of the strong hit) however, I have not been able to hit with these hitboxes consistently (~6 times on the 6% one, ~5 times on the 5% one). For anyone interested, the hitboxes are somewhere around the end of the attack, however they are very weak, (kill at >250% in centre, >180% on edge) so finding these hitboxes is not a high priority.
****: The input for MK's B consisted of one press of B, and no other input, for the lowest amount of hits possible. Also, it seems MK's tornado has multiple final hitboxes on the last hit as there have been times when Wario has gone from 213%, to 218% and then been killed, and times when he has gone from 213% to 222% and survived, so I have stuck with KrazyGlue's original figure of 212%, despite there being times when Wario has lived on 212%.
*****: For the FB, killing from the centre was tested with MK standing on the edge of FD, and killing on the edge was tested by MK initiating the FB from the spot on the ground you reach after respawning. The FB was not influenced by the control stick at all. 6% was dealt each time. Also, for some reason, Wario only gets stuck in the FB if he is in the idle animation where he itches his rear. Oh, and for some reason, Wario gets killed vertically if MK use his FB from the edge, but horizontally if MK uses it from the centre, hence the large killing difference.
******: The hitboxes for DB are counted as which direction he faces when he reappears, not when he disappears, as he turns around in between.
Snake:
(SNAK)
NDIMC Done by me (Alfa).
Final Destination (NDIMC)
Jab:
All hits -------------------- 130% / 92%
Last hit only -------------- 142% / 90%
Ftilt:
All hits -------------------- 133% / 84%
Last hit only -------------- 141% / 93%
Dtilt* ---------------------- 141%
Utilt* ---------------------- 108%
Fsmash ------------------- 55% / 17%
Full Fsmash --------------- 25% / 0%
Dsmash* ------------------ 126%
Full Dsmash* ------------- 84%
Usmash* ------------------ 138%
Full Usmash*, ** --------- 138%
Dash Attack*:
Strong hit* ---------------- 171%
Weak hit* ----------------- 237%
Nair:
All hits -------------------- 114% / 73%
Last hit only: ------------- 115% / 76%
Fair* ---------------------- 140%
Bair:
Bair (Strong) ------------- 119% / 81%
Bair (Weak) -------------- 165% / 121%
Dair:
All hits -------------------- 83% / 47%
Last hit only --------------98% / 64%
Uair* ---------------------- 116%
B* -------------------------- 166%
FB:
Point Blank/Dropped ----- 256% / 184%
Range/Full Speed -------- 143% / 89%
DB* ------------------------ 99%
UB ------------------------- It doesn't kill
F throw -------------------- 224% / 135%
B throw -------------------- 203%
Wario on ledge ------------ 273%
Snake on ledge ----------- 131%
D throw -------------------- It doesn't kill
U throw* ------------------- 210%
!!!THE BOX!!! (Taunts) --- 360% / 247%
Final Smash* -------------- 99%
** Usmash charge only changes height of mortar shot, not knockback/damage.
Marth:
(MARF)
(Sorry there isn't a better picture, but I couldn't find any on halolz, I don't know any other sites for good pictures, and after looking at Google images, let me just say "What has been seen, cannot be unseen." *shudder* Oh, and safe search doesn't work. *shudder again*)
NDIMC Done by me (Alfa)
Final Destination (NDIMC)
Jab ------------------------------ >400% / >400%
Jab tippered -------------------- 370% / 274%
Ftilt ----------------------------- 265%/ 195%
Ftilt tippered ------------------ 161% / 113%
Dtilt ---------------------------- >400% / 312%
Dtilt tippered ------------------ 362% / 254%
Utilt*, ** ----------------------- 121%
Utilt tippered*, **------------- 141%
Fsmash ------------------------ 135% / 87%
Fsmash tippered -------------- 74% / 37%
Full Fsmash -------------------- 91% / 55%
Full Fsmash tippered ---------- 42% / 15%
Dsmash:
Front* -------------------------- 131%
Back ---------------------------- 162% / 135%
Dsmash tippered*:
Front* ------------------------- 111%
Back* -------------------------- 116%
Full Dsmash:
Front* ------------------------- 88%
Back --------------------------- 112% / 92%
Full Dsmash tippered*:
Front* ------------------------- 71%
Back* ------------------------- 75%
Usmash* ---------------------- 131%
Usmash tippered ------------- Doesn't hit standing Wario
Full Usmash* ----------------- 85%
Full Usmash tippered -------- Doesn't hit standing Wario
Dash Attack ------------------ 252% / 165%
Dash Attack tippered -------- 193% / 119%
Dash Attack hilt hit ---------- 301% / 220%
Nair***:
All hits*** --------------------- 212% / 145%
Last hit only*** --------------- 194% 133%
Nair tippered:
All hits ------------------------ I couldn't get this
Last hit only ------------------ 112% / 74%
Fair --------------------------- 224% / 158%
Fair tippered ----------------- 148% / 104%
Bair --------------------------- 176% / 128%
Bair tippered ----------------- 129% / 92%
Dair --------------------------- 203% / 148%
Dair tippered* ---------------- 197%
Uair*, ** ---------------------- 233%
Uair tippered*, ** ------------ 152%
B (8%) ------------------------ 195% / 141%
B tippered (8%) -------------- 165% / 122%
Full B body/hilt hit (18%) ---- 69% / 42%
Full B weak hit (22%) -------- 51% / 28%
Full B tippered (24%) ------- 43% / 22%
FB ----------------------------- At the end of this section
UB ----------------------------- 136% / 84%
F throw ------------------------ >400% / >400%
B throw ------------------------ >400% / >400%
D throw ------------------------ >400% / >400%
U throw ------------------------ 194%
Final Smash ------------------- 0% / 0%
** For Utilt/Uair to not tipper, you need to hit behind Marth, whereas they will tipper at the front.
*** Using the last hit of the Nair as opposed to all of them gives Wario a better initial angle of knockback.
Forward B
Note: I have included this move separately, due to the space required to properly explain it. I have listed damage done by each hit in the combo, so it is easier to work out how much damage you will be on by the time you are hit by the last hit.
First hit:
Forward(3%)
Forward tippered (4%)
Second hit:
Forward (3%)
Forward tippered (4%)
Up (3%)
Up tippered (4%)
Third hit:
Forward (4%)
Forward tippered (5%)
Down (4%)
Down tippered (5%)
Up (4%)
Up tippered (5%)
Fourth hit / Final hit:
(Last hit only)
Forward ------------- 161% / 107%
Forward tippered --- 125% / 82%
Down ---------------- 271% / ****
Down tippered ----- 187% / 120%
Up* ------------------ 146%
Up tippered* ------- 114%
****: Due to the timing of Marth's Forward B, and the range of the previous move being approximately the same as Marth's second last hit, which knocks the opponent out on high percents, I am unable to find the data for an untippered Forward B, on the ledge. Previously, I had abused the spawn time invincibility, timing my hits so as to happen just as the invincibility ended, however, there is not enough time to get Wario onto the edge, and use Marth's Forward B downwards, without tippering him. I someone has either someone else to help them, so as one person can move Wario into position, and the other Forward B, or if someone has the patience and time to attempt to test this by abusing the invincibility frames given by the star in the same way I did with spawn invincibility, then I would be thankful for your help. Although this data does not really matter, has Marth has many more, far superior ways of killing someone then using an untippered Down hit of the Forward B on high percents.
Lucario
(LCAR)
Note: Due to Lucario's power increasing the more he gets damaged (and the more stock he loses, but that's not listed here as training mode doesn't have stock. If you want the precise formulas/multipliers for Lucario, LURK MOAR. Go lurk the Lucario boards, it's somewhere on there, I've seen it before) I have decided to format this in a special way. First, like in the other character's data, it goes 'Move' ----------- 'Damage from centre' / 'Damage from edge', however with Lucario, from there it will continue as, ------------ ' Damage from centre at 100%' / 'Damage from edge at 100%' --------------- ' Damage from centre at 170%' / 'Damage from edge at 170%'. Lastly, Lucario's aura boost caps out at 170% for most moves, although some of the moves cap out a bit earlier (160% - 170% range), it is simpler to say Lucario caps out at 170%, hence why the third interval of percents Wario gets killed at is 170%.
NDIMC Done by me (Alfa)
Final Destination (NDIMC)
Jab:
All hits ----------------------- 327% / 267% ---------- 233% / 189% ---------- 191% / 154%
Last hit only ----------------- 331% / 283% ---------- 239% / 205% ---------- 198% / 164%
Ftilt -------------------------- 280% / 204% ---------- 188% / 135% ---------- 148% / 105%
Utilt* ------------------------ 221% ------------------- 155% ------------------- 126%
Dtilt ------------------------- 251% / 220% ----------- 174% 152% ---------- 140% / 122%
Fsmash --------------------- 184% / 134% ----------- 115% / 82% ---------- 86% / 60%
Fsmash tippered ----------- 162% / 118% ----------- 98% / 69% ------------ 71% / 48%
Full Fsmash ----------------- 132% / 95% ------------ 75% / 51% ------------ 50% / 31%
Full Fsmash tippered ------- 114% / 81% ------------ 61% / 39% ------------ 37% / 20%
Dsmash --------------------- 184% / 134% ----------- 115% / 82% ---------- 86% / 60%
Full Dsmash ----------------- 132% / 95% ------------ 75% / 51% ------------ 50% / 31%
Usmash* -------------------- 188% -------------------- 119% ------------------ 90%
Full Usmash* ---------------- 136% -------------------- 79% ------------------- 54%
Dash Attack: **
Dash Attack (Strong)* ----- 278%
Dash Attack (Weak) --------- >400% / >400%
Nair:
Nair (Strong) ---------------- 217% / 161% ------------ 142% / 104% -------- 110% / 78%
Nair (Weak) ----------------- 321% / 242% ------------ 223% / 168% -------- 181% / 135%
Fair -------------------------- >400% / 316% ---------- 309% / 230% -------- 256% / 190%
Dair -------------------------- 218% / 142% ----------- 144% / 91% ---------- 11% / 66%
Bair:
Bair (Strong) ---------------- 212% / 161% ----------- 137% / 102% --------- 106% / 77%
Bair (Weak) ----------------- 279% / 214% ----------- 188% / 143% --------- 155% / 113%
Uair* ------------------------ 227% --------------------- 155% ------------------ 122%
B:
Uncharged B ---------------- >400% / >400% -------- >400% / >400% ----- >400% / 348%
Full Charge B ---------------- 189% / 136% ------------ 114% / 79% ---------- 82% / 54%
FB:
FB (Grab) -------------------- 241% / 172% --------------157% / 106% --------- 120% / 81%
FB (Close hit) ---------------- 337% / 236% ------------ 226% / 157% -------- 180% / 123%
FB (Mid hit) ------------------ 366% / 258% ------------ 249% / 174% -------- 199% / 138%
FB (Tip hit) ------------------- 385% / 297% ------------ 265% / 203% -------- 214% / 163%
DB* --------------------------- 172% --------------------- 111% ----------------- 85%
UB ---------------------------- It doesn't kill
F throw ----------------------- 274% / 167% ------------- 184% / 109% -------- 146% / 84%
D throw* --------------------- >400% ------------------- >400% ----------------- >400%
B throw** ------------------- 199%
Lucario on ledge ------------ 132%
Wario on ledge ------------- 286%
U throw* -------------------- >400% ------------------- 302% ------------------ 250%
**: Both Dash Attack and B throw with Lucario are not affected by Lucario's Aura.
Questions
(QUSS)
This is a section I've set aside to answer any questions about this thread, the data, and anything else relevant.
I hope this gets finished
I'm also willing to help if you can tell me what to do
I am going to try to finish this, although it will take a while
Also, if you want to help, just pick any character, go into training mode with the Wario as CPU, set the Wario to control (so as to stop the CPU from DIing), and then hit Wario with every move your character has with Wario in the centre of Final Destination, seeing at what percents Wario will die of the edge/top of the screen, and not just get knocked off, and then fall down into the abyss. You can use the function which allows you to set the CPU to what ever damage you want, to narrow it down to the very first percent that Wario dies at. Once you've gone through and tested every attack from the centre of FD, move Wario on to the edge of FD so that he is in his wobbling animation, and then test it all again. It takes about 2 hours to do this for most characters, although some may take longe (such as Olimar with his five pikmin colours/strengths, meaning almost every attack would have to be tested 5 times).
Tips:
1. To get Wario out of spawn time invincibility quicker, without moving the control stick, as where Wario lands could affect the results, simply press shield, causing Wario to air dodge and leave the respawn platform. Note: Don't use aerials, as the landing lag could change the position Wario comes down in. This tip should apply to all characters who get tested for when they die, so other boards wanting to do this should take note.
2. To get Wario in his wobbling position quickly, you can either A) Have Wario dash at the edge, so when he finishes his dash animation he his in his wobbling animation. B) Use Fsmash when Wario is close to the edge, Wario pushes himself forward, so that he is in his wobble animation at the end of the Fsmash. There are other alternatives, but those are the best options.
3. When testing the percents Wario dies at from the edge, if you haven't killed Wario with an attack, it can be quicker to recovery with Wario first. Plus you get more practice.
4. Make sure you have tested all the hitboxes an attack has before moving on. We want to be as thorough as possible.
5. Take a brake every once in a while, even if it's just stuffing around with whatever character your using instead of testing, or going to grab a drink or something to eat. You don't have to get all the data in one sitting anyway, imagine having to do Lucario at 0%, 100%, and 170% in one sitting, you'd be there for 6 hours!
6. Make sure to tell me (Alfa) if you are going to do a character, I don't want any double ups, it would just waste everybody's time.
Credits
(CRED)
I'd like to thank the following people:
KrazyGlue: For starting the original thread of this, starting me on this work, and doing (most of) Meta Knight's kill percents on Wario.
Mario Frek: For telling me that all this could be done using PSA, rather than doing it the boring way which I have condemned myself to.
The Melbourne Smash Scene: You guys are AWESOME.
The Australian East Coast Smash Scene: Bring on Rocky.
The Wario Boards: Thanks for being awesome, and hopefully helping out with this.
Halolz.com: Thanks for the pictures.
Parents/Friends/Teachers/Anyone who influenced me in my life at all: I may not be here if it weren't for you, thanks.
Anyone one involved in making anything I used during this time: Thanks.
